Best place to buy LEDs in Aus?

[freddie]

What most people want to see i think freddie is complete grows / diary's from average Joe.

 Just about everyone on here is that . Just normal guys and girls looking to grow quality ganga for personal use . There are many many inspiring diary's on this site and just about every single one uses HPS  . I cant find any inspiring LED grows really . Some nice grows yes but nothing special .

When I can jump online and not have hunt for a great grow with leds from average joe i might look into it .

 

I am sure with the right panels , using  knowledge and growing experience  good results can be achieved . But most people starting out lack this and with the amount of cheap shit leds panels being sold most  with advertising spiels that just baffle you with bullshit, why would anyone fork out there hard earned bucks on em .

Its not that we all think leds are shit , just shit compared to HPS 

HPS is a no brainier really because it works , no if's buts or maybes .

There's about 30 grows by average Joe's linked from that last link I

posted. Pick just about any one of them. This for instance:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=185111&page=11

 

I am just an average personal grower. Indoors in my wardrobe with a 400w hps that I am not about to throw out. However growing in SE Qld in summer is not easy and I think LED's might be a good option.

 

I take your point about HPS being a no brainer. You certainly will get good results if you follow simple instructions. You can't say the same for LED's as they seem to differ so much, and there certainly seems to be a lot more to learn in terms of growing.

 

When I eventually decide what to get I will do a grow diary.

[Badseed77]

 

I am just an average personal grower. Indoors in my wardrobe with a 400w hps that I am not about to throw out. However growing in SE Qld in summer is not easy and I think LED's might be a good option.

 I just dont do it man . Stuff battling the heat .

Will keep an eye for your diary  freddie , keen to see led been  giving a good go .

I  dont have the time ,bucks or balls to do it my self

[jez1]

I just wanna put it out there that even though the glass just below the LED's doesn't get hot, they still do generate heat that is pumped out the fans on the other side.

 

They are far from a 'heatless' option. Whilst they do not generate as much heat as a hps, they will heat up a small tent or wardrobe a fair bit.

 

I have also seen more than my fair share of LED grow journals where everyone is saying "oh yeh the LED's are working great, that crop looks awesome!" when in reality, its half of what it would have been under real lights.

 

ps. I do own an LED light.

Edited January 29, 2014 by jez1

[PainMan]

Spot on Vostok.

You could have added that these anti LED posts are from people who have never even used one

 

Ferrethead, might I ask where you bought it from and how much did you payed for your LED ?

DISCLAIMER - I do not know everything. I'm staring out saying this. However I do know a fair amount about light and plants.

 

Science is science. 

 

It isn't really a good idea to judge LCD grow lights in general based on what you have seen done with the ones made 3 or 4 years ago (or crappy ones made today). LCDs have gone through massive technological changes. Frankly if you understand plant growth and photosynthesis, LCDs are really the *only* type of light (at the moment) that can put your power into photosynthesis, instead of into light that is for human eyesight. Humans do not see very well in blue and red light frequencies and we see the best in green (and some yellow). However plants can't use green worth spit, use yellow very poorly & lap up the red and blue.

 

First thing we need to realize is that plants are not humans. That lighting companies start out with the goal of making light for human vision, not for growing plants. *IF* they chooose to use a lighting tech for plant growth then they *might* work out a better spectrum for grow lights. However even when they do that they waste a hell of a lot of energy making light that plants cannot use, because they did not start out trying to make only specific frequencies of light.

 

It also sucks that most lights only give you WATTS, which tells you how much energy the device eats, but not how much light they make.

Lumens tell you how well a HUMAN can see by that light. However humans see really well in green light which plants do not use.  A high lumen light can be useless for plants, whereas a great plant light can look very dim to the human eye, because it makes frequencies of light that we perceive as being dim.

 

The PAR rating is the only one that tells you about plant growth and unfortunately that is not always easy to find.

 

 

 

We really need to get a handle on the fact that plants use certain pieces of the spectrum far more than others. However until the H4 flourescents and the CFs got far better, most groweres only used HPS. Not understanding PAR, they had only watts (and maybe lumens) to compare one light to another.  PAR is (Photosynthetic Active Radiation); the part of the light spectrum that plants can use. Here is a chart of PAR.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Par_action_spectrum.gif/220px-Par_action_spectrum.gif

 

See that low dip in the middle between 500nm and 600nm? That is where the yellow and green light spectrum lies.  This is also the kid of light that most HPS bulbs make more than anythign else (up yo 90% of the light they make is unusable by plants). Now here to compare with it, is the spectrum from a NORMAL nice quality HPS light (a HiLux Gro from USHIO America Inc). This light has a PAR of 1,150 which is nothing to sneeze at, but check out the spectrum

 

http://howtogrowmarijuana.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/hor-hilux-hpschart.jpg

 

See that big yellow spike and the green one next to it? That is wasted power. This isn't a garbage cheap light and it still has a nasty piece of unusable spectrum. That means a waste of electricity (and carbon footprint and cash).

 

Metal halides make a better specrum but are less efficient. This is the spectrum of an expensive Hortilux Blue metal halide blub.

 

http://howtogrowmarijuana.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Hortilux%20blue.jpg

 

A 400 watt Metal-Halide Hortilux blue hs a par of 148.

 

All this led to experiments in the late 70s and early 80s. People wanted to save money and get good result, WITHOUT having to spend a lot on expensive bulbs. So they started doing serious experiments.  The results were amazing. Due to the fact that what you NEED is a lot of inexpesivly produced spectrum in the right places, it was found that using a whole lot of T8 fluorescent tubes to run a sea of green, got you far more KG of flowers per meter watt of grow space (and therefor per dollar spent on it) than any other method around (at that time).

 

When T5's came out (especially the GHO ones with special over-driven ballasts) the change was to go over whichever T5s you could best afford. This also has the advantage of NOT being very very hot,.

 

I have grown under HPS and you have to keep your plants about 16 inches form them in oder to not burn the. The inverse square law is a bitch but ot get closer up you have to buy ungodly expensive (to buy AND to run) cooling system for those lights. ON teh oterh nad you can put a plant TOUCHING a T8 and it just makes more plant. And during all of this time most growers STILL stuck with HPS due to the mythology of "penetration" (a thing few people really understood but it seems everyone wants to talk about). 

 

* All light is subject to the inverse square law no matter what technology makes it.

* although blue light bounces a lot more, the red ones make the plant want to flower. A blue only light system produces a lot less (and smaller) flowers.

* the best blue producing lights have a very low PAR, whci means a lot more electricity (and fixtures) are needed to get much of that light (except for the ungodly expensive induction blue lights which are hard to even find)

 

So if you really want more penetration just put T8s (or VHO T5s) on the sides of your grow area walls.

 

Then electrical prices got annoying and people started to use CF bulbs. Here is a GE 6500 CFL spectrum :

 

http://howtogrowmarijuana.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/GE-6500k-CFL-grow-light.jpg

 

* note that we still have very little red light (??flowers??) and too much green and yellow spectrum (wasted energy).

 

Even though LCDs use about the same energy as Flourescents do, the LCDs can target the exact spectrum you want.  So - if you have the cash for a good quality dedicated spectrum LCD system (only reds and blues) the results are quite good and the power bill is a lot less (and avoid all the ones that say that they are full spectrum) . It takes a lot of self education to not get shafted when buying LCD system though. You really want "on chip" lights in the right frequencies from a brand that has a good reputation and a very long solid warranty.

 

On the other hand, even with all that dedicated growth spectrum, you cannot just swap out the tubes (or bulbs) on an LCD system in teh way you can with other lights. Good LCD grow lights are wired to the fixture. When they die, they just die and you must buy a new one.

 

 

[grow_king]

Check out grow northern led, tried and proven results with up to 300g dried a plant on dutch passion autos. There new model will be released in a few weeks and is due to reshape led horticulture lighting. Rumoured 75w per panel and uses some secret cooling tech yet to be revealed. IMO If dutch passion has partnered with these guys then they are surely the ones to watch..

[Midget]

are you serious?... grow northern are rebranded chinese junk, "Cidly" infact.....they have a proven track record... for failing. Ill give you that...... your analogy of DP teaming up with them means nothing too... Subcool pushes Lush FFS...they are China rebrands too...

 

Grow northern wont be reshaping the horticultural lighting industry... aint happening...you sound like a marketing guy.....

 

Do you have a link to any information on there new release?... how did you hear about these rumours?

Edited July 24, 2014 by Midget

[haze420mist]

DISCLAIMER - I do not know everything. I'm staring out saying this. However I do know a fair amount about light and plants.

Science is science.

It isn't really a good idea to judge LCD grow lights in general based on what you have seen done with the ones made 3 or 4 years ago (or crappy ones made today). LCDs have gone through massive technological changes. Frankly if you understand plant growth and photosynthesis, LCDs are really the *only* type of light (at the moment) that can put your power into photosynthesis, instead of into light that is for human eyesight. Humans do not see very well in blue and red light frequencies and we see the best in green (and some yellow). However plants can't use green worth spit, use yellow very poorly & lap up the red and blue.

First thing we need to realize is that plants are not humans. That lighting companies start out with the goal of making light for human vision, not for growing plants. *IF* they chooose to use a lighting tech for plant growth then they *might* work out a better spectrum for grow lights. However even when they do that they waste a hell of a lot of energy making light that plants cannot use, because they did not start out trying to make only specific frequencies of light.

 

It also sucks that most lights only give you WATTS, which tells you how much energy the device eats, but not how much light they make.

Lumens tell you how well a HUMAN can see by that light. However humans see really well in green light which plants do not use. A high lumen light can be useless for plants, whereas a great plant light can look very dim to the human eye, because it makes frequencies of light that we perceive as being dim.

The PAR rating is the only one that tells you about plant growth and unfortunately that is not always easy to find.

We really need to get a handle on the fact that plants use certain pieces of the spectrum far more than others. However until the H4 flourescents and the CFs got far better, most groweres only used HPS. Not understanding PAR, they had only watts (and maybe lumens) to compare one light to another. PAR is (Photosynthetic Active Radiation); the part of the light spectrum that plants can use. Here is a chart of PAR.http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Par_action_spectrum.gif/220px-Par_action_spectrum.gif

See that low dip in the middle between 500nm and 600nm? That is where the yellow and green light spectrum lies. This is also the kid of light that most HPS bulbs make more than anythign else (up yo 90% of the light they make is unusable by plants). Now here to compare with it, is the spectrum from a NORMAL nice quality HPS light (a HiLux Gro from USHIO America Inc). This light has a PAR of 1,150 which is nothing to sneeze at, but check out the spectrum

http://howtogrowmarijuana.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/hor-hilux-hpschart.jpg

See that big yellow spike and the green one next to it? That is wasted power. This isn't a garbage cheap light and it still has a nasty piece of unusable spectrum. That means a waste of electricity (and carbon footprint and cash).

Metal halides make a better specrum but are less efficient. This is the spectrum of an expensive Hortilux Blue metal halide blub.http://howtogrowmarijuana.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Hortilux%20blue.jpg

A 400 watt Metal-Halide Hortilux blue hs a par of 148.

All this led to experiments in the late 70s and early 80s. People wanted to save money and get good result, WITHOUT having to spend a lot on expensive bulbs. So they started doing serious experiments. The results were amazing. Due to the fact that what you NEED is a lot of inexpesivly produced spectrum in the right places, it was found that using a whole lot of T8 fluorescent tubes to run a sea of green, got you far more KG of flowers per meter watt of grow space (and therefor per dollar spent on it) than any other method around (at that time).

When T5's came out (especially the GHO ones with special over-driven ballasts) the change was to go over whichever T5s you could best afford. This also has the advantage of NOT being very very hot,.

I have grown under HPS and you have to keep your plants about 16 inches form them in oder to not burn the. The inverse square law is a bitch but ot get closer up you have to buy ungodly expensive (to buy AND to run) cooling system for those lights. ON teh oterh nad you can put a plant TOUCHING a T8 and it just makes more plant. And during all of this time most growers STILL stuck with HPS due to the mythology of "penetration" (a thing few people really understood but it seems everyone wants to talk about).

* All light is subject to the inverse square law no matter what technology makes it.

* although blue light bounces a lot more, the red ones make the plant want to flower. A blue only light system produces a lot less (and smaller) flowers.

* the best blue producing lights have a very low PAR, whci means a lot more electricity (and fixtures) are needed to get much of that light (except for the ungodly expensive induction blue lights which are hard to even find)

So if you really want more penetration just put T8s (or VHO T5s) on the sides of your grow area walls.

Then electrical prices got annoying and people started to use CF bulbs. Here is a GE 6500 CFL spectrum :http://howtogrowmarijuana.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/GE-6500k-CFL-grow-light.jpg

* note that we still have very little red light (??flowers??) and too much green and yellow spectrum (wasted energy).

Even though LCDs use about the same energy as Flourescents do, the LCDs can target the exact spectrum you want. So - if you have the cash for a good quality dedicated spectrum LCD system (only reds and blues) the results are quite good and the power bill is a lot less (and avoid all the ones that say that they are full spectrum) . It takes a lot of self education to not get shafted when buying LCD system though. You really want "on chip" lights in the right frequencies from a brand that has a good reputation and a very long solid warranty.

On the other hand, even with all that dedicated growth spectrum, you cannot just swap out the tubes (or bulbs) on an LCD system in teh way you can with other lights. Good LCD grow lights are wired to the fixture. When they die, they just die and you must buy a new one.

 

LCD is a TV screen you mean LEDs. Where the hell u get ur info WALOS (what a load of shit.) you say in late 70s early 80s people were doing experiments to work out most efficient way, back then hydroponics had not been properly developed let alone heard off back then. You also think plants and humans are totally different WALOS again.

 

Really think about it mate really not hard when growing indoors, you want to create a sanctuary as close to an outside environment inside, starting with the light.

 

Plants v human

Both have a ph level

Both need trace elements to properly grow

Both need light

Both are acceptable to death and disease

Both can reproduce

Plants take in carbon dioxide release oxygen humans opposite

IMO plants can teach us a lot about ourselves.

Edited July 25, 2014 by haze420mist

[Midget]

LCD is a TV screen you mean LEDs. Where the hell u get ur info WALOS (what a load of shit.) you say in late 70s early 80s people were doing experiments to work out most efficient way, back then hydroponics had not been properly developed let alone heard off back then. You also think plants and humans are totally different WALOS again.

..

 

Havent you seen buds grown with a TV.... ?

 

 

 

This made me chuckle

 

DISCLAIMER - I do not know everything. I'm staring out saying this. However I do know a fair amount about light and plants.

Science is science. 

It isn't really a good idea to judge LCD grow lights in general based on what you have seen done with the ones made 3 or 4 years ago (or crappy ones made today). LCDs have gone through massive technological changes.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Midget

[haze420mist]

..

 

Havent you seen buds grown with a TV.... ?

 

 

 

This made me chuckle

 

DISCLAIMER - I do not know everything. I'm staring out saying this. However I do know a fair amount about light and plants.

Science is science. 

It isn't really a good idea to judge LCD grow lights in general based on what you have seen done with the ones made 3 or 4 years ago (or crappy ones made today). LCDs have gone through massive technological changes.

seen buds on TV not grown with one

[billygoat]

Hmmmmm i might hang my full hd led tv on the roof in the tent....

 

Then i can take some video of the sun, chuck it on a usb and plug it in to the tv.... Put it on replay... Obviously turn the brightness up as high as it goes....

 

I think i might be on to something !