Greens Party Policies

[Luke Skywalker]

Cronic_la_jar_jar Posted on Apr 22 2003, 09:06 PM

...you need to live in reailty mate this war has freed iraq if you like it or not and dont give me crap it should of gone through the UN. If its not clear to you that the UN dose no longer work because of how currupt it is...

 

 

DONT BE SO BITTER BECAUSE HOWARD ,BLAIR AND BUSH were right .

 

Uhm, is it just me or was the entire point of the invasion of Iraq that there was an imminent threat of a chemical, biological or nuclear attack on the us? According to them, anyway. So show me how Howard, Blair and Bush were right. I don't see any chemical, biological or nuclear weapons, do you? Don't give me that crap that he's hiding them, because the only way to know that is to allow the Weapons Inspectors to do their job. They are the ones who were invested with the task of determinining whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, not the U.S. Since when were they appointed world sherrif?

 

And if you have a complaint about the corruption in the U.N. you would be well advised to look at the U.S. and British acts and then tell me if they are not "currupt".... The Australian government does have a responsibility, and that responsibility is to obey the rule of international law, because no matter how you look at it two wrongs will never make a right, and to repair and rebuild the Iraqi civil services and administration systems, and to return Iraq to economic and social order. The actions of the Australian and U.S. governments is nothing less than illegal, and for anyone to say that the reason for the invasion was anything but a grab for the assets (the oil) of the Iraqi nation, and at the same time take out a wily, and most difficult adversary, then they are the ones who need to find reality.

 

There was no moral high ground here, the Bush administration has always made its true motives known. They are in the World Domination business now, and anyone who wants to argue had best watch out. There's another country which everyone has conveniently forgotten now, but if you went there, you would hardly call it a democracy, let alone a "liberated nation" True, life is slightly better under the Warlords the U.S. installed as the government than it was under the Taliban, but here's the point. Why liberate a nation if you're only going to hand it over to the men with the most guns and opium plantations? The U.S. and other Western nations have a nasty, and most sickening habit of claiming to be liberating a nation, and then quickly forgetting that nation unless it has some major financial or economic incentive to be there.

 

Why aren't we invading North Korea and liberate them? The people there are starving and living under an incredibly repressive government, and yet the U.S. does nothing. Why not invade Israel and free the Palestinians? The so called democratic governments of Israel, directly supported and succored by U.S. administration after U.S. administration, have systematically punished the Palestinian people for 50 years, and Israel stands in breach of several U.N. Security Council resolutions. The killing goes on every day around the world, and the U.S. sells the guns to both sides.

 

I just can't agree with you on this one guys. Chronic, you really do show how little you know of the world....

 

And tom, where's the queue? To call those who are forced to escape though the only means available to them come here and are accepted as refugees. The amount of people accepted as refugee's in Australia has no effect on the numbers of immigrants who are accepted into this country. To say so shows a basic lack of understanding of how our Immigration and Refugee systems work. Sorry mate, but do some homework on the subject before claiming that those who come from across the seas in unbelievable squalor and desperation are "Queue Jumpers."

 

IMHO

Edited April 22, 2003 by Luke Skywalker

[Tom]

What I am trying to say is that the ones fleeing the previous regime are no longer refugees, they are now displaced citizens of Iraq and their country is about to go through an employment boom, there are other refugees running from other evil regimes that still exist. Australia can only take so many refugees, let’s help the most urgent first.

 

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[Cronic_la_jar_jar]

Despite they did not find any chemical weapons because they properly have been moved into Russia like the last gulf war also the portable biological stations witch are on trains and trucks are to believe to be in Syria. That’s why they are currently shitting their pants also the one of the 2 places suddam and his family are properly seeking refugee. Also who cares if they did not find anything getting rid of regime witch slaughter its people for the past 10 years and made them suffer and live in fear is a good enough reason for me. So should we ignore the likes of Chemical alie launching a chemical attack on the curds 10 years ago? that’s enough evidence for me right their I mean like how stupid do you honestly have to be before you realize what suddam is doing idiot’s like yourself just make the process longer and give him a bigger advantage .

 

After all finding Sea Mines (Russian) and Russian Artillery shells un used berried underneath Iraqi school playgrounds say's enough to me also finding the empty chemical biological plant witch was very well hidden to blend into the current environment says allot to also finding out that French Foreign Legion has been training Iraqi troops I mean come on what other excuses do you guys need. They properly won’t find most stuff or records off till they explore all the tunnels under IRAQ. However so what GETTING RID OF SUDAM should be enough. Look at all the the thankful Iraqi’s and if your support this man still being in power then your argument is not worth listening to .

 

 

Ohm and after finding out that Iraq has a foreign debt to RUSSIA, CHINA & FRANCE says something about the UN and how it works doesn’t it. So any Suggestion to a peaceful solution to the problem that was is just plain wishful thinking. Like I said don’t be bitter because BLAIR, BUSH & HOWARD where right about the Iraqi’s wanting to get of sudam. FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO PICK ON ANOTHER CAUSE WICH YOU HAVE NO IDEA ON AGAIN. The War started and it’s pretty much finished so get over it. Luke by any chance your not a Uni Student or member of the teachers board by any chance?

 

p.s

 

Did you mannage to see the liberal aposed goverment in England , say they were wrong in thier argument and blair was right and that he should be recomended on his work with bush in this crisis . I hope Oppersition in this country has enough class to do the same thing . But knowing how much the oppersiton climbs grease poles in this country it wouldt suprise me if they didt .

Edited April 23, 2003 by Cronic_la_jar_jar

[Cronic_la_jar_jar]

Ohh i almost forgot prooves again you aint got a clue on whats going on. Blair Stated in parliment and i quote " North Korea is next on the agenda list ". Edited April 23, 2003 by Cronic_la_jar_jar

[Luke Skywalker]

Once again Chronic, you show your eagerness to believe in the propaganda shoved down our throats every day... If you read my post you will see that I never supported the rule of Saddam Hussein, he is an evil, evil man who is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. But this does not, and never can, justify a unilateral action without backing by the U.N. Security Council.... To punish an illegal act with further illegal action is ridiculous! The ends can't justify the means. The weapons inspectors were doing their job, and Hans Blix himself said he was very dissapointed that the process was not permitted to be completed. Once again, who appointed the U.S. the sherriff of the planet? I must have missed the time that the U.S. government was elected by the people of the world.... The only nation that won't sign up to the International Criminal Court is the U.S. Every other nation on the planet has agreed that all war criminals, regardless of their nationality, should be brought to justice should the systems of justice in their countries fail. But the U.S. Bush government seems to think that the world is only there to service U.S. interests, and the U.S. being the ruling power in the world is more important than justice for the people of this world.

 

Do you for one second trust the U.S. Government? Do you really beleive that this has been anything but a grab for the assets of the second largest oil reserves on earth, thus securing supplies for a nation using more and more energy every day? Gee, you really have been sucked in then, if you think that George Dubbleya, is "liberating" Iraq. They are merely replacing one dictator with another, and you watch, any new administration in Iraq will be heavily pro-U.S., and you can bet that George's buddies in the Oil Industry will get cushy jobs exploiting their new found playground of black gold.

 

Now, as to your arguments regarding the "Weapons of Mass Destruction", the examples of possible movement of these weapons out of Iraq, and the " portable biological stations " that you mention..... Where? Show me. Show me the slightest hint of evidence that any of these claims is anything but American propaganda, desperately trying to justify their actions... I too grieve for the Kurds, (spell it right, for f#@#$ sake, chronic), but if you'd recall, at the end of the last gulf war the U.S. incited a rebellion amongst both the Kurds in the North, and the Shi-ite Muslims in the South, and then what happened? They left them to die.... This was Georges daddy. Half of Dubbleya's administration has been made up of former George Bush Snr's team. The Republican party could care more about the shit they step in on the steps of congress, than any ethnic group which is being oppressed.... To pretend that the gassing of the Kurds 10 years ago is the reason for this invasion shows your tremendous naivety.

 

Look at all the the thankful Iraqi’s

 

Hmmmm, yes, all those thankful Iraqi's.... Do you live in some kind of alternate reality? Have you seen the reactions of the people in Iraq to this invasion? Have you seen the pointless slaughter of civilians, supposedly the people that are being "liberated"? Don't try and pretend that this ongoing suffering is not happening, because to do so shows a basic lack of understanding of your fellow man. The Iraqi's themselves are saying "FUCK OFF" to the U.S. in protests, getting larger every day.

 

This should have been done under a U.N. Security Council resolution. There should have been more time given to the Inspectors to finish their job. There is no mandate for the U.S. to simply say, "Hey, he's got banned weapons!" and then when asked for evidence, they say, "Well, we can't actually show you anything, and most of what we're saying is completely unconfirmable, but your just going to have to lump it because we can blow you all up! Now get out of my way, we got a war to run!"

 

The actions of the "Coalition of the Shitscared (of the U.S., that is.)" cannot be condoned, nor justified, nor argued as moral.

 

Once again I say, what about Israel and it's weapons of Mass Destruction.... But all I hear is an embarrased silence, with the faintest sounds of another nation crushed under the ambition of an Evil Empire....

[Guest Field_of_Light]

dont forget the USA will now have 3 long term air bases in iraq....

[Mr Putard]

If they don't find any chemical weapons it's because they hide them or have been blown up.

 

All the ppl that were victimized under hussien are now just innocent civilians who got blown up by a stray tomahawk missile or something equally sinister.

[Cronic_la_jar_jar]

You don’t get it do you Luke?

 

 

THE UN DOSENT HAVE CREDIBILTY IT NO LONGER FUNCTIONS FAIRLY , JUST LIKE THE LEAUGE OF NATIONS FELL IN WW2 FOR NOT HAVING THE WILL TO ACT NOT ONLY THIER CURRUPTION IN THE CURRENT CRISES . BUT LET’S NOT FORGET WHO ORIGNALL PUT ISRAEL WHERE IT IS ITS WASNT AMERICA. IT WAS THE UN , AND LETS US NOT FORGET ABOUT GIVING PAKISTAN ITS OWN COUNTRY AND TAKING KASHIMAR FROM INDIA BUT NOBODY GIVES A FUCK ABOUT THAT DO THEY. THEY WERENT WILLING TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS SITUATION EITHER.

 

 

And the USA was the only country with enough balls to act. Why?

 

Because their world super power and as a super power you have responsibility witch are expected to act. Why Europe fell as a nation in the first place thanks to the Germans. The League of Nations was discussing peace with Germany while they walked into Poland? Are we dumb enough to not learn off the same mistake? (Fact)

 

Russia & China & France all said no to war because it was the right thing to do and a war on Iraq was UN just (progergenda)

 

 

France, Russia, China now suddenly realize their mistake and wish to help with the re building of Iraq and they said No to a war on Iraq because it’s was the just thing to do and would of prefer peaceful solutions. Why? Theirs millions and millions of dollars in the re building of Iraq then their is in the oil suddenly their interested in the Iraq project for no other reason then profit. And the only way their going to be envied is if they drop their foreign debt owed from Iraq .So Far France has been the only willing Country to drop their foreign debt to Iraq. Sound like the UN WORK TO YOU LUKE? Not only had that China had the electrical contract with Suddam's Central command. While France was training Iraqi troops via the French Foreign Legion .while Russia not only controlling most of the oil wells in Iraq was supplying weapons to suddams regime as you noticed most of the Iraqi’s weaponry was Russian Issue such as Russian issue RPG'S AND AK'S . I think those countries had a reason to say no to a war because their stories would be told. Russia was exposed for helping Iraq in the 20 year war with the curds back in desert storm 1. So while you can deny all this and say the UN is fair is crap

 

THIS WAR IS ABOUT OIL? (PROBERGANDA)

 

The Collation can not touch any oil from Iraq. As Stated all money gathered from Iraqi oil well's not Russian owned well's but Iraqi well’s will be put into a bank account witch the UN will have control over. The only part the UN is having in the rebuilding of Iraq as everything has been given back to the Iraqi people.

 

American's are interested in re building contracts and re development plans to boost their own economy. Oil reserves are the least of their problems Oil well's in Alaska alone produce more oil then the whole entire Iraq .however I am not saying the government they leave in place will not give them a cheaper deal in crude oil .

 

 

I Show Eagerness to believe propaganda

 

That my friend is what you are showing in the UN willingness of the fate to accept the fact's that’s been put in front of us. I accept all fact I don’t believe in Wishful thinking it doesn’t work.

 

Do I trust the US government?

 

No dose anybody. But id soon rather trust the us government then a Nation lead by Muslims and dictators. Id soon rather support a Jew then a Muslim (call me racist I don’t care). I just remember when we called out to them in battle of the corral see.

 

 

Justify their action. ?

 

They don’t need to my friend the freedom of the Iraqi is all I need; I hope to god if Indonesia took control of us the USA will come and help us out.

 

Hmmmm, yes, all those thankful Iraqi's.... Do you live in some kind of alternate reality? Have you seen the reactions of the people in Iraq to this invasion? Have you seen the pointless slaughter of civilians, supposedly the people that are being "liberated"? Don't try and pretend that this ongoing suffering is not happening,

 

Their wasn’t even more then 1000 civilian casualties, so don’t make it out to sound it was some travesty of human life. What about all those Iraqi’s with thank you USA SIGNS and giving soldiers flowers I suppose you think that’s all setup by the American government to huh and interviewing Iraqi women in TIKRIT suddam’s home town saying stuff like I don’t blame the US troops for the death of my son I blame suddam for letting this cruelties happen to his people but I guess your going to say the usa put a gun to her head and made her say that.

 

 

Mate get a decent argument that aint made up of bullshit. *shakes head*. Epically when the only come back line you have is to make fun of my spelling witch I don’t give a shit about since this is the internet. Don’t be a dickhead because what you were against ended up being just .

[Guest Field_of_Light]

Chronic....that was the biggest post Ive ever seen on here.........reminds me of my uni dissertation........

[Luke Skywalker]

THE UN DOSENT HAVE CREDIBILTY IT NO LONGER FUNCTIONS FAIRLY ,

 

And the U.S. does? I'd rather have the decisions made in our names be ones made by at the very least a majority of Governments in the Security Council, than have a foreign nation decide the future of the world arbritrarily and with no concern to the good of the planet. At least then we have some kind of stage for the problems in the world and no, I don't think it's ideal. But how is a foreign government bent on world domination, acting illegally in intervening in Iraq going to fix things?

 

And the USA was the only country with enough balls to act. Why?

 

Because their world super power and as a super power you have responsibility witch are expected to act. Why Europe fell as a nation in the first place thanks to the Germans. The League of Nations was discussing peace with Germany while they walked into Poland? Are we dumb enough to not learn off the same mistake? (Fact)

 

First off, get your facts straight, Europe is not, and never has been, a nation. It is a continent made up of many nations. We are not dealing with the Leauge of Nations, we are talking about the United Nations. The Leauge of nations was a far smaller organisation, and the first of it's kind. The failure of the allies to realise what Hitler had planned was not one you could ascribe to the League, maybe you should look at who was doing the peace talks all that time.... Neville Chamberlain. And he was the British Prime minister. If anything, the League of Nations failed because the people leading the governments in it were weak willed and unwilling to act. In that case, yes, Hitler was agressing Europe, and had already taken Czechoslovakia and Austria, and when the Polish invasion began Britain retaliated, as they said they would. The situation doesn't compare. There is no, and I repeat, no evidence whatsoever that Saddam Hussein had any weapons of mass destruction. I defy you to show it to me. Saddam may have been an evil man, and yes, he may have killed many of his own people, but this does not equate to automatic invasion. The reasons given for the invasion were blatantly false, the U.S. claimed to have substantial evidence of chemical and biological weapons programs. But they refused, point blank, to share this so called "evidence" with anyone! And everything they've presented to the U.N. Security council has either turned out to be unsubstantiated, or plain falsehoods.

 

The U.N. may not be perfect, not by a long shot, but it's the only thing we've got, and until you can come up with a better, and more practical idea, then I think that it's the best way to go. The U.S. may be a Superpower, but why is that? Because they have the economic muscle and conventional and nuclear weapons to back up anything they say. Not because they have any moral ambitions to free the world. Because if that were so, then this action would have been taken years ago.

 

France, Russia, China now suddenly realize their mistake and wish to help with the re building of Iraq and they said No to a war on Iraq because it’s was the just thing to do and would of prefer peaceful solutions. Why? Theirs millions and millions of dollars in the re building of Iraq then their is in the oil suddenly their interested in the Iraq project for no other reason then profit. And the only way their going to be envied is if they drop their foreign debt owed from Iraq .So Far France has been the only willing Country to drop their foreign debt to Iraq. Sound like the UN WORK TO YOU LUKE? Not only had that China had the electrical contract with Suddam's Central command. While France was training Iraqi troops via the French Foreign Legion .while Russia not only controlling most of the oil wells in Iraq was supplying weapons to suddams regime as you noticed most of the Iraqi’s weaponry was Russian Issue such as Russian issue RPG'S AND AK'S . I think those countries had a reason to say no to a war because their stories would be told. Russia was exposed for helping Iraq in the 20 year war with the curds back in desert storm 1. So while you can deny all this and say the UN is fair is crap

 

I never said the U.N. was fair, but neither is allowing any country to invade anyone else willy-nilly and without the consensus of at least a majority of the worlds governments. And as to the reason that the French, Russians and Chinese are getting involved in the rebuilding of Iraq, well, who blew the place up in the first place? Why aren't the "Coalition of the Shitscared" putting in at least the same amount of money for the rebuilding of Iraq as they did in invading it? Because they don't give a fuck about the people, only money. Yes, the French, Russian and Chinese are heavily involved in Iraq's economy, but the U.S. is involved in countless other illegitimate and opressive goverments. So does that make them evil and self interested too? Yes, and yes again.

 

THIS WAR IS ABOUT OIL? (PROBERGANDA)

 

The Collation can not touch any oil from Iraq. As Stated all money gathered from Iraqi oil well's not Russian owned well's but Iraqi well’s will be put into a bank account witch the UN will have control over. The only part the UN is having in the rebuilding of Iraq as everything has been given back to the Iraqi people.

 

The only reason all monies coming from oil are presently going through the U.N. is because of the "Oil for Food" program, a part of sanctions on Iraq imposed by the U.N. The U.S. government has come out and said that the sanctions should be lifted immediately, kind of ironic that, but this would have the effect of immediately removing the "Oil for Food" program and replacing it with civil trade. When you conquer a country, who do you think most of the trade will go to? And if the U.N. no longer has control over the oil revenues then where do you imagine they'll go? Think about it. And the Iraqi oil production system is at present nationalised in the Ministry of Oil. No two guesses about how long it takes for the U.S. to de-regulate the market under the hypocritical "free trade" slogan. What a joke.

 

 

American's are interested in re building contracts and re development plans to boost their own economy. Oil reserves are the least of their problems Oil well's in Alaska alone produce more oil then the whole entire Iraq .however I am not saying the government they leave in place will not give them a cheaper deal in crude oil .

 

This is laugable. You should really do some research before you make ridiculous claims like this. Alaska has nowhere near the Oil reserves that Iraq has. Look it up, and think before you write something. It merely shows your ignorance. The americans are only in it for the money. Their economy is failing, so they quickly move to "War Economy!" and everything's all better. Pity nobody is interested in the people who are killed by these wars.... And even greater is the shame that the U.S. will always do a half-assed job.... Once again, look at afghanistan....

 

No dose anybody. But id soon rather trust the us government then a Nation lead by Muslims and dictators. Id soon rather support a Jew then a Muslim (call me racist I don’t care). I just remember when we called out to them in battle of the corral see.

 

You are a racist.

What are you talking about in that last line there? I can't understand what you are referring to about the battle of the Corral Sea.... What has this to do with whether you trust a Jew or a Muslim? Let alone what has your religion got to do with your trustworthyness? This is a bit baffling....

 

Their wasn’t even more then 1000 civilian casualties, so don’t make it out to sound it was some travesty of human life.

 

That's a very strange opinion, that a thousand lives lost in war is not a travesty of humanity.... Does it matter how many innocent civilians are killed? Isn't one too many? And where did you get that figure from? The U.S.?

 

What about all those Iraqi’s with thank you USA SIGNS and giving soldiers flowers I suppose you think that’s all setup by the American government to huh and interviewing Iraqi women in TIKRIT suddam’s home town saying stuff like I don’t blame the US troops for the death of my son I blame suddam for letting this cruelties happen to his people but I guess your going to say the usa put a gun to her head and made her say that.

 

I think you'll find that the vast majority of Iraqi's hate both the U.S. and Saddam.... And if you can't see an "embedded" journalist's report for what they are, well... Look out there, the feelings of the people are apparent. Watch something other than channel 10 news, and you may catch some real journalism.

 

Mate get a decent argument that aint made up of bullshit. *shakes head*. Epically when the only come back line you have is to make fun of my spelling witch I don’t give a shit about since this is the internet. Don’t be a dickhead because what you were against ended up being just .

 

I just can't understand how you can call an act in direct contravention of the Geneva Convention "just". Sorry, but the ends, still, can never justify the means. Two wrongs can never make a right.