Return of the Jedi...

[TUGBOAT]

Luke, you certainly are a huge asset to the ozstonerz boards, the information contained in this thread alone on transplanting and the use of pesticides, aerosol or otherwise, in an enclosed environment is fantastic.

 

Read through your last grow thread the other day (took quite a while) and will be tuning into this one whenever i visit.

 

I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions over the next coupla months with my first indoor grow, so don't go jetting off at lightspeed any time soon.

 

Good luck with the grow, but I have a feeling you won't be needing it.

 

May the force be with you, and the blue widow.

[Luke Skywalker]

Thanks tabbycat, much respect goes out to ya.

 

To your question. Well, there are a couple of factors here... When our favourite plant grows it does it in a few distinct stages, most of us are aware of the basic changes that occur during them, but there are other ones which you may be unaware of.

 

During vegetative growth, the plant is basically going for broke. It's entire purpose is to get as big, and as healthy as possible, in the shortest time it can. Having lots of vegetation means more flowers, and more flowers, means more likely to be fertilised, and thus spread around to continue the species. But vegetation above ground has to be supported... And so the root system grows at a similar rate to the above ground parts, all being equal of course. A root system which is small will only be able to support a small plant, a root system which is able to grow large and healthy can and will support a large plant, get it? So if the media the plant is in is less than ideal, then that's one of the limiting factors on growth for the plant. I'm scattering here, back to the point.... So as the plant is in veg it's not only growing above ground, but below as well... This changes somwhat during flowering tho.

 

During flowering, the plant goes through massive change. It's purpose in life is now not to grow big, but flower big. As the photoperiod drops in autumn, (or you change the lights to 12/12 indoors) the plant stops growing, and does some hormonal shifting... Very soon after this initial stall in growth, (almost unnoticeable really, unless you're measuring hourly.) it changes again, and hormones are released, triggering the flowering process... The stems begin to stretch, the nodes change from opposite to alternate, and each new side growth from the branches are now flowering shoots, as opposed to vegetative growth. You may think that the plant is growing, so ergo, it needs more roots... Well, that's not what happens. All of these processes are done using the present roots and foliage available to the plant. It sort of goes from getting bigger and bigger vegetatively, (the vegetative growth being able to produce sufficient food to have enough to start new shoots,) to using the present vegetative supply to continue supplying the plant with foods for flowering. Very little increase is made in the root system, and unless the plant is grown on, the roots are on a downhill route from here... they'll continue to support the plant whilst flowering, but as the plant reaches senescence, (where all the flowers swell and coat with resin late in flowering) the roots begin to degrade, and if you were to leave the plant to just grow on... it would either self-pollinate through hermaphroditism, or it will simply die. The point of this big speil is to let you know that in the flowering period, plants are not likely to create new roots... So whatever you have at the start or soon after flowering is induced, is what you've got to rely on to support the plant from then on.

 

Generally, the more vegetative time, the larger the rootmass and healthier the plant. There is a point of diminishing returns, as there is only so much space, time, light and other support you can give to a plant while it grows, and the longer it grows, the more likely you will encounter pathogens or other problems, but I think you get the idea.

 

I'd say yeah, throw in the mum, as the clone is never going to be more than a bud on a stick. The stretching you've been seeing is the plant forming it's cola... That early into it's life, it will never really produce for ya. If you had 20 of em, then maybe, but that's what's called SOG. I'm not too keen on it, as more plants = more risk, but hey, to each their own. Stick in the mum, and I'm not sure what lighting she's been under, but if you can, I'd veg her for a little while longer before flowering if possible. If she's already turned it'll probably be more hassle than it's worth to turn it back, so if it's already going to flower then I'd just let it continue.

 

If you're transplanting bubbler plants it should be fairly easy... just be extrememly delilcate with any roots if you have to take the plant out of one basket and into another. It would be an exceptionally difficult thing to do if the plant had already a fair amount of root mass below the basket, but if it's still inside, or just poking out, then you may be able to do it. Once again, a very mild b-vit or similar tonic as a rinse, (mild as bubblers are a bit diff from "normal" hydro re strength) to help with shock.

 

Whew... I know that I make little sense sometimes, ranting on about subjects that have little to do with the question at hand, so I hope that helped you out and didn't just make things more confusing for ya tabbycat....

 

And Tugboat... awww.. you guys are just too nice sometimes. I need all the luck I can get with this grow, as it's on an even tighter budget and even more pressing environment than last time.... Any and all Force good wishes are most welcome...

 

I've installed a second intake, about 120mm square with a 150mm duct for the baffle/insect screen. That's helped somwhat with the temps a bit. I'm very lucky we've had possibly the coolest spring weather for a while here... I'll be getting the new fan soon, perhaps next week. That should be more than powerful enough to maintain good temps, no matter how hot it gets... 800m3/hr.... The space is something like 1m3... hee hee.

 

Already one of the clones have been culled as unsuitable. Growth is good, just acclimatising to the new lighting and growing environment. They should be transplanted out into their new home today....

 

Oh, and I'm going with perlite, and a simple recirc sys. Got the materials I needed yesterday, so I'll be showing off the plants in their container and the system particulars over the next few days.

[indooraussie]

i put a clone in a bubbler in my grow room to experiment 6mths ago.it did grow roots more than i expected but not as much as it wouldve it it was vegged first.what i also noticed was leaves were smaller nodes closer and it still reached 4ft high which was a shock.i also noticed that no stretch was really seen due too what was a slow transistion period without the strength of a good root system.roots did not stop growing at all through whole flower cycle but did not come anywhere near the growth rate they grow at in veg.i wouldnt do this again without vegging as it was 4ft tall looked great apart from the plant not bushing at all.it did look like a stick but it was covered in buds.still thick and chunky but smaller than the other clones of same strain that where vegged.so yes i they do grow roots through flower.but wouldnt do again cause

 

1 the root mat wasnt as big

2 plant still got to height with less stretch but yeild was shithouse

3 for the sake of a couple of weeks veg i lost approx 4 ozs

4 most importantly i was surprised to find probably due to lack of root power it took an additional 3 weeks to finish

[Luke Skywalker]

The reason the roots continued to grow was that the plant was entirely too small for flowering, and needed to develop one to support itself. I suppose I may have exagerrated by saying root growth stops, it doesn't really stop, it just doesn't grow at anywhere near the exponential rate it was before, the vast amount of flowering growth is supported by the roots already formed in the vegetative phase. That's a bit more accurate.

 

If there is no vegetative phase, well, it still needs roots....

 

Anyway, aside from these issues, oh and thanks for the input there indooraussie, I've got some pics for you all...

 

The official starting date is now declared, nov1... This is when I chose the two clones which would make the cut and become my plants for this grow. I've made up the system and all that remains is to connect the feeder res, although that can wait for a bit....

 

Anyway, here's the first pic. This shows me making the container, I ended up going with a cheapie but a goodie... the foam esky.... These can be purchased from any supermarket during the warmer months for practically nothing... They're used for broccoli and other delicate vegetables being transported, as well as fish and other things. But the point is, they're cheap, and they make excellent hydroponics containers. To start you need to make some holes for drainage. I make my drain lines in recirc systems I make myself a few centimeters from the base. This leaves a reserve of water and nutrient for plants to draw on between irrigations. The holes are made with scissors, by making a circular motion into the surface with the points. These are made a little smaller than the holes required, which is 19mm... They are adjusted later to make a watertight seal.

[Luke Skywalker]

This is the drain fitting, I make my drains using 19mm 90 degree irrigation joints. These are then covered on the inside with synthetic flyscreen (to prevent media blocking drains and root invasion) and taped with either gaffa tape, electrical tape or something similar to hold it there. This also doubles as a sort of seal for the drain.

 

The holes for the drain line must be slightly smaller, as the foam has a little give, but with a bit of practice, and perhaps a couple layers of extra tape here and there, you can get and excellent, watertight seal.

 

I'm putting three in this box, to ensure adequate drainage for the two plants.

[Luke Skywalker]

Here's the esky with two drains in and one last one about to be fitted.

[Luke Skywalker]

The media I've gone with for this grow is Perlite, as you can see it's a high quality brand. This took about 45 lt to fill, a fair bit, but it's a relatively cheap media too. I use it almost exclusively, (with a few exceptions) in the vegetable garden, and my best results have been with perlite too.

[Luke Skywalker]

Ooops, almost forgot, here's the drains finished and ready to go.

[Luke Skywalker]

Okay, here's the clones being planted into the esky... These clones have been "cubed up" to hand cut growool slabs... they're slightly bigger than the normal cubes, and there's no covering to take off or deal with. It's also grained horizontally rather than vertically, so that's another advantage. The clones are buried into the media to the surface of the gwool, with a light covering of perlite. Only one particles depth at most.

[Luke Skywalker]

Okay, this is the clones planted out, sorry this ones a little blurred.