Return of the Jedi...

[Luke Skywalker]

I may have been a little harsh on them, but really, they're not designed for use with large root mass plants like mj, they're more for smaller, quicker turnover crops like lettuce, strawberries, (although these need a fair amount of space too) and herbs like basil and such. MJ is just too big. Unless you grow with clones, (which most people who go out and buy a ready made hydro system don't do) and grow in a SOG configuration, (which i have no desire to do) they aren't really good for your purpose.

 

As above, as below, the root mass below the "soil" or in this case, the lid of the channel, is usually of simlar size to the amount of vegetation above. It's very easy to see that with a restricted root space like that, anything over a foot or so is going to cause problems.

 

I grow for personal use, and usually grow 2 or maybe 3 plants at most. I don't think SOG style nft methods are really suitable here.

 

Lack of oxygen has never been an issue either, If anything this system allows MORE oxygen to the roots, however I still run a airstone in my res and use H202 just incase.

 

Perhaps in the initial stages, yes, the constant flow of water over the root mass, spreads nutrients and provides good oxygenation. But as the root mass grows more dense, (which it inevitably does) that oxygen is taken up before it can reach the other side.... Lack of oxygen = problems. You can add an airstone, but once again, the nutrient temps in a shallow space are usually higher than in a large body of water, and as the grow and roots get bigger, the water is held in the root mass longer... So temps rise... Oxygen becomes less and less soluble in water as the temp rises.... If you have to add h202 to any system on a regular basis then something is wrong with that system. You should have good oxygenation of the root mass when the system is running, full stop.

 

Have a look in the trading post WP, there should be more than a few TurboTanks on sale there... ask anyone whos grown in them, and I know a few, they all change to something else. I've never once seen a good grow with one. Not one. I'll gladly defer if you can show me one. And it can't have had large scale problems with the grow requiring drastic curative action too...

 

The cost is bugger all if you build your own Turbo system, its only a nute res, and a larger plastic tray on the top, so it cost you 2 plastic containers and a little bit of line.

 

, a little more complex than that I think mate... If I was really going to go to the trouble of buiding my own compact nft table, I don't think I'd use it in this grow, as 1. I'm cramped for space, 2. I have a heat issue, this is a summer grow 3. I don't think NFT is the most suitable system here.

 

I will try my hardest to get you a pic of this awesome system,

Iam still using ebb and flow myself but will be changing to a organic soil grow in chanber 1 and a turbo tank in my other chamber.

 

 

Don't bother man, I've seen em more than enough. Uless you can show us one in action, with a good crop.... Spend your money on it if you like, just don't come crying to ozstoners when the rootmass gets so big it starts to rot, and you get all kinds of problems crop up. Sorry to sound so harsh, but I have a very disparaging view of the Turbo Tank sys, based on experience and seeing grows ruined by them. You'll do better in the organic sys. IMHO.

 

That waterworld thing- do you mean a waterfarm?

 

perlite, (waterworld brand, bloody great stuff)

 

No, I was referring to a perlite brand. I've done a fair bit of searching for a good one, and this is by far the best. Chunkiest and least powder in the bags by far. I thoroghly recommend it to everyone.

 

Okay, now that I've mortally offended WP, I'll move on to the pics... (YAY! I hear you all call out...)

 

This is the old fan hole, rather patchily fixed up with the piece cut out for the new one.... It had to be moved as the new position has a wall directly on that side of the wardrobe, so I couldn't have it there for obvious reasons...

[Luke Skywalker]

Here's the new position, in the roof...

 

Many rubber bands were salvaged for this purpose, as you can see.... This fan will soon be replaced with an 800m3 / hr hydro turbo fan... that should keep them temps down... well, I hope...

[Luke Skywalker]

Here's a pic of the intake, I may be adding another one soon... And the stocking on there is a thick one, so I'll also be changing that to a light denier soon. The intake has been enlarged about 50% since last time, but I'm still not satisfied... work shall have to continue....

[Luke Skywalker]

Okay, this is a pic of the rooted clones, they'd been left a little too long, just a day or two... but enough to show more roots than is really good for it... All the roots were trimmed back before transplanting on to the next size growool cubes... which incidentally, were cut from a large slab, as opposed to buying ready made cubes with holes. A little more work, but the slab cut cubes are a little chunkier, and can be cut to preference.

[Luke Skywalker]

And here's a shot of a cubed up clone, this is one of the better ones. I have 7, but will be culling out the lesser plants as I go along. No sense in pulling em before I need to. I'll be going with 2-4...

[pipeman]

hey Luke, why do you trim the roots before transplanting?

[Luke Skywalker]

The roots formed outside the cube are aerial, as they've only existed in a moist atmosphere... never been inside a media, ya know? Plants make different root systems for different situations, and the different types of roots can't be converted to another purpose once built.... So if you didn't trim them, the roots which were exposed on the outside would soon die and rot when put under the media. I trim them to about 1-2mm from the block at most, and then they get a good start with fresh roots.

 

The majority of the root mass is on the inside of the cubes anyway, so it doesn't really harm them, still, a b-vit or similar tonic soak doesn't hurt.

[pipeman]

so, would the same apply when I tried to transplant soil plants to bubblers? should I have trimmed the roots back? I have noticed that the soil roots are not doing very well in my bubblers at all.

[Luke Skywalker]

Yup, which is why I tried to convince you it was a bad idea....

 

Transplanting soil plants to hydroponics, media based ones anyway, can be done. It's just a slow process as the plant gets used to the new environment and the requirements of them.

 

When you took your soil plants out of their media, and then put them into a bubbler, those roots were used to a compact, low oxygen environment, with moderate levels of moisture. Then you've washed off the soil, (which damages the cillae of the root system anyway, so you're going to get some stress anyway) and replaced it with hydro balls right? This is a high oxygen, low water environment... There may be a large amount of moisture in the bubbler below, but the actual media where the plants roots are sitting, (I'm assuming they weren't poking through the netpot...) is a completely different environment, and to survive, the plant has to move quickfast and make itself the appropriate roots for the occasion.

 

Now, as to whether you shoud have trimmed back the root mass... well, that's a debateable topic, but I think you probably would have been marginally better off... depending on how much roots you had that is. If there's little plant above and huge root system, and you just wash off the soil and stick it in there, then yeah, trim it back to a similar mass as the above ground, without going mad. This should always be done in a very clean environment, and with sterile as possible tools. Use superthrive or a similar b vit tonic to help it recover, but still, it's going to be difficult. The roots are just not built for it, so the plant has to get around that, and build new ones. The old ones may well rot once a new system has been developed, so I don't think it's really worth the effort mate, as the plants may well kark it anyway.

 

I really hate to say it, but I feel I have to, start again pipe. Those plants are infested anyway, aren't they? And in one system, what one has, they all soon will. So yeah, that's my advice to you.

[pipeman]

hey thanks for the info Luke. but as I've said, I'm doing this mainly just to see if I can, call it an experiment. Yeah, the plants are looking worse and look like they might not survive. but, we'll see.

 

I completely cleaned off the plants and roots so there was no mites/scarid fly present. then I gave the walls of the grow room a coat of mortein surface spray plus gave the water a half dose of oxyplus. For the first few days I found some dead scarid fly around the place who had obviously decided to try and make a comeback but came to grief with the mortein, but after that, nothing. I know mortein isn't necessarily safe to use, but it will be a long long time until these babies are cloned & flowered.

 

yeah the roots were quite long when I pulled the plants out of the soil and I threaded some through the netpots in the bubblers so they were sitting in the solution. However, they are looking quite dead, and the plants up top aren't looking much better.

 

but I'm happy, either they'll come good and I will be able to clone and get something going in my flower cabinet, or they'll die in which case I'll get something else going in my flower cupboard anyway. Its all good

 

btw, I saw some brunnings White Oil in an aerosol can, you reckon this is good to use?