the nimbin hemp bar

[stonedstump]

I tend to agree with pipeman also. I think he did a really good job on that revised statement and it makes sense, plus it still lays down the rules for your bar quite well .

 

Hello Wildflower, I agree with you too. The media does go on about potency and THC levels, but the stronger the weed is, the less you smoke. So you're inhaling less smoke.

 

Edited July 28, 2006 by stonedstump

[UndaToka]

ok hows this for a compromise?

 

all you guys write a small "why i like hydro / whats good about hydro"

just a cuppla lines and i'll select the best clearest ones ( any swearing will be edited out) ;-) to add to a "pro hydro" segment ?

i will prolly only put 2 or 3 and maybe 4 if they are good enuff

maybe you guys could get together and put a few really good ones

thanks in advance

 

 

peace

Dave Cannabis

 

www.nimbinhempbar.com

 

ps i like pipemans effort i will re read it again and discuss it with my collegues and maybe incorperate some of it

[Pure]

I liked what pipeman said , it is of course probably a little hydro focused for your use and you probably don't wish to give hydroponics that large of a part in your mission statement , but essentially it gets across the same points that I would have liked to aswell so even a shortened version that compacts that information would be great to see

 

I think what should also be stated though , is that these same chemicals and dangers that CAN be associated with commercially grown hydro can ALSO be associated with commercial outdoor cannabis , In fact any commercial grower that chooses to go outdoors is more likely to get problems with bugs and need to use pesticides than the person that is growing in a controlled environment , whether it's outdoor or indoor , there are still greedy parties that will do anything to those plants that they have to to get them from start to finnish

 

I will also agree with you that there are some products on the market that WHERE introduced by the hydro industry to manipulate plants inorder to increase yield ( things like superbud for example ) however whilst these products where on the market they where PURCHASED and used regularly by outdoor growers aswell as indoor. For these reasons I belive it is wrong to single out hydroponics at all , what should be singled out are the people that make bad choices when growing cannabis

 

personally speaking though i see a larger issue with your mission statement , and that is your comment about cannabis indica because it shows a lack of knowledge or research into botany and if you don't know what your saying is factual you shouldn''t say it at all

 

as already posted by ozstoner the meaning of indica is

 

Indica is also used in Binomial nomenclature to indicate species of plants thought to originate in the South Asia such as Cannabis indica (A type of Marijuana), Juniperus indica (Black Juniper), Azadirachta indica (Neem Tree) and Lagerstroemia indica (crape myrtle)-this includes the "Mangifera indica" (Mango).

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indica

 

as you can see from it's definition just cause something is Cannabis indica it doesn't't mean it has been "Genetically modified" , which leaves the comment about selective breeding that one of you made , if you yourself think selective breeding bad then that's up to but don't feed people your opinion and call it fact , otherwise your acting just like the government that you say you stand against in regards to cannabis. I think it's also naive to think that people don't do selective breeding when breeding sativa strains or any other strain that they actually hope to get a good result from for that matter . Without selective breeding your left with landtraces and a bunch of hybrids that you may find a good strain in every once and a while. are you trying to say you belive that people should get landtrace strains or just grow seeds from random pollination ?

 

I would like to assume you have had a read of Marijuana Botany as it would be great for the people calling themselves the front line to know the facts , but from some of your comments I have to say I am not so sure , so I think it would be wise for those members of the hemp bar that haven't already to read it

 

I think MongyMan has also raised some good issues on the previous page in relation to crosses and thc content , and wouldn't mind seeing a response to some of his questions as I have many of the same

[pipeman]

yeah it was focused on the hydro issue because the part of the mission statement that it was intended to replace was also focused on hydro. Its not exactly what I would say if I was running the HEMP Bar and there are other points that could be mentioned as Pure has pointed out but I was trying to hit some middle ground in the hopes that the HEMP Bar crew might be more receptive to it.

[MongyMan]

thanks pure I thought my point had been totaly over looked,

I am one of the lucky few that is still able to grow my own smoko in my vegie garden where the sun provides the light. The soil provides the nutrients. The rain provides the water. And my pet chook does the only fertilizing. but after reading the hemp bars mission statement I am obviously not welcome there because sometimes I choose to grow cannabis indica . I find this a very odd situation.

Why demonize the plant ? Isn't that what the anti-cannabis lobby are all about.

I have to agree MJ Botany is a very interesting read , full of facts.................

[EntyMan]

"We are NOT referring to commercial Indoor hydroponic cannabis indica strains, genetically modified variants of Cannabis that produces disproportionate amounts of THC in a very short time under very bright electric lights with its roots in chemicals."

 

"Since opening day in the H*E*M*P*Bar telling the truth about 'hydro' has been a major focus, tho we think of it as alerting our patrons to all of the very real dangers associated with 'hydro' (particularly commercial) and especially in the understanding of the conspiracy (oil companies and chemical companies) that is behind the entire hydroponic industry."

 

 

The first paragraph is simply factually incorrect on several points.

 

If I recall my botany class correctly, indica strains naturally evolved in the higher altitudes and latitudes, around the Middle East and Himalayas (South Asia). The only 'genetic modification' they have undergone at the hands of humans is through conventional selective breeding, which is hardly a controversial practice.

 

I don't know what you mean by 'disproportionate'. Relative to what? Selectively bred indica and indica cross strains may well have higher THC content, but that is exactly the trait they were deliberately selected for! It means smoking less unwanted plant material along with the THC.

 

Any problems with using higher THC level strains is basically related to a failure of the user to allow for higher THC levels, not to any mysterious unnaturally acquired unhealthy properties of the plant or its THC due to alleged toxins in the inorganic fert, or genetic engineering, or whatever.

 

The life cycle of indica strains is short because they evolved in a natural environment that only offers a very short maturing season. It is a natural genetic adaptation to local climate. We humans had nothing to do with it.

 

Indicas are naturally evolved strains (genotypes). There is NO special or dangerous 'genetic modification' in currently available indicas. Most of the food you eat has undergone many more generations of selective breeding than cannabis.

 

Most personal level growers do not have the option of growing outdoors, and it is difficult to see how to grow indoors without using "bright electric lights". It is true that artificial light is not the same quality as sunlight, but it is not far off it either from the plant's point of view, and it certainly cannot somehow poison your plant. Artificial lights are the least of your concerns with 'unnatural' methods.

 

Lastly. I seriously hope my hydro fert fed plant does have "its roots in chemicals", meaning nutrients, water, and air. If it didn't have then it wouldn't survive for very long. The basic chemicals that make up plant nutrients are the same in both organic or inorganic forms of fertiliser, and get converted into the same plant compounds, by the same biochemical plant processes. If they were not the same then hydro ferts wouldn't work. A nitrogen atom is a nitrogen atom is a nitrogen atom.

 

Many careful scientific experiments, over several decades, have shown quite clearly what the essential nutritional (ie chemical) requirements for healthy plant growth are, and that it makes little difference to the chemical composition of the final plant whether you supply them in organic or inorganic form, as long as they are all supplied at the right levels.

 

Your second paragraph is just self-serving fear mongering based on the first paragraph's falsehoods, mixed in with some adolescent political analysis.

 

If you guys at HEMP Bar want to argue that purely organic methods may have some <i>additional</i> benefits that hydro can't deliver, that may well be true, and I actually agree that going purely organic outdoors is the optimal method, for any crop humans grow. But don't try to make out that partly or fully inorganic indoor methods, <i>as used in small personal grows, by many experienced thoughtful growers and users</i>, are vastly inferior, let alone somehow a serious threat to your health, (especially in a very politically and legally sensitive area like this one), unless you have some very solid science to back it up. And if you do have some I want to know about it, because I don't want to grow in a unhealthy way either.

 

I am also prepared to bet that if you did a full chemical analysis of 'organic' ferts commonly used by stoners you will find that many of them contain stuff you wouldn't like.

 

Think very carefully about what you are doing with these statements, HEMP Bar. It is a serious mistake to try to separate out sativas/indicas, indoor/outdoor, and organic/inorganic just for opportunistic legal/political purposes. If you think that you will make it politically and legally easier for yourselves by throwing the indica/indoor/inorganic (III) growers to the anti-drug thugs (especially by claiming the III growers are uncaring commercial outfits pushing unhealthy products), then you will be in for a rude shock. Because whether or not they get any of the III growers (personal or commercial level), eventually they will still come after you. The anti-drug thugs ultimately don't care what strain you are growing, or how you are growing it. They play very hard ball, and take no prisoners.

 

If you want to make a distinction between commercial and personal grows, for political/legal purposes, that is fine. But don't do it on the basis of strain, or indoor/outdoor, or organic/inorganic. Do it on the basis of dried weight, plus number of plants, plus overall size and sophistication of the set up. That is what really distinguishes commercial from personal.

 

To sum up:

 

Get your basic science right.

 

Don't associate III with organised crime, or unhealthy end products, without some serious evidence (and you haven't given us a shred of it yet).

 

Just say on your site that you strongly prefer sativa strains, grown completely organically, and leave it at that. I can respect that position. You don't need to also unjustifiably attack the III growers, especially personal level growers.

 

Save your energy for the important battles with the real enemy, the fascistic anti-fun scum. We are all in this together. If the scum divide us stoners, then they win. Basic Politics 101.

 

And nice piece of work, pipeman.

[Budman2012]

Just Brilliant , Excellent EntyMan ...

And with Pures previous post aswell ...

That is about all that could be possibly positively related to the Funky HempBar Peoplez (Legendz regardless)

...

... Very Well Done ... But does anyone think my opinion on Medicinal use has any relevance , I seriously think that "Hydro" , Regulated-(i.e. Healthily) Hydroponically grown MJ works Far better as a medicine. well .. IMO anyway , even tho I love Outdoor "Bush" budz too ...

Sorry , I am a bit very stoned (Pain releif I need atm.) , I wish I could have worded myself a bit better.

Thx again Guyz , Seeya Later ...

From Budman.

[stonedstump]

Well said Pure and EntyMan.

 

You pretty much summed up what I was also trying to say earlier on but you put it together into one nice big post.

 

I just hope that the people at the nimbin hemp bar read it and take it in. Maybe then they will start to understand what we are trying to say to them.

 

Bye

[UndaToka]

it seems no one is willing to take me up on my offer (in my previous post)

but to be fair i will leave it open till wednesday

 

last chance to have ya say guys !!!

after that i just wont be bothering to read any more posts

 

we arnt the ones causing divisoin it wasnt us that started this thread

we merely responded to the attacks

 

we HAVE made changes to our mission statement to reflect the fact that we are listening to your concerns .

however, if all you can do is shitcan us ya can go stick ya head up the anal passage of a deceased canine

 

i would also like to thank the few who DID contribute constructivly

 

its hard enuff here with the police harrassing us esp one who wants her 3rd stripe and a record number of busts, without the attacks from the people whos rights we are trying to defend. so rather then continue in a piontless discusoin id prefer to continue with my activisoin which at the moment is centered around The Church of the Holy Smoke http://www.thechurchoftheholysmoke.org

 

(http://www.undatoka.com/index2.htm scroll down to the utube movie of one of our sacred COTHS rites the lighting of the sacred joint and the transmorgifacatoin of the (us) 1 dollar bill into a 100 dollar bill)

 

peace

Dave Cannabis

[Pure]

really think you don't understand that these people don't really want a compromise or middle ground , they simply want the parts that are not true in your mission statement not to appear there

 

we have said that we pretty much wanna see something along the lines of what pipeman has said in regards to hydroponics , however your view on indica is totally wrong and has no backing so you can't ask people that are educated and know otherwise to compromise their knowledge , No intelligent person is going to just ignore the fact that you are spreading what amounts to a big fat lie

 

your comment about indica , is remarkably similar to the terminology that they media use to scare those that DON'T know any better , You guys are supposed to be on the educated and pro cannabis side though , so seeing something like that writ en buy you just makes me sick to the stomach

 

I don't belive anyone here has attacked you guys at all , however we educate our members well and they are smart people so when they see something like your mission statement they point out FACTUAL reasons why it should be corrected.

In the end it's up to you whether or not you change your statement to refelect what the truth is we can't force you to do that , however it would be nice for people that are supposed to be pro cannabis to be open to correction if they are mistaken with the information they are providing to others

 

Someone said it best earlier " mis-information is worse than no - information at all".