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Do lower leaves in a scrog grow really take nutrients away from the re

- - - - - scrog leaves leaf trim trimming nutrients

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#1
SpaceMonkey23

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OK, I really want to get opinions from some of the knowledgeable people here. I've had some input on another grow from a few esteemed growers whose opinions I respect a great deal. However, their advice is contrary to my own common sense, and I would like to see if anybody has some good botanical information that clarifies this situation for me. My question is:

 

Is it really true that lower fan leaves in a scrog grow take nutrients away from the flowers in the canopy, and that they should therefore be removed?

 

I simply cannot understand how it can be a good thing to remove lower fan leaves when they generate sugars/energy from photosynthesis, and therefore contribute towards the overall health of the plant and its production of cannabinoids. How do they 'take nutrients away'? By what biological process do healthy green leaves take nutrients away from other parts of the plant?

 

No disrespect intended here to people who say otherwise. I just feel like I want a good botanical explanation for this common belief. I simply can't accept it without a proper explanation.

 

Thanks to everyone who reads/comments.


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#2
ConvexConepiece

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IMO they take light away from the buds, not nutrients.

 

Remove only what's required to get light to lower bud sites is what i've always had work well for me


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#3
forgetiwashere

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They dont take nutrients. Once grown they are grown they dont require more nutrients. They act as lungs helping the plant breathe and they act as backup stores of nutrients. If your plant becomes deficient in a mobile nutrient it will take nutrients away from these larger established leaves and move them to where they are most needed, that is new shoots and flowers. In this way a plant with fans will be less likely to have flower production stunted by a deficiency than a plant without large fans.
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#4
Naycha

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If you leave the below screen growth intact by the end of the cycle it will be quite pale green and unhealthy looking. I find when I trim the below screen growth the above screen growth fills out quite nicely and I get a better result overall. ie. all the buds I harvest have received adequate light and airflow and there is minimum wastage.

 

When it comes down to it what matters for me are the results, the explanation of why the result is better matters less to me than the actual result.

 

If you are unconvinced try it both ways and see which result you prefer. To me it is just a matter of utilising the energy used most efficiently and trimming the below screen growth achieves this.

 

Naycha :peace:


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#5
The Hash Nibbler

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IMO they take light away from the buds, not nutrients.

 

Remove only what's required to get light to lower bud sites is what i've always had work well for me

We are talking a SCROG sorry CC, I was one of the guys who was talking to spacemonkey about this.

The lower leaves are useless in a scrog, they are shaded and will only supply enough energy to produce popcorn buds down low.

Ask ANYONE who can grow a decent scrog and they will tell you they lollipopped it, end of story.

If I didn't know what I was talking about space, I wouldn't even of told you to do it.

 

:peace: Nibbler


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#6
Badseed77

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I agree with what others have said +  I wouldnt be worried so much about the leaves taking nutes  i would be more worried about  humidity within the canopy and lack of air flow  .


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#7
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hey thats not fair nibs lol

 

i consider my scrogs to be pretty decent and i leave all lower leaves. i think of my scrogs like a satellite dish.

 

i like to remove all the upper fans and leave anything below. this way you have all the buds above the screen acting like antenna catching light without all the fans shading them then below the screen is the satellite dish which catches any light that made it through past all the antenna (buds). also these big fans are the lungs of the plant and the back up generators.

 

also by leaving the lower fans and removing all the top ones your activating lower bud sites more as the plant is getting a light response down low on the branch and moves nutrients in a way which more evenly develops the buds from the base of the branch to the top, perhaps giving smaller crowns but more evenly sized buds over all.

 

another reason people say to remove the lower fans is for airflow, thats a load of rubbish too IMO i would rather have it thinned out on top so i can get appropriate airflow moving around my buds than around my trunk and branches.

 

I do remove all lower shoots. i dont want popcorn buds trying to grow and taking away from the uppers but there is nothing wrong with leaving lower leaves IMO.

 

and yes any leaves that are getting no light and not earning there keep will go yellow and drop off that is normal natural and healthy. that is the plant relocating those nutrients  to some place they are needed more. also by having large fans when it comes to flush time you can flush for that little bit longer and get a cleaner product while the plant feeds itself from the stores in its leaves.

 

i understand why people trim there scrogs the other way and i used to do it myself. really there isnt much of a difference either way in the end its going to come down to your views and what you feel comfortable with.


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#8
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We are talking a SCROG sorry CC,

 

I see you're point tho even in a scrog, above the screen, my experience is that selectively removing large fan leaves that are shading budsites can be beneficial. As mentioned above it also improves airflow. There's a happy medium.

 

I definitely lollipop below the screen that's a given  :good:


Edited by ConvexConepiece, 12 April 2014 - 02:40 PM.

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#9
Matsu

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When I ScrOG, I do it a little differently. I actually tie down the branches on TOP of the screen, instead of tucking branches UNDER the screen. This way you can completely remove ALL foliage and any shoots under the screen. This Definitely allows for better airflow and stops any popcorn buds underneath(which get no light anyway) that would take nutrients away from the main crown buds. You will notice the buds above will all be a lot bigger and chunkier.

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#10
The Hash Nibbler

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FFS...were talking about cleaning away the growth under the screen.
 

hey thats not fair nibs lol
 
i consider my scrogs to be pretty decent and i leave all lower leaves. i think of my scrogs like a satellite dish.
 
i like to remove all the upper fans and leave anything below. this way you have all the buds above the screen acting like antenna catching light without all the fans shading them then below the screen is the satellite dish which catches any light that made it through past all the antenna (buds). also these big fans are the lungs of the plant and the back up generators.
 
also by leaving the lower fans and removing all the top ones your activating lower bud sites more as the plant is getting a light response down low on the branch and moves nutrients in a way which more evenly develops the buds from the base of the branch to the top, perhaps giving smaller crowns but more evenly sized buds over all.
 
another reason people say to remove the lower fans is for airflow, thats a load of rubbish too IMO i would rather have it thinned out on top so i can get appropriate airflow moving around my buds than around my trunk and branches.
 
I do remove all lower shoots. i dont want popcorn buds trying to grow and taking away from the uppers but there is nothing wrong with leaving lower leaves IMO.
 
and yes any leaves that are getting no light and not earning there keep will go yellow and drop off that is normal natural and healthy. that is the plant relocating those nutrients  to some place they are needed more. also by having large fans when it comes to flush time you can flush for that little bit longer and get a cleaner product while the plant feeds itself from the stores in its leaves.
 
i understand why people trim there scrogs the other way and i used to do it myself. really there isnt much of a difference either way in the end its going to come down to your views and what you feel comfortable with.


Well, you do it how ya want Forget, I'm just trying to tell a Newb, the PROPER way to do a scrog by trimming the undergrowth, which is what he asked about. After he has got it done the RIGHT way he can play around with ya theories.
You say it's rubbish cleaning under the screen mate , but makes more sense to you to do ABOVE the screen, thats just retarded.
 
The top where you DO get light shouold be left alone, leaves gather energy from light to produce buds........buds don't collect nearly as much....... lol. And you do not increase lower bud size by trimming upper fan leaves....... it doesnt shift energy in the plant.... they just get more light. Think of the fan leaves as big water pumps and solar panels..... take them off while the plant is growing, you reduce it's efficiency.
Saying that though, I am all for defolation late in flower if thats ya thing, but you don't defoliate healthy growing plants.

Those leaves you leave under your screen are just draining excess power from ya plants as they try to keep em alive when they are getting minimal light and are basically useless, trim it all off.......taking off just the shoots is half a job.

Sometimes I wonder where you scientists get ya misguided theories on how plants grow...... basic 101 horticulture classes for you all and less farkin Pootube and online crap.

:peace: Nibbler
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