Online Cannabis Contamination & Potency Survey

[pipeman]

Robbie I have trouble understanding how you can be this paranoid online yet happily pull up to your house with a hydro system strapped to the roof of your car for everyone to see.

 

If cops wanted to bust small time growers it would be quite easy they'd just tag license plate numbers of people who visit hydro stores, or indeed, set upa hydro store themselves. there is no need for them to be fucking about online, especially when this would be a state police operation and members of this site are spread across different states and countries.

 

reality is growers are busted by accident or when somebody narcs on them.

Edited March 17, 2007 by pipeman

[freddie]

Hi Freddie. I'm on your side mate, unless you're against cannabis, so 'what's the point' of your caustic reply there?

 

Hey Mullaway, I posted in haste when i was feeling frustrated and I'm sorry it came out that way. My apologies. I am on your side and i enjoy your posts. I just think things are getting a little paranoid.

 

I think we'll have to beg to differ on this one. Time will tell.

[silent-toker]

i wont comment on the survey but personally i doubt the cops would infiltrate OSA to get a few busts,

unless someone had a breeding/cloning or commercial scale op going and was silly enough to post it

 

i imagine that to the police, this site is a source of information helping more people to think and understand facts about marijuana,it teaches how to grow and increases public access to MJ which must piss them off

OSA may have say 50 growers max who are active posters but it most likely supports a network of growers with the resources it provides

wouldnt they try to stop the message spreading rather than nab the few growers on here

 

S-T

[Mulcontent]

Thanks Mul .. its a pity they couldnt spare the time to come and talk with us from the begining

 

as for the lack of information available , for starters the DEA compiles a yearly report on illegal drugs in Aust.

there was even a Royal commision into cannabis use in Aust. and they still dont know anything ??? .. nothing has changed

 

 

 

To run a proper info gathering survey you must follow some guidelines which is what these people do , they have approached this site so they could get people to participate , to copy info from various posts is not a legit way for them and is not giving them the answers they are wanting directly, which is " However, Australian cannabis is rarely tested, and we know little about the views of users and others associated with the cannabis market regarding potency/strength. "

My uncle used to work for them before the internet and conducted street polls , imagine some hairy uni guy coming up on the street and asking you if you grew pot ?

Sure various agencies compile info on bust stats etc but thats not what these guys are after which is "With your help, this survey aims to gain a better understanding of issues relating to potency and the possible presence of contaminants in Australian cannabis "

Once they have some usable stats they will "With the information we gain, we hope to obtain further funding and conduct an analysis of cannabis seizures to measure potency and screen for any contaminants that this study may identify"

 

Obviously if this info was readily available they wouldnt need to access it , the DEA is an American drug agency so I can't see what relevant info they would produce seeming that they do not operate here or hold amounts of cannibis seized here.

Aussie weed tested in Australia by an Australian agency is what it's about

[Guest niall]

Most hilarious thread ever

[RobbieGanjaSeed]

This is what I'm talking about surveys, if The NSW university wanted to find out what additives were in commercial grass, they would easily be able to access the seized grass at busts withthe right court permission, and it does happen. trying to convince ANYONE against their position based on what smokers said about their own grass is as valuable for research as asking a pervert if he is a dnager to the children. Asking a fox if he will hurt he chicks..it's information that would simply beseen as unrelaible. Only proper chemical scietific testing of the weed itself would make worthy research.

 

I've read here that people feel that because it's NSW reasearch, no way could the results be scewered. hell, the gov (howard) cut the CSIRO funding, forcing them to make themselves available to funding from the business community. Now big chemical companies and so forth have been using the CSIRO, and you don't think some prety valid accusations haven't flowed from that?

 

Having said that, it could be part of a larger research, but is still only going tobe the very most untrusted part. Ask pipeman what scientists think of "opinion" in science matters. If it can't b cut up, meausred and held up to the light, it's not evidence.

 

But that's just how I see surveys.

 

Pipeman (you know how to get a bite huh), I don't feel parenoid, although I bet it doesn't look that way. that's how people usually see things though. If someone makes a passionate appeal, people automatically belive they have a vested interest, if someone makes a insistant call of security, then they must be frightened etc.. But it's really not the case. It's exactly as I said in one of the last posts I made, that this thread has opened an interesting oporrtunity to see how people see their place in all this. Hell, forget the survey, it's the underlying thougths and comments thathave me interested. How could I be paranoid aboutit, I decided immediately I saw it I wasn't going to be part of it. No scary stuff in this for me mate.

 

You're dead right on a lot of matters though, but those right things don't tell the whole story. Going to hydro shops and busting people would be easier, but not worth the insane legal trouble the hydro industy and the growing number of legitamate tomatoe and strawberry growers would stand for, in my block alone (that I can see) twopeople grow hydroponic and it's just tomatoes and strawberries. Hydropnics is becoming avery mainstream activity, and chasing everyone from hydro shops would cause a world of crap, either in wrong busts, or in the masses of surveilance needed onec the home is identified to be sure it's agrow.

And what's more targetted by cops than actually acts of crime, is flagrant disregard for their acts of crime. that gets a personal thing going.

 

I remember during the justice course I did, the cops used to have an entire (still do I imagine) block on "us against the piblic" kinda thing. They spoke of how "crims" spend most of their life playing cat and mouse, how public support or lovaebale larican crims has in the past frustrated police efforts, from ned kelly to the post card robber of the 80s, and some other famous crim I forget who was well hidden by the public in the 80s.

but the point is, I could tell this aggrevted them above all else; the cat and mouse game played against them I mean. And Iknow kn-one here would be silly enough to do it intentionally, but that's what Imean by the people who see their authority as ultimate would take some of this very personal. Not to mention as you have personal familiarity with the medical world, I have so with the cop world. My cousin was (I can't say exacty) but a very, very senior detecive seargent, and so I offered all I knew for my freinds here. that's all.

 

I swear I feel no paraoia or persoanl trouble what-so-ever.

 

I made it as clear as possible I wasn't keen on the survey for my own prsonal reasons about how surveys are used to give slanted results, and frequently stated i didn't know or particularly see that this was a cop trap. just that the comments I read "I'm not worth busting", "only admin is worth busting" "cops would leave a trail back to themselves (common, do you reallythink so?..)" "private institutions are free from manipulation"..all the kinds of things that will bring a crim to thier end.

 

When the people who were busted in the heaven's Stairway bust were on their way to their "lamd to the slaughter" meeting with the cops that busted them, each and every one woul dhave had that thought pass through their mind "I'm not worth busting, I'm too small.." Reading between the lines, the people that actually were what one would assume was big enough to bust refused to go to the meeting. Things people who lost their seeds, but didn't show up to be busted in that sting said to themselves "i'm not going, cause this is sus." How many do you think were laughed at by their mates for paranoia?

 

It's just that I, like those I read here, have at time become so comortable with the way the war on drugs is leaving me alone, I forget I'm actually a criminal. I hate the idea, I do nothing to deseve it, and hence I don't feel it, but to the cops and gov, I most certainly am. A small grower, a commercial grower, a smoker, a seller?..a criminal. Until the law changes we have to remeber it.

 

At times, I've forgotten this beause the gov does realise it's lost the war(I'm sure), and only goes throughthe motions, where you are absolutley right. the chances of being busted come down to only one of two mjor reasons. One is bad luck..i.e. the cops come through the house on a wrong address warrant, they look in through the window while chasing a person who has leapt over your fence and run off, or by people actaully squeeling on ya.

 

there is a third and entirely real possability here through, and that's self incrimination. It's just the opportunity doesn't offen avail itself. It coul dbe though the "third" chance is really just what leads to being dobbed is what makes people miss it.

 

I wrote what actually ended up an 8 page word document about security but I deleted it for fear of creating hysteria and paranoia, which is the fine line between what I want to say, and what I don't want to happen. Idon't want paranoia to destroy the fun people have, but so many people who have been busted have not been brought undone becuase of the two most common ways, they've simly forgotten they were criminals and stopped acting accordingly. So they start to talk to the wrong people, talk too loud perhaps at night about how their cropis doing, they wear T shits that say :"hey, I'm a smoker", or some other thing that actually leads to one of the common ways ie. being dobbed.

 

Bt just for a mind game, ask yourself, if you were the cops.. how would you bust people here. Times is on our side. Warrants for IP addresses would be known quickly, and crops dumped. it'd have to be something clever.

 

But even though the gov hasn't (prob ever) any belief in eradecating drugs, they have to make a show, and govs win or loose their jobs based on "crime prevation", and as said, this site is really getting big. From the outset I always wanted to see this site get this big, and dreamt of it, it's now in the position it could do some good. but it's also an "in ya face" to people who take stuff personal, like cops, and politicians who are "anti-us".

 

I myself have had emails from people who were undoubtably cops, when I was fronting a web site just like this. These people would ask stupid questions with language more akin to some american movie than Australian smoker language, an if I was silly enough to imcriminatemyself, it would have happened.

 

I could go on for ages about it ll, but I'm not paranoid, and I'm not against making myslef public to make apoint for grass. But I wont do it for nothing, and in the end, as I said, I have only been pointing out the dangerous attitudes I mentioned. well, dangerous in my opinion. I don't mean to offend anyone, after all, we're all free agents right?

 

IF the cops ever target these sites, it wont be to get admin, IP addreses and then hope like hell those big grows they saw still existed as they werte online. Dead set, it'll be much smoother than that.

 

Will they target the site? Idon't know and don't but I do know just one single thing if they do ever tager the site, it will only be through self-incrimination we have anything to fear on this site.

 

Not because it's something that obsesses me about my own safety. Hell if you only knew the stupid things I've done and not been worried about it. I only have contributed for the sake of consideration, not personal gain, nnor tosend paranoid delusions through the thread.

 

I have to attend a meetingthis week, a police intervention on Tuesday for a young bloke. To try and keep him out of prison for something he's done. I visit young kids in jail all the time that I've been involved with in the community work I do, I have had worked in the police records of the QLD police headquarters, and I have family who have reached the highest, the very highest levels of policing in this state.

 

I only wanted to dispell the naive views I was reading. I just hoped what I said could be taken "onboard" for general terms, eithe rin this survey or otherwise, but my concern hasn't been for myself, rather , it's been for the wrong beliefs I've read.

 

Which is why i said, "i don't want to tell people what to play, just be careful who you play with"

and "I'm not saying this survey is cop bait, I just think people should not see themselevs as not worthy of a bust" (no-one is every worthy of a bust, and most people, no matter how big or small their op is feels that same way).

I once shared a lift with two uniformed cops on the way up to the cafeteria on police headquarters top floor. The one cop was bragging about his "marijauna bust". the other was well inpressed. He busted a kid with a joint. It went on his record as a good thing, and they were patting each other on the back.

3d floor of that same building (QLD headquarters) was usually hardly possible to move around on for al the grog they busted at un-liscenced premisses, and it was often sold to anyone that wanted some , the money being added tot heir xmas party fund. So I know what cops are like, and I know because of their corruption it appears they don't care, but it's not so. they care in minute detail as a rule.

 

I've also been involved with a bloke who grew next door to me. The cops parked out he front of his house each day for a week or two. A dead end street came around th eback of our houses (rightinto his backyard in fact) and they were parking there too. i wanred him as he was at owrk each and every day. he laughed at me that I was aranoid etc.

In the end they moved on him.

But amzingly, they did it by phone (brunswick heads in the lates 80s) and aske dif they wanted them to come around, or if he would visit them at Byron cop shop. Of course he went there.

he came home, loaded his plants into my garage under my lights, just meters from where the cops had arranged to search his place the day befopre, as he'd been dobbed in by his baby sitter.

 

the whole thing was a sham, lights still hanging, leaves scattered. they just left him alone.

 

But they did bust him a couple years later for far more than he had there that day. I am sure that was co-incidental, and not a specifi patient op of course. I'm just saying I have seen it go both ways. But it's not usually the smoothway is it? Unless I've been hanging around the wrong people I suppose.

 

I used to drink at the CIB police club, where every second copper was of course, a CIB memeber. I'm not scared, and I have no affiliation with coppers at all anymore (not even my cousin, for black has no association with white We used to be mates, but years in that job changed him).. bt I do know what I'm saying is based on a more relaisitic view of the situation than "i'm not worth it, I'm just a small person".

 

they walk dog around the citys all day long hoping to get people with a little stash in their pocket on their way to a mate's place. You think they've seen the pictures posted on dope sites and not wondered how they can get at it? They'll spend all that money to get people with what they can carry in a back pocket, and you think we're not big enough for an operation?

again, nothing to fear here except self incrimination.

 

this, and not the survey(per sae), is all I wanted to address.

 

Please, for peace sake, I don't want to aggreavte you mate. Nor do I want to scare anyone, which is why again and again, I have said "you can't be busted onthis site without self incrimination", so please don't let my way of seeing things make anyone frighten off.

The site is good, the site is all I dreamt it would be when ozstoner kicked it off all those years ago. I'm not leaving, and it would appear I'm the most paranoid.

 

I hope that explains something, that's all.

 

I wont do the survey for the reaosns I said, "open and honest" help only makes sense in an "open and honest" community. I simply detest surveys. Real research is rarely based on such means. And no-one ever overturned law that I know, with the weight of surveys. If anyone wants to particpate becuase they believe they might actually be scared of the gov propaganda of smokers mind being blown apart, or becuase they don't know what danger is involved in spraying DDT will get far more information from their library than this kind of action.

I will, and have been and will again be involved in real research. Prof Hall was someone I exchanged emails with for a while. An ex head of scotland yard exchnaged emails with ozstoner for a while, and various other amazing things (amazing to me). I'm all for law reform. I'll even front a bris 31 Tv show (which oz knows I believe is the next step for this site. I think he disagrees on the subject)and have made enquiries to them about such a show(not in th ename of thes ite, just my own name). I'm not overly-paranoid.

But as I keep saying about the survey "that's just me.."

 

cheers rob.

 

ps. No-one ever sees their child growing up (unless you're buying their clothes), nor sees their puppy growing. But I was away fora couple years, and when I came back I was gob smacked how big this site has become. That's probably something you might not see too..

 

I sincerely only mean the best. I know too many people in jail already, and that's no joke, and not paranoid.

every young person I've warnd that if they didn;t stop what they were doing they'd go to jail laughed. (these rarely were smokers, but more like typical silly kids), but each and every one of them, when I see them for the first time throughthe glass of the lock up at the local cop shopis whitea sa sheet. Going from unsafely comfotable to white as a sheet takes minutes and the whole world gets turned upside-down when they realise they really were in danger. They just didn't "feel" it.

 

Again, there is no "danger"here.

[pipeman]

Bt just for a mind game, ask yourself, if you were the cops.. how would you bust people here. Times is on our side. Warrants for IP addresses would be known quickly, and crops dumped. it'd have to be something clever.

 

it'd be dead simple IMO. Forget the hydro shop idea, that involves too much overheads and capital purchases. I'd start an online seed shop. Just the same as most of the others around, become a sponser of the site. It wouldn't be long before you got a fair database of people ordering seeds. And if you got an address or PO Box of someone who has ordered an illegal product, I can't imagine search warrants would be hard to get. In fact I know they wouldn't, as there have been a couple of busts from members here due to seed orders being intercepted.

 

but bottom line is, we're not worth busting so we can take the silly risks we take by ordering seeds and hydro gear online and posting pics of our grows without worrying too much.

[RobbieGanjaSeed]

You talk about overhead and capital investment being limiting, all they'd have to do is prove a single person bought grow gear from a particular shop, and they could warrant the records of the grow shop's sale tranfers, and it's incredible that most people pay with credit cards, debit cards at hydro shops (hell I do). Just ask ya local hydro bloke, a guy I know that runs one often mentions how insane he considers people for doing so. It'd be dead easy, but still, you missed the point. My point has been in the event the site was targetted, not just blithering away time wondering how could cops stop the world from growing dope effectively.

 

I've don't want to go over it again, but I will say though people don't not get busted here becuase they aren't worth it (are you kidding?), it's becasue of good security and they haven't incriminated themselves..by your assumptions, they wouldn't walk sniffer dogs through the community. You think people are going to have a pound in their pocket every bust by sniffer dogs? Or are they fully aware the average bust if going to be screwed up bit of alfoil with a bud in it? But still they consider all that expense, and PR trouble worth it, and still it goes on.

 

It's safe to post here because the site has gone to great lengths to make it safe, and people are smart enough to not go about contacting anyone outside the site to say what they're up to. Time taken to arrange "re-actionary" police methods makes it almost impossible to catch what they see on web sites in real time. This makes us safe. No way can they go from warrant, to IP, to surveylance for the whole site of suspects and expect to keep it quiet. I never said it was hard to get warrants, I know how easy they are to get. I said they would alert the site if they tried to get the IPs with warrants; hence we are safe in that way, and the only danger is to make self incriminating statements.

 

You were on the money when you began to ponder how to bust people, you didn't go for the "re-actionary" style, you went with clever. That's all I was saying, and you automatically agreed even if you still don't see it. Whatever "clever" they use, it will be by decievibng people into thinking they're doing something safe, and not actually communicating with the police. I don't think you're aware of how much you agreed with all I said. Tactics would vary, but it's esentially the very same move, and the very same dulled sense of awareness that would bring a person undone. why do you think people only order from reputed seed banks and strill have it mailed to "safe addresses"? Why do that, and then race off in reply to "who here grows and sells dope?" without at least wondeirng what's up. kinda skistoid isn't it?

 

After all, a very big grower would be far more sensible to fly to amsterdam and select his seeds, and send them home himself. It'd cost very little effectively, and hence, everyone ordering seeds online considers themselves "not worth the bust". But you yourself again agreed they are indeed worththe bust.

 

I don't think I'll bother posting anymore in this thread because I don't want to cause alarm, but I do feel for anyone that is lulled into such nonsesne as as "I'm not worth it".

 

hell, ignorance is bliss. Believe what you want man.

 

cheers

rob

[pipeman]

anyone had their door kicked in yet? me neither. I'll check back again in a few months just to make sure. we may not be out of danger just yet...

[Indycar]

haha, i doubt anyone will get their door kicked in either, just for filling in a survey. My beef was mainly about who your jumping into bed with.

 

Remember the last mob that thought they'd side up with a gov. All that managed to happen was tighter legislation introduced in their state...

 

Only if your unfortunate to go down later and IF new hardline legislation is bought in, it may turn around bite ya and others on the arse. Dunno if i'd like to carry the guilt of something like that... It's a big IF, but as history has shown before, it's quite possible.