docs liquid carbon

[pipeman]

Ferengi c02 may benefit the roots, but that don't mean you add it to the res.

[wassily]

CO2 will produce more mass, both root and flower, and will also speed up curing of buds in jars,but it is heavier than air and will sink to the bottom of the growroom. It's better to deliver it via an intake fan that blows over the top of the canopy. The homemade stuff I've seen is brewers yeast mixed with water and sugar. This can make a difference, but it needs to be in a pretty big container, like 10 litre or it's a pain in the ass to replace every second day.

I've roadtested this stuff called "CO2 encricha", a green powder you mix with water, or set up water to drip into for slow release of CO2. It's about 45 bucks for a jar. One dose (30ml) per sq metre is suggested. It definately makes a difference in yield, but is really only good for small setups around a sq metre, and has to be introduced manually each day.

The point about venting is valid - you have to have your exhaust off or it all just get's wasted. I found it best to use about 10 min after lights on before it gets too hot. In addition the CO2 will cause the temps to rise, similar to the greenhouse effect we all hear about, so it's hard to use if your box has heat problems. And don't forget the plants can't use CO2 when it's dark. www.co2enricha.com

cheers

V

[F420]

Ferengi c02 may benefit the roots, but that don't mean you add it to the res.

 

Umm actually you can, all you do is have the hose from the yeast mix connected to an airstone and the air stone in the water.

 

I have done it for years in my fish tanks. Co2 keeps algae in check and encourages accelerated growth

 

Here are some websites on Co2 in the water, Now they are based on fishtanks with aqua plants. However all the same ideas are relevant to roots in water.

 

http://nucalf.physics.fsu.edu/pfohl/Fish/Diy/co2

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/co2-pvc.html

http://www.ee.pdx.edu/~davidr/discus/articles/co2.html

http://members.iinet.net.au/~aquotix/Carbon-Dioxide.html

[pipeman]

Ferengi c02 may benefit the roots, but that don't mean you add it to the res. 

 

Umm actually you can, all you do is have the hose from the yeast mix connected to an airstone and the air stone in the water.

 

I have done it for years in my fish tanks. Co2 keeps algae in check and encourages accelerated growth

 

Here are some websites on Co2 in the water, Now they are based on fishtanks with aqua plants. However all the same ideas are relevant to roots in water.

 

http://nucalf.physics.fsu.edu/pfohl/Fish/Diy/co2

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/co2-pvc.html

http://www.ee.pdx.edu/~davidr/discus/articles/co2.html

http://members.iinet.net.au/~aquotix/Carbon-Dioxide.html

I am afraid you are somewhat misguided on this matter Ferengi.

 

fishtanks are a different story for obvious reasons I would've though.

 

roots need oxygen, not c02.

[F420]

http://www.co2science.org/subject/questions/1999/roots.htm

 

 

Question:

I would like to know if the root systems of plants take in CO2.  I have searched the net for weeks and still haven't been able to find any information saying that this is possible; but I haven't found any saying it's not.  So, could you help me out and settle the pain?

Submitted by: Troy Mackay

 

Answer:

Yes, it is hard to find information on this topic; we could find none on the net either.  However, we quote below an extensive passage from the book Carbon Dioxide and Global Change: Earth in Transition, written and published by our father in 1989:

 

"Although several investigators have claimed that plants should receive little direct benefit from dissolved CO2 (Stolwijk et al., 1957; Skok et al., 1962; Splittstoesser, 1966), a number of experiments have produced significant increases in root growth (Erickson, 1946; Leonard and Pinckard, 1946; Geisler, 1963; Yorgalevitch and Janes, 1988), as well as yield itself (Kursanov et al., 1951; Grinfeld, 1954; Nakayama and Bucks, 1980; Baron and Gorski, 1986), with CO2-enriched irrigation water.  Early on, Misra (1951) suggested that this beneficent effect may be related to CO2-induced changes in soil nutrient availability; and this hypothesis may well be correct.  Arteca et al. (1979), for example, have observed K, Ca and Mg to be better absorbed by potato roots when the concentration of CO2 in the soil solution is increased; while Mauney and Hendrix (1988) found Zn and Mn to be better absorbed by cotton under such conditions, and Yurgalevitch and Janes (1988) found an enhancement of the absorption of Rb by tomato roots.  In all cases, large increases in either total plant growth or ultimate yield accompanied the enhanced uptake of nutrients.  Consequently, as it has been suggested that CO2 concentration plays a major role in determining the porosity, plasticity and charge of cell membranes (Jackson and Coleman, 1959; Mitz, 1979), which could thereby alter ion uptake and organic acid production (Yorgalevitch and Janes, 1988), it is possible that some such suite of mechanisms may well be responsible for the plant productivity increases often observed to result from enhanced concentrations of CO2 in the soil solution."

 

References

Arteca, R.N., Pooviah, B.W. and Smith, O.E.  1979.  Changes in carbon fixation, tuberization, and growth induced by CO2 applications to the root zones of potato plants.  Science 205: 1279-1280.

 

Baron, J.J. and Gorski, S.F.  1986.  Response of eggplant to a root environment enriched with CO2.  HortScience 21: 495-498.

 

Erickson, L.C.  1946.  Growth of tomato roots as influenced by oxygen in the nutrient solution.  American Journal of Botany 33: 551-556.

 

Geisler, G.  1963.  Morphogenetic influence of (CO2 + HCO3-) on roots.  Plant Physiology 38: 77-80.

 

Grinfeld, E.G.  1954.  On the nutrition of plants with carbon dioxide through the roots.  Dokl. Akad. Nauk SSSR 94: 919-922.

 

Idso, S.B.  1989.  Carbon Dioxide and Global Change: Earth in Transition.  IBR Press, Tempe, AZ.

 

Jackson, W.A. and Coleman, N.T.  1959.  Fixation of carbon dioxide by plant roots through phosphoenolpyruvate carboxylase.  Plant and Soil 11: 1-16.

 

Kursanov, A.L., Kuzin, A.M. and Mamul, Y.V.  1951.  On the possibility for assimilation by plants of carbonates taken in with the soil solution.  Dokl. Akad. Nauk SSSR 79: 685-687.

 

Leonard, O.A. and Pinckard, J.A.  1946.  Effect of various oxygen and carbon dioxide concentrations on cotton root development.  Plant Physiology 21: 18-36.

 

Mauney, J.R. and Hendrix, D.L.  1988.  Responses of glasshouse grown cotton to irrigation with carbon dioxide-saturated water.  Crop Science 28: 835-838.

 

Misra, R.K.  1951.  Further studies on the carbon dioxide factor in the air and soil layers near the ground.  Indian Journal of Meteorology and Geophysics 2: 284-292.

 

Mitz, M.A.  1979.  CO2 biodynamics: A new concept of cellular control.  Journal of Theoretical Biology 80: 537-551.

 

Nakayama, F.S. and Bucks, D.A.  1980.  Using subsurface trickle system for carbon dioxide enrichment.  In Jensen, M.H. and Oebker, N.F. (eds) Proceedings of the 15th Agricultural Plastics Congress, National Agricultural Plastics Association, Manchester, MO, pp. 13-18.

 

Skok, J., Chorney, W. and Broecker, W.S.  1962.  Uptake of CO2 by roots of Xanthium plants.  Botanical Gazette 124: 118-120.

 

Yorgalevitch, C.M. and Janes, W.H.  1988.  Carbon dioxide enrichment of the root zone of tomato seedlings.  Journal of Horticultural Science 63: 265-270.

 

Splittstoesser, W.E.  1966.  Dark CO2 fixation and its role in the growth of plant tissue.  Plant Physiology 41: 755-759.

 

Stolwijk, J.A.J. and Thimann, K.V.  1957.  On the uptake of carbon dioxide and bicarbonate by roots and its influence on growth.  Plant Physiology 32: 513-520.

[Nath]

Wow, that's amazing... do you personally add co2 to the roots, Ferengi? I would've agreed with piperman, I thought it was oxygen for roots, co2 for foliage. Hardly any MJ indoor growers add co2 to the rest, this would be awesome for a drip system setup.. doubt it would be that good with dwc though. Those links give me a bit more reading to do, thanks

[F420]

No, I dont use CO2.

But Co2 is something I have been thinking about lately, and that site was one of the first I found.

 

I have used CO2 in my fishtanks for ages though, the plants LOVE the bit of extra Co2 I give them.

[Nath]

What would be the best method of adding it? I mean, grow method, I will be having two plants per 44l tub in 30cm pots, but the pots will be sitting on top of the lid, not actually immersed in the nutrient solution. I have two tubs and four plants, at the moment... I'll try this with one of the tubs soon, probably most likely next week. I have to get a camera sometime soon, but Im just busy paying off the electric bill of $600 for three months, from stupid electric heaters. I think the co2 would work good in a DWC setup too? Also, would a SOG setup intake and transfer nutrients and co2 and oxygen from the roots to the foliage any better? Since its smaller.. or would it not matter all that much. I dont really like the SOG idea, just in case anything happens to my place, too many plants at once.

[F420]

its more suited to DWC, NFT< turbo tanks etc where the roots are in the water.

Also becareful at first with the PH as the extra co2 can alter your Ph readings.

 

Other than that just take a look through those links, its describes to use a diffuser on the end of an airline etc.

[Chev]

Thanx for the above info Ferengi, bloody useful!

Sounds like something I can play around with, got a nice mum in a bubbler.......need it a fair bit bigger