does anyone here know law as going to

[pipeman]

I tend to think its safer to say nothing. Take advice from the lawyer trying to help you not the cops trying to bust you. But always be courteous and respectful to cops if you can. Just politely explain, without being a smartass, that you think its best if you didn't say anything. If a cop wants to be a cunt to you after that well so be it, its out of your control. All the more reason to shut up and wait to speak with your lawyer.

[Roadblock]

Hi

 

Just to add ,

 

If you are caught red handed , with a room full of mull in your house , you are guilty , of cultivation , no argument ! if you are saying its personal which you will , you are also charged with use .

Now those are the only charges you should end up with , unless you tell them more .

 

At this point your goal is to get the least kick in the arse in court as you can , so stay calm , they are just people doing a job , treat it like a chess game , and have most of your moves worked out prior .

 

When the police first bang on the door and issue you the warrant , they will ask you if you have drugs on the premises , don't say no if your back shed is full of it and or its in any easy place to find , saying yes here converts to cooperating with the police come court day , big brownie pts .

 

If you say no and they find it , which they will (talking grow rooms etc) establishes 2 things to them , you are a liar and are uncooperating .

 

I look at the police as the audience and the judge is the director , don't be scared of the police , and don't have a dirty attitude its to late to be macho and you don't want to bur them up , its all about acting you know , you set up the scene during the police raid and interview and the grand performace is on court day , where your role is a harmless novice that made a silly mistake !

 

In the eyes of the cops only experienced crims clam up and want to talk to a lawyer before saying anything especially if they have done time , in my opinion its not smart , the smart thing to do is talk if you are caught red handed , but be very shrewd in what you say when they try and verbal you , talk about the weather , the footy , talk about your old mum will have a heart attack if she found out , crap that don't mean nothing , it all goes towards you being a total novice and the one they caught you with is the first time you have ever tried it .

 

If you say something like , you bought all the lights etc at the market , and they ask you for a receipt , don't turn all red and umm and ahh like a dummy , say yeah sure , the receipts will be in the house somewhere , not quite sure where , but you will be able to produce them if you have to .

They will look at each other and drop the probe .

 

When you lie to them , be straight faced look em the eye confident and base your lie on facts , if it sounds believable you are half way home .

 

I was caught 16 yrs ago with what they weighed at 50kg , I fronted caught by my self , gave the judge my story and walked with a $2000 fine , I questioned the weight with the size of the area and the number of plants 11 , pointing out for comparison football field size crops , and I gave the judge a story about if he went to the market and bought 5 pd of apples and he received 1 apple and a large piece of trunk how would he feel ,

My goal was to get the judge to relate to my situation , the apples did that , , he nearly fell of his chair when 50kg was stated , , so did I

 

I just recent went to supreme with 6kg dried and 200 clones , result of a prick neighbor , I walked with a suspend 6mths and got all 90% my gear back .

 

Believe me you can talk to police and it works out better if you are good at it and can talk while making no admissions , and its an art you can learn !

 

Interviewing methods are taught to police , learn how to deal with their tactics , the net has a lot of good material , you can start at this site .

 

http://www.keepyoursecrets.com/

 

Good luck to all you guys

Rod

[garywmeyerhoff]

Hi

 

I have a bit of experience in dealing with the police on a personal level, and I have also been employed in positions where I have been a responsible adult who has sat in on police interviews.

 

In 2002, I was one of the founding members of NAP in Darwin, and since then I have had about 35 criminal charges laid against me. I have represented myself and have won in about 75% of the cases. SOme are still outstanding.

 

The first rule is - don't say anything to the police other than to give them your name and address. Answer NO COMMENT to all other questions. Any lawyer will tell you this. Even if you think they have got you red handed, you don't kinow what stuff ups are going to happen further down the line.

 

In my opinion, and that is all it is, you should never plead guily in drug matters and you should thow up all sorts of legal arguments and then wait and see what happens. The evidence may have gone missing, police witnesses may have left the force, and/ or the state, other witnesses may not be available.

 

Remember, in our criminal justice system, it must be proved BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT that you have committed the offence for you to be convicted. This is the prosecutions job to prove, and if you have said NO COMMENT to all police questions, then it is very hard for them.

 

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO AN INTERVIEW WITH THE POLICE. They will tell you that you have to do a recorded interview, that it is procedure. Tell them that you do not wish to do an interview and that you want to seek Legal Advice.

 

If you have been arrested, tell them you do not wish to do an interview and ask for bail. If they refuse bail, you can ask that they ring a magistrate and you can talk to the magistrate on the phone and ask for bail. (A magistrate is on duty 24 hours a day).

 

If bail is refused and you are remanded in custody, you will be able to ask for bail at your next court appearance.

 

You need to know some sick things about our justice system.

 

If you "cooperate" with police - the common law (the law made by judges) says that you should get a "discount" on your sentence if found guilty.

 

By answering NO COMMENT to police questions you can argue that you are cooperating with police. NO COMMENT is an answer. This will depend on the magistrate/judge though.

 

The earlier in a case that you plead guilty, the bigger "discount" you will receive on your sentence.

 

This is all pressure to get you to plead guilty. Legal Aid will also join in and encourage you to just plead guilty. Why? Because, if people dind't all plead guilty, the courts would grind to a halt, and the prosecution would fail miserably in 90% of the trials and hearings they conduct.

 

Never answer police questions.... just say NO COMMENT, and get legal advice.

 

Remember, if you are busted after hours or on weekends, and like most people, you don't have money or a private solicitor on retainer, you probably won't be able to get legal advice until the next business day. Bear this in mind when you ask the police for bail and tell them that you do not want to participate in an interview until you have got legal advice.

 

Also, if you are busted with an amount of drugs in a common part of a house, and there are a few of you present, if you all say NO COMMENT and don;'t admit possession of the drugs, the police can't prove beyond reasonable doubt who it belongs to.

 

This is different it the premises are a designated "drug house" or "drug premises". Then the police can charge everyone for possession and don't need to prove which individual it belonged to. I think this is only in the NT though. But, unless your house is a drug house, everyone should say NO COMMENT.

 

This is very hard (saying NO COMMENT) as the police are trained to interrogate you, and are trained to lie to you to get information. Things such as "your mate already told us it was yours" etc, are as a general rule, all lies. Be strong, don't let them get to you, and get legal advice when you get out of the cells.

 

And, just on bail, in some states, if you have over a certain amount of drugs, the presumption of bail is against you, this means, you do not automatically get bail like you do with other offences - this only applies to treason, murder and drugs, so keep this in mind.

 

If we all plead not guilty ( well at least those of us who do not risk going to jail on remand waiting for court) we will cause their justice system to grind to a halt.

Edited February 10, 2004 by garywmeyerhoff

[Roadblock]

"By answering NO COMMENT to police questions you can argue that you are cooperating with police. NO COMMENT is an answer. This will depend on the magistrate/judge though."

 

 

I know how the judge is going to look on this !

 

 

"Remember, in our criminal justice system, it must be proved BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT that you have committed the offence for you to be convicted. This is the prosecutions job to prove, and if you have said NO COMMENT to all police questions, then it is very hard for them."

 

This might supposed to happen but it don't , the legal premise is that it is better for 10 guilty men to walk free than for one innocent man to go jail , this is just bullshit , the guilt or innocence in many cases especially the lower courts is on the discretion of the judge and he is of the opinion that you are guilty and you must prove your innocence , this is the reality of our magistrates trials , where the magistrate is not a trial lawyer turn judge like the high courts but he was a clerk of courts who worked there way up to magistrate .

The figures relating to low court guilty sentences and high court overturned appeals is an interesting read .

 

"In my opinion, and that is all it is, you should never plead guily in drug matters and you should thow up all sorts of legal arguments and then wait and see what happens. The evidence may have gone missing, police witnesses may have left the force, and/ or the state, other witnesses may not be available."

 

And if you plead not guilty to something you cannot win and its obvious that you are guilty , you will get a royal kick in the arse for stuffing them around , use your common sense here.

 

"Never answer police questions.... just say NO COMMENT, and get legal advice."

 

Wrong , you are better of answering , but hear this , only answer what wont incriminate youself , if you carnt do that , he is right and say nothing .

 

"Also, if you are busted with an amount of drugs in a common part of a house, and there are a few of you present, if you all say NO COMMENT and don;'t admit possession of the drugs, the police can't prove beyond reasonable doubt who it belongs to."

 

Yep and you will all be charged with it and told to tell your story to the judge .

 

 

In all the posts in this thread , the advise is sound , it all depends on the circumstances of the bust , your priors etc .

 

Keep your wits about at all times .

 

Rod

[Guest]

thanks everyone for the good advice it wasnt my house the guy that dogged me in it was his house i was only staying there hes a drunk any one out there dont grow weed with a full on drunk i learnt the hard way,he come to me asked if i wanted to live there,will they need to speak to him as hes always drunk and could somone like that stand up in court?thanks again and goodluck to yas

[pipeman]

Rod, all that you say may well be true. The problem though is that some people simply don't have the gift of the gab, and not to be rude, but may be slow or just uneasy/nervous talking to people, especially cops, and may become flustered in that situation. So you can give them all the good coaching in the world, and they will still fuck it up and dig a hole for themselves. Some people are quite capable of talking/negotiating with police, others are useless. Remember we are stoners, not professional debaters. Just cause you can handle yourself dooesn't mean everyone can, and if you try to encourage people to do shit they are not really capable of, all they will do is make things worse for themselves. The worse thing is a lot of people have no bloody idea of how bad they are at talking themselves out of a losing situation. People are very poor judges of their own abilities.

[Roadblock]

Excellent point Pipeman , and you are right in what you are saying .

 

Another point I ment to make was so much depends on how the police come , if its after survailence on you and they come hard , say nothing , but if its after a phone in or they stumble across you , and its your first offence you can talk your way down an easy road .

 

But like Pipeman states if you are nervous with the cops , best say nothing because you can dig a big hole for yourself if you are not switched right on .

 

I suppose the best across the board advice I can offer is .

 

Clean up your rubbish after harvest and dump it off the premises as soon as possible .

 

Don't have any other type of scale on the premises except common kitchen scales and keep them in the kitchen.

 

Get rid of empty Nut containers straight away , better to have a few no label containers and empty the labeled Nuts into them , its easier to blow them of when they are not labeled

 

Don't have anything written down , from equipment reciepts to flowering

dates , especially money figures .

 

Don't have phone numbers and info on certain people in easy to get places .

 

Don't use your mobile phone to make lots of short to the same number phone calls , if you know what I mean , the itemized records will be got by the cops if you go down , if you need to talk business , don't be slack use a public phone or better still drive there .

 

Don't have cliploc bags in the house especially the real little ones

 

Invest in a kryovac foodsaver if you are transporting mull , and wipe the bag down after its sealed , try not to get residue on the out side of the bag ,, these are dogproof if nothing is on the outside of the bag

A good product to wipe the bag down is called ResinOff .

 

Be very carefull who you associate with because they can bring you down .

 

Keep your affairs real tight without being paranoid , don't take silly risks you don't have to because of paranoia and laziness !

 

Don't tell anybody that don't NEED to know what you are doing ! !

Hows it go, Loose Lips Sink Ships

 

Rod

[garywmeyerhoff]

Mate , in the lower courts , you are guilty the minute you walk through the door ,

This is not true. In the last two years I have beaten about 20 charges in the lower courts, without a lawyer! I suppose it depends where you are but sometimes the prosecution is so incomepetent it is hard to lose!

 

You can read about some of the cases at http://www.napnt.org

 

and here is a case where i was charged with criminal damage for sticking up posters, and they got me on video, and i still got not guilty.

 

http://www.nt.gov.au/ntsc/doc/judgements/2...mc/ntmc009.html

 

and one we lost

 

http://www.nt.gov.au/ntsc/doc/judgements/2...mc/ntmc027.html

[Roadblock]

Hi

 

Man , Im talking about criminal charges ,not protests , waving signs , or disrupting the peace type deals , charges that can carry heavy penalties even jail .

Mate Ive beaten a lot of no account stuff to in the lower courts also , but thats not what Im refering to , in this forum I am talking specificly about drug charges and felony charges .

 

Cheers Rod

[garywmeyerhoff]

Man , Im talking about criminal charges ,not protests , waving signs , or disrupting the peace type deals , charges that can carry heavy penalties even jail .

Rod

 

all of the charges I am talking about were criminal charges in the magistrate's court in darwin. Since NAP was formed in 2002 to fight for the rights of drug users in the NT, our members have copped 135 criminal charges. We have beaten 75% of these without lawyers.

 

Ok, so the criminal damage charges against NAP members are pretty insignificant, 35 charges in all, we beat all of them.

 

But we have also beaten assault police and resist arrest, both charges that attract a jail term.

 

And most seriously, we beat a charge of "business invasion" for a peaceful occupation we did in 2002. "Business invasion" is a new offence in the NT and has a maximum penalty of 7 years jail.

 

We have also beaten an "escape lawful custody" charge.

 

We still have a number of outstanding matters -

 

Trial in the Supreme Court for 6th Smoke-in incident in October 2002 - charges include assault police and damage a police car (damage over $5000)

 

Trial in the Supreme Court for the occupation of the Chief Ministers office on the day the "drug house" laws became law in the NT. - we are charged with business invasion and face 7 years jail if convicted.

 

2 x Appeals in front of one Judge in the Supreme Court. One of these is for an appeal against conviction for disrupting the legislative assembly on the 14th May 2002. For this 5 of use were sentenced to between 14 and 21 months jail, suspended after we serve 4 or 5 months each. This was a placrard waving exercise by the way, but was also a criminal charge.

 

And we have one case up to the Full Bench of the NT Supreme Court - appeal against a conviction for trespassing.

 

Ok so these are not drug cases - one person was charged with possession of cannabis early on, but after they pleaded not guilty, the charge was dropped! Funny that! The principles are the same regardless.

 

To read more about our court cases and NAP campaigns click here

Edited February 12, 2004 by garywmeyerhoff