tri-node clone

[Luke Skywalker]

coolbudz I have grown a triploid

 

What evidence did you have for this and where did the plant come from? Were cell smear chromosome counts done or was it simply "wow, this is a weird plant and we can't seem to breed from it therefore it must be a triploid".

 

@astro Good luck with the babies, always hard when they suddely give up on you for what seems like no reason.

[coolbudz]

Hi...luke sorry mate cant show any pic's (5years ago)..the old site have gone and so have the pics (that happens when computers die) were did i get it..I got seeds from a member of 1 of the old sites as i said it was BigBud.. Did i do a cell smear chromosome count ??? ..I'm not a fucken scientist i smoke pot and I'm a stoners ... when she grow..the first little leaves the grow (you know the oval ones..dont know what ya call them..i, m not a scientist ) it had three..not 2..when it grew..it grew 3 sets of the first real leaves..when it branched..it grew 3 branches at each and every node on each and every stem all the way to the end of flowering But the strange thing was how the stem grew...it flattened out like a ribbon...

you get to see some thing by my age......even tri's...hahahaha

 

later

Edited November 30, 2009 by coolbudz

[Luke Skywalker]

Fasciation of the stem is not indicative of triploid (3n) status. It happens with normal plants all the time. Even getting a true polyploid plant is hard enough requiring very, very large numbers of seeds and treatment with poisonous substances to induce it. On top of this, there would have had to be a secondary breeding operation to produce the triploid plant.

 

Sorry to be a downer but you most likely just had a mutant with stem fasciation. A cell smear would be the only way to know if it was a polyploid or triploid plant. As I said, it's easy to say "hey I found a weird plant it must be a triploid" but the reality is that this is a species that is so far from its ancestral roots it's like comparing the original wolf/dog to a pekinese and great dane. All kinds of funky stuff in between.

 

Oh, and afaik big bud has been known to be a difficult cloner. A couple of friends have grown it a few years back and found similar difficulties in maintaining a line.

[coolbudz]

Fasciation of the stem is not indicative of triploid (3n) status. It happens with normal plants all the time. Even getting a true polyploid plant is hard enough requiring very, very large numbers of seeds and treatment with poisonous substances to induce it. On top of this, there would have had to be a secondary breeding operation to produce the triploid plant.

 

Sorry to be a downer but you most likely just had a mutant with stem fasciation. A cell smear would be the only way to know if it was a polyploid or triploid plant. As I said, it's easy to say "hey I found a weird plant it must be a triploid" but the reality is that this is a species that is so far from its ancestral roots it's like comparing the original wolf/dog to a pekinese and great dane. All kinds of funky stuff in between.

 

Oh, and afaik big bud has been known to be a difficult cloner. A couple of friends have grown it a few years back and found similar difficulties in maintaining a line.

 

 

how do you my friend explain the three sets of leaves and branches and bud sites ????...sorry to break it to ya...there are many poeple growing around the place...some better than me, some worse..but i can tell you what it was..just because you have never had one , or seen one...dont mean they arnt around...

and i have heard of others too...open ya eyes

 

later

 

a link to other threads on tri's and quad's...

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=53476

this is what they looked like..the same

Colchicine is the poison you refer to...it's in gout tables and has been used since around 500AD to successfully treat gout

soak ya seeds in it for 24 hour then plant....some will not come up...from the plants that grows , you pollinate them, save the seeds, throw away the plant (not to be smoke...suppose to poison you, not know about that thou) plant the seeds and the results are strong \potant plants and it will produce tri's and quad's

Have you ever done that ? I have got one plant from the soak..it was a male

Edited December 3, 2009 by coolbudz

[coolbudz]

a couple of pics I found on my hard drive.

[Luke Skywalker]

I don't want to sound like a wanker but you're talking to an orchid grower about inducing polyploidy. It is rather obvious that I'm far more aware of the requirements for inducing it and the testing methods to affirm it happened.

 

How many seeds did you treat with colchicine? If it was less than hundreds and you got more than a few germinate you probably didn't do it right. It should kill pretty much all the seed treated except for a very very small percentage. You are interfering with chromosonal division and replication, a rather difficult process to survive intact.

how do you my friend explain the three sets of leaves and branches and bud sites ????

 

Lots of potential ways for it to occurr, random mutations in the genome could easily account for it, there are certain infections that can induce it, and let's not forget that you are talking about a plant we have been cross breeding for thousands of years. How do you explain pekinese and great danes being the same species? Same basic issue. Simply because you see a triple node does NOT mean that you have induced polyploidy. This is not to say that you haven't induced it, nor does it necessarily mean that polyploid plants may produce large amounts of plants with that trait, but I haven't seen any documentary evidence of this. I'm not going to believe that all triple noded plants are polyploids because you say so, I want to see some evidence of it. i.e. a cell smear and chromosome count or strong documentary proof of large scale experimentation.

 

..sorry to break it to ya...there are many poeple growing around the place...some better than me, some worse..but i can tell you what it was..just because you have never had one , or seen one...dont mean they arnt around...

 

I have never seen anyone show me PROOF that it is a polyploid plant. Ever. Let alone that plants with these mutations are solely the result of polyploidy.

 

Colchicine is the poison you refer to...it's in gout tables and has been used since around 500AD to successfully treat gout

soak ya seeds in it for 24 hour then plant....some will not come up...from the plants that grows , you pollinate them, save the seeds, throw away the plant (not to be smoke...suppose to poison you, not know about that thou) plant the seeds and the results are strong \potant plants and it will produce tri's and quad's

 

It's rather obvious that you don't know WTF you are talking about. I have indeed read of tests which claimed that polyploid plants are more potent. You know what they used to check potency? How many fish it would kill when soaked with them. Which is NOT an indicator of potency. The link you provided shows the article writeen more than 30 years ago by Robert Connell Clarke on the subject. I suggest you actually read the thread you're posting because it looks like most of the more knowledgeable members on there have been agreeing with me, that there is no evidence to associate node structure and phyllotaxy with ploidy.

 

And as to whether I have done colchicine treatment on cannabis seeds, no, I haven't. Because it's dangerous, pointless and effectively requires such large amounts of seed and time that it makes the excercise rather moot for most gardeners. Even those with large stock of seed would be ill advised to try it in an effort to produce "super potent" plants.

 

Other species? Yep, done it to cymbidiums and cattleyas, both seed and meristems, and have done subsequent breeding for producing triploid plants. (that's 3n, but I'm not too sure you even know what that notation or even the terminology we are using here means.) I know how it's done, I've actually successfully done it with a commercially viable species which DOES show improvements with ploidy increases (with a more senior grower aquaintance) and I wouldn't begin to try with cannabis for the reasons I've outlined earlier in the thread. I'm sure Lou Lou or other knowledgeable members here will pipe up if I'm wrong on this subject, and I would happly defer to their knowledge if they know specificially of polyploid cannabis plants.

 

Yep, as I thought, I definitely sound like a wanker here, and for that I apologise, but you've done nothing that convinces or even slightly influences me into thinking that you've proven association between chromosome set numbers and phyllotaxy.

 

Good luck with the babies though, they're certainly interesting to grow.

[MongyMan]

I'm with Luke here coolbudz...

 

It's rather obvious that you don't know WTF you are talking about.

 

Plants that have other than the normal 2 branches at each node has nothing at all to do with polyploid plants, nor does stem fasciation.

 

Have I played with colchacine,?yes. Soaking seeds is one way to use it but not the best imo. Is it woth all the effort? no. Polyploid plants have just as many negatives as positives, especially when it comes to breeding from them.

 

Peace MongyMan

[coolbudz]

Just showing the pics

 

later

[The Hash Nibbler]

Interesting thread guys, bit heated but passionate people are like that =). Very intresting read but getting a bit "Techie" for me, so I will run away before my brain explodes. He-he. GH72

[coolbudz]

...it is meant to be simple

 

later