Malcolm Turnbull on pot

[Al Fish]

"Any Ideas how they got around the Gov & ATO?"

 

Yes. Many of these are contained on www.basicfraud.com

I knew some of them, but more importantly, I knew their contacts and their arguments.

[Frazz]

There is a group of pharisees who flaunt the the fact that they themselves broke the law some years ago,

yet many years later these same pharisees send law enforcers to arrest, detain, and sometimes imprison the common folk who dared to do the very same thing these Pharisees had done so many years before ...

 

Whilst some folk consider pharisees' personnel sacrifice and sympathetically abhor the fact that these pharisees are underpaid ,

its a comic coincidence that at this very time while every worker watches helplessly as their superannuation 'nest eggs'

endure unprecedented loss of value ...

 

but no so for the Pharisees,

 

why their superannuation is guaranteed by the workers over whom the pharisees rule, they shall not suffer the financial pain or

loss that the workers endure for they have benefits far and above the workers

 

 

[danoz]

Al Fish i felt shut down the Iraq example is a great one of a govt that failed. but your not listening i said no govt is perfect no organisation that big will ever be perfect.

 

BUT then you went and dropped this one...

 

Next, take the fact that taxation is theft with force by government. The fact that all but four or five nations (which coincidently found themselves on the 'Axis of Evil') have private central banks all owned by the same interconnected families. These banks issue currency. Consider “the social, environmental, economic implications”.

 

"Next, take the fact that taxation is theft with force by government" ..........

Al Fish have you ever driven on a road, ever been bulk billed at the docs, or out of work and received the doll? ever been disabled and prevented from working? Ever had a friend or relative murdered and required an expensive investigation? ever been rescued after breaking your leg out in the middle of no where growing bush weed? do you have retired parents who never earnt enough to have sufficient super and required a pention?. yeah why pay tax i agree i dont need govt services so why should i pay tax?

 

 

As for the rest you never know your conspiracy theories may be right but you cant prove them. I would hope if you ever get busted people would give you the benefit of the doubt till proven guilty. the problem with the internet is any jerk can make a site.

 

I'm at a complete loss as to how anybody could be so negative about the govenment in a country like australia.

 

Its very very easy and safe for you to sit behind your PC and blog away with your conspiracy theories that you got off some web-site. It takes guts, energy, courage, and actual knowledge, and leadership to get out there have a crack and try and make a difference by participating in the political process.

 

Al-Fish if the system is so disgusting to you why dont you do something about it its a free country. blogging on stoners .com is not going to help fix the supposed problems you perceive.

[Al Fish]

“i said no govt is perfect no organisation that big will ever be perfect.”

Good. Lets abolish them then. Something that big is bound to be dangerous. How many war dead again for the twentieth century?

 

“Al Fish have you ever driven on a road, ever been bulk billed at the docs, or out of work and received the doll? ever been disabled and prevented from working? Ever had a friend or relative murdered and required an expensive investigation? ever been rescued after breaking your leg out in the middle of no where growing bush weed? do you have retired parents who never earnt enough to have sufficient super and required a pention?. yeah why pay tax i agree i dont need govt services so why should i pay tax?”

 

These are the old favourites: Roads, police, retirement, etc. There's also defence and the “justice” system. Fortunately all of these services have been provided in the past by private means – and that includes Fire Brigades (but that's a long story). The London Police are the oldest in the world: just over two hundred years. Think of that! Only two hundred and fifty years ago – no police! As for roads these are all being privatised. Many contracts contain mandatory arbitration clauses thereby avoiding the government courts. Being on the dole has a lot to do with taxation, regulation and 'opportunity cost'. Ditto for pensioners. Ever have a friend or relative involved in a motor-vehicle accident that required an expensive investigation – which was paid for by their insurer?

Ever noticed how the sacrifices are always one way: by the people and never the State? The thief who justifies his systematic theft and violent predation by altruistically spending his victims' money, thus giving retail sales a needed boost.

 

“the problem with the internet is any jerk can make a site.”

True enough – particularly if the site hasn't been reviewed.

 

“It takes guts, energy, courage, and actual knowledge, and leadership to get out there have a crack and try and make a difference by participating in the political process.”

I would merely add that it also requires a view which extends beyond time and space; immune both to ideas of gain or loss and to conventions of honour or disgrace.

 

“Al-Fish if the system is so disgusting to you why dont you do something about it...”

I never considered that before, but now that you mention it I'll take it on board.

[danoz]

Al-fish i find it hard to believe that someone with so much distrust for the state would prefer the private sector run/own traditional state things like health and police. Its almost kinda funny.

 

Fire, police, health care, if these were private how would disadvantaged people be able to pay for these services?

 

230 years ago no police yeah it was great insted the military played the role and people were really happy the treatment soldiers gave them and the justice they received. The formation of a separate force to deal with domestic public was a really stupid idea that has stuck for 230 years.

 

What has opportunity cost got to do with paying pensions ??????? please explain

 

DEFENSE - have you seen the problems private defense contractors have caused in iraq, they worsen a bad situation.

 

Roads - i agree private sector contracts can be better than government built roads perfect example in melbourne with eastlink built on time, and to budget and its awesome. BUT what about country towns? where the road is needed for safety but not enough traffic passes on the road to pay for a toll like eastlink.

 

"Ever noticed how the sacrifices are always one way: by the people and never the State? The thief who justifies his systematic theft and violent predation by altruistically spending his victims' money, thus giving retail sales a needed boost."

 

I dont even understand what your trying to say here ?

 

And as for whole madatory arbitration quote even though i touched on contract law at uni i had no idea how this was relavent so i googled the definition and read a little on it. Still I'm confused about how this supports your point.

 

Al Fish if your so in bittered about governments why dont you talk about the bail out for the rich in the US. The little comedy scene at the end of the 7:30 report was absolutely brilliant regarding this issue summed up my feelings about commercialism in the west in general and the bailout issue

 

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/ then click on "clarke and dawe discuss the meltdown.

Edited October 3, 2008 by danoz

[Nooby]

Yes, a nasty cabal of criminals indeed.

 

"Two weeks ago, for example, Paulson announced the Government would make an unprecedented $85 billion nationalization rescue of an insurance group, AIG. True AIG is the world’s largest insurer and has a huge global involvement in financial markets.

 

AIG’s former Chairman, Hank Greenberg—a close friend of Henry Kissinger, a former Director of the New York Fed, former Vice Chairman of the elite New York Council on Foreign Relations and of David Rockefeller’s select Trilateral Commission, Trustee Emeritus of Rockefeller University—was for more than forty years Chairman of AIG. His AIG career ended in March 2005 when AIG's board forced Greenberg to resign from his post as Chairman and CEO under the shadow of criticism and legal action for cooking the books, in a prosecution brought by Eliot Spitzer, then Attorney General of New York State.

 

In mid September, in between other dramatic failures including Lehman Bros., and the bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Paulson announced that the US Treasury, as agent for the United States Government, was to bailout the troubled AIG with a staggering $85 billion. The announcement came a day after Paulson announced the Government would let the 150-year old investment bank, Lehman Brothers, fail without Government aid. Why AIG and not Lehman?

 

What has since emerged are details of a meeting at the New York Federal Reserve bank chaired by Paulson, to discuss the risk of letting AIG fail. There was only one active Wall Street banker present at the meeting—Lloyd Blankfein, chairman of Paulson’s old firm, Goldman Sachs.

 

Blankfein later claimed he was present at the fateful meeting not to protect his firm’s interests but to ‘safeguard the entire financial system.’ His claim was put in doubt when it later emerged that Blankfein’s Goldman Sachs was AIG’s largest trading partner and stood to lose $20 billion in a bankruptcy of AIG. Were Goldman Sachs to go down with AIG, Secretary Paulson would have reportedly lost $700 million in Goldman Sachs stock options he had, an interesting fact.

 

That is a tiny glimpse into the man who crafted the largest bailout in US or world financial history some days ago, the failed TARP—Troubled Asset Relief Program—a proposed $700 billion financial stabilization scheme which, in Paulson’s original version would have allowed him or his Treasury successor to use $700 billion, with no oversight or accountability, to buy bad or worthless assets from financial institutions he deems worthy of help. "

 

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10392

[Al Fish]

“i find it hard to believe that someone... would prefer the private sector run/own traditional state things like health and police. Its almost kinda funny.”

Private security companies now perform many of the functions that were the lot of police. These are essentially private police forces. As for health care, many Australians now leave Australia for private healthcare in private hospitals. It's a growing trade.

 

“Fire, police, health care, if these were private how would disadvantaged people be able to pay for these services?”

As was the case in the past. It's a big topic, but take private fire brigades. Why would the GIO fire brigade put out fires even if it knew that the building was insured with another firm of fire brigades; say NRMA? There are a few great answers and history confirms that private fire brigades put out all the fires that they could. Indeed, there was competion.

 

“230 years ago no police yeah it was great insted the military played the role...”

I refer you to lots of western movies. Almost the same in England, Scotland and Ireland but without the Stetsons.

 

“What has opportunity cost got to do with paying pensions ??????? please explain”

When the government screws an economy enough the producers close down or leave. Its the opportunity cost of say staying in Australia or moving to China – and lots of businesses are. Lower GNP equals lower standard of living. The Swiss political system is worth a look – older than Westminster.

 

“DEFENSE - have you seen the problems private defense contractors have caused in iraq, they worsen a bad situation.”

Sure, but they're put there by the State (in this case the USA) to control a situation engendered by a war. Only Nation states engage in wars. See a commonality there?

 

“BUT what about country towns? where the road is needed for safety but not enough traffic passes on the road to pay for a toll”

The road wouldn't cost much to maintain then. Lotteries (worked for the Opera House so a road should be too difficult), fairs, contributions of local business reliant on the road, etc. This is how the roads were maintained in the UK after the Romans left.)

 

"Ever noticed how the sacrifices are always one way."

“I dont even understand what your trying to say here ?”

 

Sure, 'Think not what your country can do for you...' (Because if you do you'll realize that it's what your country does to you – tax, conscription, war, laws, regulations, sub-regulations, queues, identity cards, compulsory immunization with mercury compounds, fucking street cameras, fucking traffic cameras, fucking security cameras, a public transport system up to shit, but with cameras.) “...but what you can do for your country.' (Just like a busy bee in its hive. Orwell: Animal Farm.)

 

“And as for whole madatory arbitration...”

Companies enter contracts which specify that in the case of a dispute they will go through pre-determined procedures which effectively preclude state court proceedings. Private arbitration bodies.

 

“Al Fish if your so in bittered about governments why dont you talk about the bail out for the rich in the US.”

I did.

My politics is simple and doctrinaire: I welcome the process of voluntary exchange and cooperation between freely acting individuals whilst abhorring the use of violence to cripple such voluntary cooperation and cause people to act in ways different from what their own minds dictate.

And please, let us not mention that stinking fiction: the Social Contract.

 

Finally, if you want to go right to the very lowest depth of the nature of nation states consider this:

On January 20th 1945 President Roosevelt received a 40-page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from high-level Japanese officials. This memo showed that the Japanese were offering surrender terms virtually identical to the ones ultimately accepted by the Americans at the formal surrender ceremony in September of that year.

[danoz]

dude all your solutions may have worked in the past when we had a population of jimmy down the road and john the steel smith up the road. Today we have larger cities and more people.

 

HOW would you control all these private companies????? how would you stop people from getting ripped off, who would ensure the rd was built properly???

how many fire brigades do you want????? sounds complicated

 

and still no answer and what the poor people are ment to do in this situation. yes private health is growing because there is tax insentives for it for people of good incomes.. so again what about lower income people..

 

why not balance your reading of conspiracy theories with other..

 

you could perhaps explain our differences of opinion from our personal experiances.

 

me personally i grew up lost a parent at 7 practically lost another at 16 was old enough for state to pay me an independent rate of youth allowance lived independly and was able finished high school. then went to uni, again with youth allowance. furthermore in my final year had some health problems state paid to have them fixed. state lent me some money for uni fees (HECS) at the end sifted through 11 job offers walked into 70k a year. eventually ill pay this back in tax but im happy to do so

 

so what private company would do all this for me ????????

 

and what personal experiance has made you the opposite to me ????

 

or r u just bitter for no good reason

 

all that aside this is guna be my last post on the matter cause this is way off the topic and an argument that will never go anywhere