Is Cannabis Paranoia real?

[WantDaChronic]

thc is the culprit everyone should blame for people freaking out when they smoke up, but on the same token if the pot has high levels of the other cannabiniods in particular cbd, those effects can be greatly reduced. thats pretty much what every study about mental illness and cannabis that i have read has said if you exclude the government funded properganda reports which say cannabis causes mental illness

 

the fact of the matter is that while most people will experience the same type of high, eg. if a few people are smoking a really heavy indica and one person gets couch locked with the munchies, chances are atleast one other person will as well. but in reality we all experience different effects from the same drugs and some people are more prone to freaking out than others. i can personally smoke up all day with no ill effects, but if my schizophrenic mother in law walks in and cops even a wiff of smoke it sends her crazy. it gets worse with the more smoke she gets as well and before i knew the effects it had on her she asked for a couple of small cones so i said no problems. deadset i have NEVER in my life seen a reaction like hers, she was talking to dead people and then talking on those dead people's behalf all the while having half a dozen other people talking shit in her head with such things being said like there are knives in the kitchen, grab the biggest one and slit their throats

 

i think its all a matter of the person's mental state and the environment the drug is consumed in as to wether pot can cause paranoia, anxiety, etc. if you're fucked in the head like my mother in law you should definately stay away from pot and if you are in a situation where you could get busted the worries you have about that will amplify once you get high if you are a sane person who is smoking up in an environment they know to be safe there shouldnt be any issues at all...

[RobbieGanjaSeed]

WDC, I think ya basically right, but it's not always that cut and dry. I mean my old man smoked for 30 odd years on a daily basis, and then it all went wrong for him. He smoked rollies, and as a norm would roll a small amount of pot in his smoke each and every smoke. This way people came used to the feint smellof grass on him, and wrote it off as his brand of baccy, and he was in a permanent state of medium level high, around the clock for as long as I can remember. He would smoke a joint with me periodically, but never used bongs and so forth. It seemed odd it hit him so late in the game.

Given that though, I agree, it was a conditionhe would have suffered to some extent if smoking all those years or not. But it wouldn't have been so aggrevated either if he hadn't smoked.

 

The other side of the coin only just came to me when you mentioned your mother in law's strange behaviour. It reminded me of the first time I turned on a mate. He was over 50, and had lived a life of extreme "up tight". He himself never really fit the up tight scene he was in all those years..he was a JW. He dank hard, rebelled against everything he could, but did live a very regimented, and tough on himself kinda way.

 

Then he left that bunch, and out of the blue, his daughter, a freind of mine-died. She was 20 years old, perfect health. Just lay down to sleep one night, and her heart stopped at midnight or so. She was dead when he tried to wake her for work the next morning.

He flipped, and when we buried her, the scene was madness, withe fight over who should bury the girl..(her mother was still a JW, and her father and mother were divorced by this).

Eventually most left the cemetry and he was distraught. I thought it might be good to smoke some puff, it might help him I wondered, and so I rolled a pretty big joint of really top gear.

 

He went mad. He lay on his back speaking to a tree, he later told me he saw all the people he ever knew in the tree, and was talking to them about the injustice of his daughter's death. he went back and forth from laughing uncontrollably, to hysterics. I mean full on hysterics. So much so, the cemetry staff came to see if he needed medical attention called.

 

The upshot? he loved it, said he didn't think he could have handled the day without it. Which was totally wierd, as from the moment he flipped until he came down I was in the biggest guilt I had ever felt.

He was listening to these invisible people, turning to speak with some that weren't there. It was bizzare.

 

Since then he and smoke more regularly than I smoke with anyone else. He's never shown that wierd trip since.

 

I just don't think it's cut and dry is all. Although Like I sia,d I think ya basically right. I think it's liike everything else in life. we can accept there's no hard fast rule on every other thing, i think smoking pot has to be accepted in that way too.

 

cheers

rob

[roid]

This is a really good thread and all. And i'm hesitant to answer the OP coz by now it seems offtopic, but i'll answer:

 

When reading about the biochemical effects of smoking a cone in a paper by the D.E.A.

It said that within the first 30 minutes and for about 30 minutes you will have an increased heart rate and an increased respiration rate which would then settle back to normal.

 

I have been told by medical health care professionals that cannabis is a Mood enhancing chemical (not narcotic)

 

I then wondered about whether some people might confuse the increased pulse and respiration with the flght or flight reaction, and become paranoid trying to figure why their bodies felt that way when there was no threat, with the mood enhancing effects of cannabis added, become paranoid about being paranoid getting caught in a vicious circle leading to serious mental illness in a small few.

 

What do you think, bullshit or not?

 

After reading some of the replies I relise that this post is not clear enough please read my second post in this thread.

 

yep

 

I research about panic disorders a lot, and this is indeed a quite common problem with panic disorders. People can become so afraid of having a panic attack (ironicly) that they will interpret any benign symptom like increased breathing rate or heart rate or sweating for the onset of a panic attack - and ironicly it's this panic about having a panic attack that will then actually CAUSE a REAL panic attack.

 

Benzos (ie: valium) are often rather effective at treating this, as they force your heart rate lower. You can then go expose yourself to whatever situation was causing your panic attacks - to show that it wasn't actually the situation at all, but your own fear of freaking out.

It's interesting someone mentioned that alcohol was good too. Makes sense coz Alcohol and Benzos are both CNS depressants - they both slow your nerves down.

 

 

HOWEVER. What your son is experiencing does not seem to be Panicing over the thought of having a Panic Attack. Your son seems to have a much more serious issue. Get him to see someone, i recon even if he's gonna stop smoking he should still see someone. Coz i kinda believe that if cannabis is exasserbating an underlying condition. It may be a blessing that it brought it to the surface so it can be treated.

 

 

Also, i just gotta say this thread is awesome. It's great hearing about people's REAL first hand experience with cannabis exacerbated mental problems. Because otherwise all we hear is Today Tonight's biased garbage that you can't believe anyway.

So thx guys for giving me something SOLID, you guys are worth listening to on the subject - keep talking

[DrDee]

Hi Group,

Amark and Robbie, best wishes to you in dealing with your repsective family menbers who are suffering. One thing that becomes an issue, both in ordinary life and in a clinical setting is being able differentiate a real mental illness from other things that can cause abnormal behavior including: stress, recreational drugs of almost any kind, fatigue and sleeplessness and even physical illness. (for exampe: diabetics with low blood sugars can appear to be intoxicated)

Mild or even profound paranoia when stoned can be an unfortunate side effect but the one thing that's a hallmark of a true mental illness is it's peristance. When the paranoia lasts for weeks like with Amark's son and Robbies Dad...then the issue is more serious.

 

I was once partying with some new friends and one guy who I knew and liked, became aphasic. He could say words, but they weren't the correct words. It came out all jumbled up. That's called "word salad" among mental health professionals and is a fairly descriptive name for it. I was distressed for him and even discussed getting help for him. I was totally laughed down by his friends who said that that often happens to him when he's really ripped. He was doing meth, alcohol and weed. So I followed their lead and eventually he slept it off. I'm not saying that he didn't have some problems, but my point is that I was convinced that he had had a psychotic break when it was merely severe abuse of his body and mind.

 

People who have lifelong habits persist even though they know it's bad for them. They hope that this time it will be different. I was going through a difficult period in my life related to job and marriage stress. I has a nice stash of stropharia cubensis mushrooms in my fridge and took them weekly. I thought I'd have a nice little escape, but instead I had a full blown "bad trip". It involved paranoia, fear, uncertainty of my own actions, and ganerally a bummer. And I had to ride that out for 6 hours till I finally collapsed into sleep. You would think that I'd try to avoid that experience, but no...the next weekend I ate the mushrooms and the same thing happened, only worse. I had to repeat that half-a-dozen times before I finally realized that I better stop. I just couldn't believe that the muchroom had turned against me.

 

An excellent book on that subject from a first hand perspective is called the Eden Express by Mark Vonnegut (son of author Kurt Vonnegut). It's about a young hippie wannabee who triggers the onset of a full blown schizophrenic episode through drug use. It's a fairly hair-raising tale.

 

It's my deepest hope that all human suffering can be alleviated, but that can only happen one person at a time.

 

Peace,

Dee

Edited January 26, 2008 by DrDee

[amarkrieder]

Hi DrDee and all,

I thank you all for honesty and sharing your experiances so frankly, you have given me a great deal to think about,

My son continues to take what they tell him, but his behavior is not always ok even though he is sticking to dose and time.

I think I will take him, his 2 little ones out to a beach and park with his little sister, 5 seat car only, and see if a change of secnary will help him relax and learn to play like the kids. I think he has lost this way of having fun, chasing kids might burn off any extra stress chemicals by putting them to a use while providing a distraction to his internal thought processes,

If this works I will try to habituate the fun behaviour as often as I can, but he is 23 and I still have his little sister to care for at home alone.

 

Question DrDee

I have a diagnosis of "Bipolar Affective Disorder complicated with long term substance induced mood disorder"

When my family and friends tell me I am becomeing too intense in everything I do, I start taking my meds again.

I kind of agree with the docs somethings not right, as most "normal people" don't wake up clear headed, thinking straight and in hospital after about a week when their meds, such as the current medication 700mg 2x / day Sodium Valproate level out their manic phase 9 times in 16 years.

What I had noticed is after about 2 days of taking my meds I notice that there is a sudden reduction in white noise? or a lowering of background sound? not foreground, rumbling feeling? sort of all at once, and always about the same time after restarting meds, someone else mentions it in another thread on the forum somewhere (short term memory loss )

I also noticed the exact same noise reduction effect after going straight for about a week with no meds either, and then having about 4 pipes of MJ only it happens about ~3/4 of an hour after first pipe and lasts long after the high wears off.

What is the noise thing about?

[DrDee]

Amarkrieder,

 

One thing that's fairly common in people whith known mental illness is a tendency to live inside their heads too much. Social interaction is harder and less satisfying for them. Motivation to become involved in hobbies or other activities isn't there. Sometimes the side-effects of the medications become troubling and they focus on that. I once heard that the goal of therapy in people with hysterical misery was to convert that to normal everyday unhappiness. Not that that applies to your situation but it points out that the goals of our mental health system is to help people become functional. Happiness or joy...well that's their individual responsibility.

 

Your ideas are right on the money. Help him to become more active and to appreciate the beautiful things in life. Sunsets, children playing, enjoyment of music and art. Don't expect miracles. It's going to take some time. And don't beat yourself up if it seems like it's not working. Just being there for him and trying to help him is a benefit and I'm sure he appreciates it, even though he may not verbalize it. It's very obvious that you're a loving father.

 

Throughout much of human history, happiness hasn't been something that people strive for. Food, shelter, safety...survival being the major goal. But as our physical needs became easier to provide, we turned toward other thing. This is going to get technical and I'll try and keep it as straightforward as possible. Abraham Maslow was a renoun psychologist of the last century whose work is very well respected. He proposed a model that shows our needs arranged and prioritized like a pyramid. The most basic of those being our biological needs. Safety and security next. Love and belonging afer that. Esteem needs near the top and finally what he called self-actualization.

 

To boil this down to it's essence and relate it to your son. Non-judgemental humor is way up on our pyramid of needs. For example, if he's stuck at a lower level, he may not be able to achieve that till some more basic issues are met. By spending time with him, you're certainly strengthening his feelings of Belongingness and Love. Esteem needs like humor and feeling good about himself will come later. So keep doing what you're doing.

 

And just in case anyone has a burning desire to read about Maslow in greater detail... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

 

And I haven't forgotten your question about white noise. This is a much easier issue. Most everyone has a certain degree of "background noise" which originates within the nerves of the ears. When hearing has become damaged as the result of exposure to percussive loud noises; hammering, gunshots, etc... then it's called tinnitus. I have tinnitus from when I played in a rock band as a teenager. Many things effect tinnitus. Aspirin and ibuprofen make it worse as does dehydration and stress.

 

Sodium Valporoate happens to be a drug that actually helps with tinnitis. It is prescribed to help people with tinnitus. So the reduction of "white noise" you're noticing is merely a normal effect of the drug. Ignore it and focus on the outside world.

 

And a few final words in closing. Remember that to be a good caretaker, you have to first take care of yourself...always. So don't lose yourself in your sons problems and forget about yourself.

 

Take good care...everyone,

Dee