Tossing up .....2 x 250w HID

[micmac]

We're all chasing more aren't we?

I've had big yields n small ones as well but the quality has never been questioned

So to say I'll sacrifice quantity for quality just doesn't do it for me

Fuck that

 

 

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[..............................]

your putting in alotta time and effort and  into every grow, not to mention dollors

 

and you wanna do the best you can and push things to the limit (within reason)

 

to get the absolute best you can  from your space.

 

which comes from trial n error, until your happy with the end results.

[AquaDolly]

After reading all that it sounds like hps for budding and more natural light for veg. Correct?

 

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Edited August 13, 2018 by AquaDolly

[budboy73m]

So u r telling a 315 w has more output than a 600w light?

I'm not the best 1 to explain it

Hps smashes many photons at the plants than the other lights at this stage

It's this extra photons available that give your buds size n density

So if u really r interested read up on that ,

Led cmh, hlg, aren't capable of this kind of photon output

 

 

 

 

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My experience switching from 600 hps to 315 cmh was poor..... That being said im not too sure of the quality of the cmh globe

[bakedcake]

We're all chasing more aren't we?

I've had big yields n small ones as well but the quality has never been questioned

So to say I'll sacrifice quantity for quality just doesn't do it for me

Fuck that

 

 

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But what if you could have a better quality and you just didn’t know?

[OldManDallas]

After reading all that it sounds like hps for budding and more natural light for veg. Correct?

 

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HPS is a good all rounder for veg and flower.

 

Some use MH for veg then switch to HPS for flower.

 

Go the Son T

[micmac]

But what if you could have a better quality and you just didn’t know?

no offence mate but some of the gear I got if it was better I would be a zombie all the time

I try to choose only high THC strains

 

 

 

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[bakedcake]

no offence mate but some of the gear I got if it was better I would be a zombie all the time

I try to choose only high THC strains

 

 

 

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Haha fair enough Micmac, could imagine they would be full couch lock [emoji23]

[micmac]

Yep I agree , some led are better for veg n in an ideal world that's what I would do

But my rooms are setup to handle HPS , so I'm not really that interested in running 2 totally different ways to achieve the same environment

At the moment led or hlg r Really only a summer option for me personally

 

 

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[billygoat]

No worries billy, u make a joke that's fine [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Do a bit more reading n u might actually understand what's going on when u turn your lights on

A photon is absorbed by one of the pigment molecules and transfers that energy by successive flourescence events to neighboring molecules until it reaches the action center where the energy is used to transfer an energetic electron to an electron acceptor.

A trick of quantum physics called coherence, the researchers suggest, helps the energy of the elementary particles of light, called photons, find the most efficient path to a plant's (or purple bacterium's) so-called reaction center, where the light's energy fuels the reaction that produces carbohydrates.

The only direct function of a photon in the photosynthesis process is to deliver kinetic energy to atoms/ molecules on the surface of the plant. That delivedred KE causes vibrations in the atom/ molecule that then causes other phonon, electronic and chemical reactions in the plant.

Absorption of Photons and Transfer of Energy

 

When a plant is exposed to light, photons of appropriate wavelength will strike and be absorbed by the pigment-protein complexes arrayed on the thylakoid membranes. When this happens, the energy of the photon is transferred to the pigment molecule, thus causing the pigment to go into an electronically excited state. In other words, the energy originally associated with the photon is now contained within the pigment molecule. Once a pigment molecule has gone into an excited state, it is possible for the excitation energy to be transferred to an adjacent pigment molecule.

 

Dispersed among the pigment-protein complexes on the thylakoid membranes are special structures called reaction centers. They are fewer in number than the light-harvesting complexes, and consist of proteins, chlorophyll, and several other pigments in a highly structured arrangement. This will be described later in a detailed module. There are two types of reaction centers, called Photosystem I (PSI or P700) and Photosystem II (PSII or P680).

 

The array of pigment-protein complexes on the thylakoid membranes functions as an antenna for gathering light energy. Excitation energy is transferred from one chlorophyll to another until the energy reaches a reaction center (Figure 4). This causes one of the chlorophyll molecules within the reaction center to go into an excited state.

 

 

Figure 4. An Antenna Complex. The array of pigment-protein molecules (e.g., chlorophyll) that absorbs light is referred to as an antenna complex. In this simplified figure, energy is absorbed from a photon of light, and transferred stepwise to the reaction center, P700. In the reaction center, the energy is imparted to an electron, which is passed on to a chain of carriers.

 

 

 

 

 

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nice copy and paste.

 

I am happy to be educated Micmac, but you are filling me with misinformation.

 

You stated CMH is not as good as HPS as it is lacking in the red spectrum.  Incorrect.

 

You stated CMH is not as good as HPS as it emits less UV radiation.  Incorrect.

 

Now you are saying the reason HPS is superior is because of the amount of photons it bombards the plant with ?

 

 

I thought it best to do my own research again, as your copied information with P700 reaction centres makes little sense to me. 

 

I found this snippet on the sunmastergrowlamps website.  It discusses Photons in a way that even I can understand:

 

 

From Sunmastergrowlamps.com  

 

Photons

Another means of measuring light quantity for plant growth involves the understanding that light is always emitted or absorbed in discrete packets called “photons.” These packets or photons are the minimum units of energy transactions involving light. For example, if a certain photosynthetic reaction occurs through absorption of one photon of light, then it is sensible to determine how many photons are falling on the plant each second. Also, since only photons in the PAR region of the spectrum are active in creating photosynthesis, it makes sense to limit the count to PAR photons. A lamp could be rated on how many actual tiny photons it is emitting each second. At present no lamp manufacturer does this rating.

Instead, plant biologists and researchers prefer to talk of the flux of photons falling each second on a surface. This is the basis of PPF PAR with PPF standing for Photosynthetic Photon Flux, a process which actually counts the number of photons falling per second on one square meter of surface. Since photons are very small, the count represents a great number of photons per second, but the number does provide a meaningful comparison.

Another measure appropriate for plant growth, called YPF PAR or Yield Photon Flux, takes into account not only the photons but also how effectively they are used by the plant. Since red light (or red photons) are used more effectively to induce a photosynthesis reaction, YPF PAR gives more weight to red photons based on the plant sensitivity curve.

Since photons are very small packets of energy, rather than referring to 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 photons, scientists conventionally use the figure “1.7 micromoles of photons” designated by the symbol “µmol.” A µmol stands for 6 x 1017 photons; 1 mole stands for 6 x 1023 photons. Irradiance (or illumination) is therefore measured in watts per square meter or in micromoles (of photons) per square meter per second, abbreviated as µmol.m-2.s-1

The unit “einstein” is sometimes used to refer to one mole per square meter per second. It means that each second a 1 square meter of surface has 6 x 1023 photons falling on it. Irradiance levels for plant growth can therefore be measured in micro-einsteins or in PAR watts/sq. meter.

These three measures of photosynthetically active radiation, PAR watts per square meter, PPF PAR and YPF PAR are all legitimate, although different, ways of measuring the light output of lamps for plant growth. They do not involve the human eye response curve which is irrelevant for plants. Since plant response does “spill out” beyond the 400 nanometer and 700 nanometer boundaries, some researchers refer to the 350 – 750 nanometer region as the PAR region. Using this expanded region will lead to mildly inflated PAR ratings compared to the more conservative approach in this discussion. However, the difference is small.

 

 

So, armed with the knowledge that the measure of photons (or as I understand it - efficiency) emitted by a particular light is measured in µmol, I set out to find some values for both lights.

 

Starting with the CMH, I found this website which states the following values for the 630W CMH bulb.  https://growershouse.com/growers-choice-630w-de-double-ended-cmh-ceramic-mh-lamp-3100k

 

630W CMH:

 

• Initial Par: 1135 umol/s
• Photon Flux: 1150 umol/s

 

I then found this website for the Gavita 600W HPS.  https://www.hydroexperts.com.au/Gavita-Pro-Classic-600-SE-1190-umol/sec-2.7A-240V-Philips-EL-400V-600W

 

 

600W HPS:

 

• PPF:1190 μMol/sec

 

Both seem rather similar.  The HPS is slightly better, but hardly superior ?