Network Against Prohibition

[Guest Wilderbud]

We may not like being lumped in with intravenous drug users, but as they're both illicit, we are - every single day in the media.  As users of illicit drugs, we are all part of the same group.

 

I do not think marijuana is illicit - its an illicit drug in law only. Opiates/amphetamines/hallucinogens are illicit. Its better to use the term illegal - illicit is a loaded word IMHO.

 

As users of cannabis, we're the major subset of the illicit drug using population...

 

Can you recognize that they are abusing marijuana users to promote the Syringe Festival?

 

NB. marijuana [natural] is a 'soft drug' and syringes are used to inject [synthetic] 'hard drugs' - why lump them together at any time. As WC said, it wouldnt be as bad if it showed a poppy plant.

Edited November 19, 2003 by Wilderbud

[white_cluster]

Sure, but this doesn't make NAP a bunch of junkies or dickheads. I still don't understand why you refer to syringes as weapons, hypodermic needles have saved many more lives than they've destroyed.

 

I agree, I'm sorry I called them scum and dickheads I was just angry. Syringes obviously save alot of lives and are a marvellous invention, without them life would not be as good or maybe not be at all. But I believe they should be kept in the hospital or in the homes of people who require them for there illness'.

 

to state the obvious, most heroin users spend all there money on heroin and all they care about is heroin, tons of homeless heroin users have nowhere to shoot up but in public (or sterile uncomfortable injecting rooms in some places), there is no way you can stop that.

 

I sat thinking about this for ages and dont know the answer to whether heroin should be legal or not, I'd need to think for alot longer.

But I think the drain on the taxpayers dollar towards making the cheap regulated heroin wouldn't compare to the money spent these days on insurance and policing and keeping prisoners in jail for commiting crime to supply there habit. but I think it makes it all alot more of an attractive option for kids, they can look forward to free government supplied safer heroin.... that would've sounded pretty attractive to me as a 12 year old.

and no these kids cant get heroin yet, but I'm sure junkies wont mind getting extra heroin with there prescription and cutting it and selling it to the only people who cant get it from the chemist which is minors.

 

I know users take drugs intravenously for certain reasons, But i think it should be strongly promoted that they take up other methods, methods that dont hurt innocent people if they are to be legalised, or even if they remain illegal.

The government should arrange a program where heroin users go to a clinic where pure heroin is supplied to them for free for a month or so and they can camp out everynight in a relaxed atmosphere thats not sterile and clinic like, but no syringes are available, and after that heroin is available for cheap and pure by scripts $3 just like the rest of us. I'm sure most users would jump at the chance, after a few years syringe programs could stop and heavy fines be introduced for anyone found injecting or anyone in possesion of syringes without a medical reason, any needle found discarded in public should be traced back to user by fingerprints and then jail terms for the people. Thats what I reckon is a good solution to diesease problems.

I seriously dont care about junkies dying from diesease themselves, that is a risk they take from doing something stupid where you can obviously catch a diesease. I dont feel sorry for someone who flies to south africa to have anal sex with prostitutes and gets a diesease.

If you do something you know can make you die your a fucking idiot and will probably die.

 

I'm not saying needle programs dont slow down the spread of diesease, but they certainly dont stop it. Aids is fucked man, and more extreme measures need to be made to prevent it, instead of spending billions for the last few decades, they should have been spending that money on prevention.

 

Anyhoo that has nothing to do with the NAP.

 

Hash and oil are relatively potent and therefore significantly safer than herbal cannabis.

 

I'd rather a bit of vegetative matter than a tiny scerrick of butane residue myself, I'd rather a cone of easy burning buds, than a harsh cone of smouldering hash that makes me cough. but thats just me, Hash usually makes my throat burn because the smoke is hotter.

 

the pic that NAP should have had is a mj leaf and a mirror with a line of powder on it and pills, a lot more subtle and to the point.

 

definately, syringes are offensive, the logo reminds me alot of the drug squad logo, and as I've said before a syringe is not a drug and it is not illegal.

 

And the drugs that aren't harmful? We've been in contact with these harmful drugs for millenia, but we didn't have anywhere near the problem we suddenly had when they were all made illegal. The best of intentions can have the opposite effect.

 

man opiates have been fucking different cultures for ages, causing wars and enslaving people into cheap labour, I must have been reading different history books than you. At times it was legal in western culture addiction to opiates wasn't considered a problem as they were a cure all anyhoo. Just like prozac addiction is hardly considered a problem today even though the statistics of addicts is huge.

Syringes are the reason these drugs cause so much harm now, I dont know for sure, but I very much doubt people have been injecting drugs with syringes for millenia, and these dieseases haven't been around for millenia, or so prominent.

 

anyhoo, australian activist, I prepared my first opium garden last month, I really like smoking opium when its mixed with a bit of hash, good stuff, and the fact I could go to jail for it is fucked. the opium hash balls I get make me so relaxed and just sink into the couch more than anything and really remind me of what super potent pot would be like.

 

So obviously my only problem is with syringes. Syringes ARE a weapon, if you watch or read the news you would see how common hold ups with syringes are becoming, to me that is one of the lowest acts imaginable, alot more scary than a gun, to threaten someone with a life of pain instead of a quick death.

 

guns dont kill people, people kill people.

whats your NRA member number sols?? mines 324984957913.

 

Nuclear Bombs don't kill people, people kill people.

Electric Chairs dont kill people, people kill people.

safely contained Zyklon-B doesn't kill people, people kill people.

[Guest niall]

I do not think marijuana is illicit - its an illicit drug in law only.

Errrr... illicit = illegal ::

[Guest niall]

to state the obvious, most heroin users spend all there money on heroin and all they care about is heroin, tons of homeless heroin users have nowhere to shoot up but in public (or sterile uncomfortable injecting rooms in some places), there is no way you can stop that.

Quite simply they need a cheap, reliable, pure supply. If they don't need to spend all of their money on heroin, they can be as productive as you and me, and they can use their drug in private.

 

I sat thinking about this for ages and dont know the answer to whether heroin should be legal or not, I'd need to think for alot longer.

 

Read "The Pursuit of Oblivion" by Richard Davenport-Hines. Should still be available in most bookstores, came out a year or two ago.

 

And the drugs that aren't harmful? We've been in contact with these harmful drugs for millenia, but we didn't have anywhere near the problem we suddenly had when they were all made illegal. The best of intentions can have the opposite effect.

 

man opiates have been fucking different cultures for ages, causing wars and enslaving people into cheap labour, I must have been reading different history books than you.

 

But they were still nowhere near the problem we have today. Opium dens were available for users, they weren't persecuted and could go about their lives like normal people. This century we started arresting and stygmatising them, forced everyone into the black market - and lo and behold, we now have a huge black market, no control over distribution or user's health anymore, and we've suddenly got far more heroin users than we ever had before. We need to control it ourselves, not leave it to the black market. That's always worse. I'm not saying regulation will solve all of the problems, get everyone off heroin, but it is a significant improvement on what we have now. Most of the harm is caused by prohibition itself, if we remove all of that we can focus on helping them at a medical level, giving them support and eventually a reason to quit on their own (a life).

[Tom]

I think everyone agrees that the current situation is a dismal failure, the real problem that faces us is the solution and that will remain the cause of many arguments until we finally get some real facts from unbiased research which of course cannot be carried out under the present prohibition conditions.

[Guest Wilderbud]

Errrr...  illicit = illegal  ::

Illicit

Not permitted or allowed; prohibited; unlawful.

 

It can be easilly misconstrued whereas illegal cannot be misinterpreted to mean something else [ie. prohibited by God].

[Sir Skunk-A-Lot]

Heroin users can function perfectly well in society, and experience far less harm than the typical binge-drinking teenager,

 

 

 

Are you serious??? How is someone on heroin able to function perfectly well in society??? What sort of heroin are you talking about or been using??

 

Would you let a doctor addicted or under the influence of heroin preform brain surgery on you or a member of your family? Or let a heroin addict drive a bus full of people to work everyday??? You cannot be serious. Saying a person on heroin can function just as well as a person not impaired by any drug is just plain crazy and makes you look like a complete fool.

 

Intravenous drug users only have themselves to blame and I have no sympathy for them at all. They know the outcome of their actions and have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

Although, I do agree that all drugs laws should be reformed, including heroin laws.

Edited November 20, 2003 by Sir Skunk-A-Lot

[Guest niall]

Heroin users can function perfectly well in society, and experience far less harm than the typical binge-drinking teenager,

 

Are you serious??? How is someone on heroin able to function perfectly well in society??? What sort of heroin are you talking about or been using??

I didn't say on/impaired by heroin, I said a heroin user - i.e. not right after they've had their hit. What type of heroin? The type I've been talking about all along - cheap and pure, medical grade opiates. When you go and buy heroin on the street, you aren't buying heroin - and this is part of the problem.

 

Would you let a doctor addicted or under the influence of heroin preform brain surgery on you or a member of your family? Or let a heroin addict drive a bus full of people to work everyday??? You cannot be serious. Saying a person on heroin can function just as well as a person not impaired by any drug is just plain crazy and makes you look like a complete fool.

 

Neither did I say they could function as well as non-drug users at particular tasks or jobs, I said they can function perfectly well in society. They are able to hold down jobs, pay their bills, and aside from their addiction they can live like normal people - providing they have a cheap, reliable and pure source of their drug. Ask any medical professional.

 

Look at supervised injecting centres in Europe, people go get their hit and then go off to work a few hours later, they're not using to get high they're using to feel normal again. They've got an aging population of heroin users, they're not all fucked up homeless people or teenagers prostituting themselves and shooting up in alleys.

[Sir Skunk-A-Lot]

Ok, True. You may not have said that you were comparing a heroin user to a non-drug user with your statement. A herion user may well be able to stumble to the bank and pay a bill or two, but heroin is still a very powerful non- recreational drug and the users are still affected by it no matter what the quality of the heroin. When there not affected by herion they spend their time trying to get their next hit.

 

User need better quality Herion:

You can't put out a fire fuelled by unleaded petrol by pouring hi-octane avgas on it. The only way for intravenous drugs users to function perfectly well is society is to stop jabbing themselves with needles.

 

I doubt you will find much support among the Cannabis community for your cause and associating Cannabis with Heroin and other hard drugs just makes the work of people fighting for Cannabis reform even harder. Hence the responses you have received from so many on this forum.

 

Good Luck!

[walter_cego]

Would you let a doctor addicted or under the influence of heroin preform brain surgery on you or a member of your family? Or let a heroin addict drive a bus full of people to work everyday???

I'm pretty sure it would be better to be worked on by a doctor on heroin than a doctor who had smoked cannabis, I thought heroin could make people do things better than they did them when straight, things such as maths and stuff. None the less doctors aren't allowed to perform under legal drugs like alcohol and thats the way it should be. Bus drivers cant use alcohol either.

 

Neither did I say they could function as well as non-drug users at particular tasks or jobs, I said they can function perfectly well in society. They are able to hold down jobs, pay their bills, and aside from their addiction they can live like normal people - providing they have a cheap, reliable and pure source of their drug. Ask any medical professional.

 

 

Medical Proffesional smeshional, I wonder how much heroin those doctors are taking??? who's to say junkies will keep normal jobs?? why don't they do that now?? they could afford heroin easier with a job obviously..... but that has nothing to do with anything, heroin makes people lazy, and such a strong addiction to something gives the user no cares about anything else but heroin. I cant see junky women getting real jobs instead of being whores, thats the easiest way for women to make money and if your injecting yourself with needles everyday, how is being injected with dick everyday some kind of issue.

 

Anyhoo, none the less i decided I'm for regulation of heroin, if someone I cared about was addicted to heroin that is bad enough, but the risk of diesease and a life of crime makes that so much worse. I think heroin use would definately rise, because Europeans have completely different culture to us, even before drugs where legal in holland, there youth weren't into drug taking that much, just like countries where kids can drink like france are always outdrunk by the american children.

 

But they were still nowhere near the problem we have today. Opium dens were available for users, they weren't persecuted and could go about their lives like normal people. This century we started arresting and stygmatising them, forced everyone into the black market - and lo and behold, we now have a huge black market, no control over distribution or user's health anymore, and we've suddenly got far more heroin users than we ever had before.

 

The main problem is not the legality of heroin, people dont stigmatise cannabis users near as much as heroin users, because of the simple reason that heroin users stick needles in themselves, and as diesease spreads so does fear and hatred of junkies. The black market causes shitloads of crime, but people are more scared of dying from aids than having there VCR stolen, and the less junkies in existance the more comfortable people will be to live there lives. The public I believe would probably be more for a mass culling of junkies communist china style than the legalisation of heroin.

 

User need better quality Herion:

You can't put out a fire fuelled by unleaded petrol by pouring hi-octane avgas on it. The only way for intravenous drugs users to function perfectly well is society is to stop jabbing themselves with needles

 

yeah man, thats what its all about. pure heroin pure shmeroin, I dont give a fuck for the rights of junkies, they go around commiting manslaughter and never suffer the consequences.

 

I seriously believe a bulk fingerprinting needs to be done of all users let into any heroin program, so discarded needles can be traced back to the user to suffer very heavy fines and jail terms, people catching diesease from discarded syringes should be a murder charge, I know its only manslaughter, but the stopping of used needles in the street needs a zero-tolerance approach while heroin should be regulated, anyway my final 2c.