WA PASSES NEW CANNABIS BILL

[Tom]

australian_activist, I have offered you the chance to learn more about growing and consumption, I would strongly advise you to take that offer as if you don't your lack of knowledge on the subjects will earn you even more harsh replies than you have received to date.

 

You have obviously never grown your own pot or have done so very poorly.

[pipeman]

you are still talking in general terms. You do not have any experience in cultivation as you have admitted. Most of us do. So you are not going to convince anyone here unless you prove it.

 

Let me tell you mate in no uncertain terms no one here believes you. Who do you think is more likely to be right, a bunch of growers who have years of experience or you who has no experience? If you want to prove us wrong, get yourself a calender or planner or whatever, and plot out how you are going to grow, harvest and dry over a year to keep yourself in regular supply keeping within 30 grams and 2 plants. Lets set a consumption amount of 1/4 ounce a week, a very modest target.

 

Some facts/assumptions to help you:

1. To harvest from seed takes 4 months

2. You have 50% chance of getting males which are useless

3. To clone & harvest from mother plant takes 3 months

4. From harvest to having properly dried & cured bud takes minimum of 1 month, usually longer.

5. Dried bud weight will be about 1/3 of harvested bud weight

 

You can use a staged harvest if you think that will help you.

 

Of course this is just the tip of the iceberg. What about the poor old outdoor growers who don't want to waste the money on an indoor setup? How are they meant to survive? What about med users who are constantly searching for different strains that best help their condition? What about share houses and married couples? How many plants/stash can they have? Why should people be forced to waste money, time and effort growing all year round when they can accomplish the same thing with 2-3 decent crops?

 

You keep saying this legislation is an improvement like that means something, but when you look at the starting point that really means nothing. It is still no where near the quantum of improvement we need to even get logic and sanity visible on the horizon.

 

You have been set a specific challenge. Experience and knowledge are against your opinions. If you are serious you will now knuckle down with a calender and show us how its done or admit you are wrong. Any more talking in general terms or waxing intellectual about your research studies will be mocked for the nonsense that they are. I look forward to your conclusions.

[Guest niall]

Overgrow is a US BASED CULTIVATION SITE. Not really that informative for australian research.

 

Agreed, I only said I've spent some time there so I do know a thing or two about growing - not that it was relevent to Australian demographics. No-one seems to read what people write anymore, they respond based on what they thought you said, not what you actually said

 

And yes, cultivators who grow for personal use have been grossly underrepresented in NDRI samples.... and I'd say that the avg user has been grossly underrepresented too...10g use per year is a flawed figure and you know it.

 

No I don't Prove it. We need more data, until then this is the best we have. Agreed?

 

I can name 50 people off the top of my head who'd smoke more that that in a week. The cannabis industry in Australia is a multi-billion dollar industry.  If the avg. smoker was only using 10g a year this just wouldn't be the case, would it.

 

It seems reasonable, yes, but so does a small percentage of users using significantly more than the rest. Cannabis dependency is less than 10%, based on some of the usage rates you guys have thrown about, perhaps you guys are the ones driving the industry? It's all speculation and anecdotal evidence. Unless you can point out other research, this is the best we have. Yes, this doesn't mean it's 100% accurate, but it gives us a very good indication at the very least.

 

Research based on what those who are busted say that they smoke, and mind you, those who are busted are more likely going to be large scale commercial cultivators, not the avg perso grower, is flawed from the beginning.  You can't say, well, we catch criminals who say they only smoke 1/4 grm a week.... so that must be avg use....  what a ridiculous idea. To learn the average cannabis use annually for personal growers and regular users you would be better off actually going out and finding them and asking these questions to them, with a specific survey, rather than just ask those who get busted for blowing up their house with too many ballasts how much they smoke a week and then call that the avg. personal use rate. ::

 

Agreed Until then...

 

And where in the legistlation does it enshrine the right to self medicate with cannabis?  There are no exceptions or provisions in this law for medicinal use, and the govt has no plans to supply the stuff to those who may NEED it as a medicine.... It's a fucking joke.

 

It doesn't, medicinal use and industrial hemp are the next cannabis isues to be debated now that recreational penalties have been reformed. The Minister for Agriculture has had draft legislation pending for at least a year now, but I suspect they wanted to get recreational use covered first. Medical use will be a valid defence in court, and that could prompt a change in the law. The UN treaties are specifically dependent on our Constitution, and specifically allow medical use - as Canada and the Netherlands have discovered. Medical use was not the focus of this legislation.

 

And if the legistlation doesn't reflect the realities of growing cannabis for your own consuption, it will simply make things worse.

 

Agreed - to a point. It complicates things, but you guys are seriously not the average cannabis user/grower.

 

The views you have regarding growing are curious, you seem to say that because you've read a few books you are knowledgable as to how cannabis grows and how to maintain it.

 

No, I haven't.

 

A progressive harvest is a very difficult thing to manage unless you know what you are doing, and is by no means the best way to get good buds.

 

Agreed, I thought I was very clear on both of these points.

 

And ultimately the legistlation should be aiming to improve the quality, safety and efficacy of the recreational and medicinal drugs which we are using, for the safety aspects inherent in improving these things.

 

One would hope, but that is not the aim of this legislation! It is about removing disproportionate penalties, that is all. They cannot regulate cannabis yet, so they are regulating what they can and addressing public opinion that criminal records are inappropriate. That is all.

 

Regulating the hydroponics industry will do nothing to prevent people growing their own weed

With hydroponics higher quality, and much more efficient growing is possible.  This shouldn't be discouraged, but actively encouraged.  The dutch are making fucking millions of dollars out of this industry.  WA has several businessess which are aimed at the home cultivator...  These businessess are being directly affected and are going to either move interstate, or offshore. 

 

Agreed.

 

and I have no idea why the government would want to discourage it.

 

This is clear, believe me. Try to see things from their perspective. They believe, wrongly, that cannabis is an extremely addictive, harmful drug. Given this, they want to discourage it at all levels - particularly in the hydroponic industry as other States have shown that hydroponic retailers have been some of the largest commercial cultivators. It makes sense to me, they're just working with a flawed assumption. This is the heart of the problem, until this is addressed we will be stuck with variations on the same prohibitive theme.

 

I think you'll find this site will teach you a heck of a lot more about the realities of growing personal weed in australia than any of the books you've read from your library... (most of which aren't written by cultivators, and if they are, are usually 20+ years old) let alone what you'll learn on OG.  Its like saying you can learn about Western Australia's wine industry by reading books and looking at a website about growing wine in france.

 

I disagree. OG has taught me far more than this site ever will because I went there first. Growing indoors is the same the world over, given the same gene pool, it only gets different when you move outdoors - and even then it's not significantly different. I'm already way up on the learning curve, it's too late for me to learn significantly more here.

 

I don't want you to get the idea that any of this is meant as a personal affront to you... because I do think that we need more organisation on a state level here for reform.  What I don't think we need is false hope that this will make things any different, when it's blatantly not going to do much for the real personal use growers out there.  And to say otherwise is just not true.

 

I agree, I just don't believe you guys are the average user/grower, or that this legislation is false hope. It is the most significant step we've ever taken on this issue - and it will lead to further, incremental changes over time. Regulation is inevitable - it's only a question of when. Each step towards that is an improvement, and that's the only way we'll ever get there in Australia - either that or following the lead of more progressive countries with decent protection of individual rights.

 

So if this legistlation fails someone like me, who's probably one of the smaller personal cultivators... (I know a lot of others growing a substantially larger amount and it all goes into personal smoke) then it's not going to make life better for the avg personal cultivator.

 

I know what you're saying, and I agree. We just have no evidence to support this, and that's the only way the law can be changed. Until the stigma is significantly reduced, it's almost impossible to get an accurate sampling. You guys aren't being busted enough to skew the figures.

 

And as to the argument about U.N. treaties... well, seems to me that a lot of other countries are legalising and allowing personal consumption and growth without criminal sanction, and not to mention medical use being legalised too, so why can't we?

 

Not a single country has legalised anywhere in the world. It is still illegal in the Netherlands, Spain, Switzerland etc. In Canada it is temporarily not illegal. No-one has broken the UN treaties yet, they just don't enforce the laws to their fullest. There's a difference. I want to change the laws, not allow them to be largely unenforced. Medical use is a different issue, the public and the Government overwhelmingly supports this and it will be addressed. They're tackling the harder issue of recreational use first, doing it backwards would have been political suicide.

 

I don't believe for a second that they couldn't remove themselves from these obviously tainted and illogical treaties on Drug policy and law should they have the political will and the voters demand it.

 

Agreed, we just aren't demanding it yet. The first problem is educating the public and our politicians, we need to first change public opinion to the point where everyone knows the truth, and recognises that prohibition and criminal sanctions have been an absolute disaster.

 

so I don't think you can say this is what is holding us back from legalisation.

 

The UN treaties are it, once they fall more countries will experiment and then we'll have the proof that we gained nothing, that there are better approaches to public health. We could take this all the way, change public opinion, get all the support we need - and still our politicians would not dare do it. They'll wait for other countries that can afford to defy these USA engineered policies to make the first move. Look at Canada, the people overwhelming support medical use, and now the majority support regulation. In the US legalisation is approaching 40% and medical use is 80%+ - but this doesn't mean their elected representatives will act.

 

The evidence is clear that the vast majority of people caught in WA will benefit from this legislation.

No, the evidence is not clear. It's not clear at all, and that's the point.

 

You have yet to make your case then. The vast majority of people caught in WA will benefit from this legislation - this is an undeniable fact, NDRI figures show that this is the case, these figures are the basis for this legislation! We're talking about those who got caught here.

 

Bullshit, it makes life harder for those of us who chose to grow pot in the real world.  Let alone those who use and grow for medical purposes and have to try and find a strain suitable to their needs.

 

I agree, it makes it harder for you guys. To change it, you need to do something about it. Participate in NDRI research, they do regular cannabis surveys - not just of those who have been caught. Write to your MPs and explain why you think this legislation is unworkable, how it is flawed. Get involved in the political process, sign up and join the Marijuana Party when I kick things off next year. Arguing about it here is fun, but unless we have actual scientific research and evidence supporting our case, we're not going to make a dent.

[white_cluster]

mnn Edited September 29, 2003 by white_cluster

[Chev]

Sorry, going to be rude again Wasn't going to get into this, but I hate seeing clueless people floundering under mis-information, so I'll help the poor guy along a bit.

but you guys are seriously not the average cannabis user/grower

Put up, or fuck off. Simple. One look at your post tells me you have NO IDEA. I'm a normal everyday mum, run a household, look after the young one etc. I DO NOT consume ounces a week, but this 10gr bullshit? I think a crim would LHAO. I consume that every few days some weeks, depending on how sore I am.

Damned near impossible? Harvest 30g and destroy the rest Who's forcing you to harvest all of it, let alone all of it at once? If you're using more than 30g a month, you probably can't stay eligible for a CIN - but until you guys can provide evidence that your use is average, that the NDRI figures are way out, I'm more inclined to believe professional research than a small group of grower/users who happen to frequent this particular (predominantly cultivation based) forum

I'm actually beginning to think you're a smart under-ager that's bored ::

Destroy the rest? I put my time and effort to grow beautiful buds, and you want me to keep 30g and destroy the rest? Like I said, put up, or fuck-off. Your information is so off the mark it's not funny. So piss off back to the professionals. We all obviously have no idea what we're talking about, do we? People of your kind, oh yeah we want to help legalise it, though we can't even get our figures straight, piss me off.

I'd beleive a crim over a cop any day of the week, in terms of figures ::

Edited September 29, 2003 by chev81

[Tom]

I disagree. OG has taught me far more than this site ever will because I went there first. Growing indoors is the same the world over, given the same gene pool, it only gets different when you move outdoors - and even then it's not significantly different. I'm already way up on the learning curve, it's too late for me to learn significantly more here.

As I said, you know stuff all about growing and consumption, 80% of members at OG are just as misinformed as you are. Growing indoors is not the same the world over and outdoor growing varies considerably with the climate, haven’t you done any gardening at all?

 

I agree, I just don't believe you guys are the average user/grower

Most of us fall way short of being termed as heavy users, you just have no idea what an average user is and it is obvious by now that you have closed your mind on the issue.

 

australian_activist, please don't think that you represent Australian pot user/grower interests, it is my opinion that you would do us more harm than good.

 

By the way, I have been researching pot and it's cultivation for over 25 years.

 

In view of the tone of some of the replies to australian_activist I have decided that it is time to move this topic to the bitchin' room so that the members can tell you more plainly about how they feel.

[Chev]

Taz.......I'm in loooooove! ::

[Chev]

Seriously,

You really shouldn't be sprouting this crap. I just re-read this thread from start to finish, and I'm actually shaking my head in disbelief. I don't even grow near enough to support myself, but I'm to scared to grow anymore. So I still have to go and hunt around for it. Like a common fucking criminal. I got more to lose too, so I tell you what. Please, until you have experienced life a little more in the way of marijuana use in reality and not books, just go away. I'm really pissed over this issue, so stop pushing this ridiculous bullshit or you won't know what hit you.

Edited September 29, 2003 by chev81

[Guest BudWaver]

i have to say i love yas all....

 

irrespective of how out of touch your opinion may be....

[Chev]

You run outta pot or something budwaver?http://216.40.249.192/s/contrib/ruinkai/biglaugh.gif