Strange Behavior

[Rootty]

Hey Guys,

 

I have three Kali Mists in a small growroom in a recirculating Bubbler system.

 

Since the beggining, one of the plants showed a slower development and stained leaves. I quit trying to address the "problem" and accepted the idea that it could be a genetic issue with this particular plant.

 

I´m saying this because I tryed almost everything and the three are sharing very similar situations:

- same nutrients for all, as individual buckets are connected to the same central control-bucket;

- same light - a 600w HPS bulb hanging without reflector in the middle of them;

- same air circulation - I have already change their places with no noticeable effects.

 

Kali Mists have a looong flowering time (around 13 weeks), and they are into week number 8 by now. This slow-development plant shows nice buds, but will yield 1/3 to 1/5 of her bigger sisters, for sure.

 

I used Dyna-gro Blooming nutes, but changed to Hesi Flora + Hesi PK. I keep the EC at 1000 uSiemens, the pH between 5,4~5,9 and the temperature never goes higher than 80F in the grow and 70F in the nutes.

 

Here are some pics of the grow and some details of the sick baby.

 

Does anyone have a guess of what could it be? The seeds are from Serious Seeds and have been stored in the refrigerator for 18 months. I was VERY lucky to sprout three seeds and find out all three were females (not feminilized seeds).

 

I would appreciate any comment.

 

Regards

[bluntman_77]

not quite sure what the deficiency is but KM does take a LONG LONG time to flower . from what I have seen from her 13 weeks can go longer and yield is not great on an average size indoor plant . it could be your getting what you should get.

[Radic]

greetnz Rooty

ouch

they are not happy

seen

imho

there is a combination of problems happin here

 

1st

 

grow room tempz at 80F is too high

sollution

bring them down--> AC rulez

bigger fans all round are a must

or

add co2

 

2nd

 

the pH between 5,4~5,9 is too acidic

raize it to 5.9 ~ 6.5

but tell me more bout your recirculating Bubbler system.

do you mean DWC or Airoponics

i do hear of plants thriving in slightly more acidic nutrient sollutions

around 5.5

correct me if im wrong people

but i feel 5.4 is pushing a bit hard

 

3rd

 

nutrient burn -->from running your nutrient sollution too hot

or/and toixc nutrient build up

solution

flush flush flush

dowit now

and

flush more often than you have been

may be even lower your nutrient sollution EC

 

crucial

 

check your waters PH and EC before you

flush

 

if your EC shows something in the water and you dont know what it is

than filter the water first

Reverse Ossmosis rulez

seen

you only need to correct the ph if below 6ph or above 7ph

dont fix it

if it aint broke

irey,

in most cases you should be fine to just go with what you got.

meanwhile

when the flush is running

clean out all the pumps and pipes and the nutrient sollution holding tank

same way

flush with pure water

irey

please

if there is someting that is not clear

just ask

seen

the whole perpose of a flush

is to clean any toxic nutrient salt build up,

 

out of your pots

seen

now

flush

exactly like diss

 

start flush

just

pour pure water into the top of the pot or rootzone

fast nuff to completely cover the top of the pot

but too fast

do not let the water over flow the top edges of the pot

seen

let all the flushed water from the bottom of the pot---> drain to waste

which

at first the water draining from the bottom of the pots will be dark colored

this is the salts comming out

seen

now continue

keep poring the water into the top of the pot at that rate

untill

the water that runs out of the bottom of the pot is--->100%clear <---

irey

when the water that runs out of the bottom of the pot is--->100%clear <---

then stop

 

the flush is now finished, over

completed correctly

seen

it may take 30min

or 3hrz

to complete each flush for each plant

seen

 

next

 

start with a fresh made sollution mixed at 1/2 your usual strength for the first feed after the flush all day

 

then the next day

 

mix a fresh nutrient sollution to usual strength for their age and stage of growth

 

they should be right with that usual strength sollution

for one week

well

most plans recomend that you flush every week

check your nutrient bottle lable for your flush timetable

but even then remember

that is just a guide for most plants

yet

every plant is different

 

if you see signs of nutrient burn at 1000 uSiemens

lower it

most plans give a max ppm and a min ppm to aim for when mixing the fresh sollution

the min is the best one to aim for

fine tune to run your system as lean as possible

that is

to get the max growth rates at the min uSiemens nutrient sollution

seen

 

irey guidance

[mrsmokey1]

Im with radic looks like 2 strong nutes/and salt biuld up

[Rootty]

Hey Guys,

 

First of all, THANK YOU VERY much for the contributions and the welcome message(s).

By my previous post and with the pictures there, it is quite difficult not to say it is a nute burn or something to do with the temp, to the setup or related to pests.

 

So, here are some more information and ilustrative pictures, to show the "strange behavior" and to show that the plants are, in fact, VERY happy:

 

About the setup:

- My DWC setup is formed by three bubbler buckets connected to a central bucket.

- all bubblers have airstones and the central bucket has twice as much. I use a Hanna pH/EC/Temp meter and calibrate it regularly

- the nutes circulate to each bubbler at about 15 gph, ie, it changes completely at a 5x/hour rate

- the concentration is about 1000 uSiemens, but it raises to 1150 uSiemens at the end of each day, which means the plants are taking more water than nutes, so I lower the concentration to about 900 uSiements and it seems to have estabilized at this concentration. Will completely ignore any suggestion to increase concentration.

 

About the children:

- the other two are VERY happy, with the normal signs of healthy babies into flowering (see pictures)

- the "sick" plant seems normal on the lower half, but the higher-half keeps increasing the leaves with yellow stains like the pictures I´ve posted earlier

- there is NO sigh of bugs or pests in the leaves nor in the roots of any of them (I guess any problem of this nature would rapidly spread to the other two, no?)

 

So, here are the facts....

 

I would appreciate your experienced comments.

 

Regards.

[Radic]

irey thanx for the facts

 

the top half eh

Q

are the growing tips effected too

this would indicate a nutrient problem

or

is it only in the new leaf

i can see from the pix that it does not start in the tips of the leafletts

that seams to point to a nutrient problem

and not a heat problem

seen

if it is a nutrient problem then

flush

and start again as i detailed above

that will 100% fix it

because the nutruent sollution you have paid $$$ for is designed to be 100% complete

Crucial

you must follow the direction correctly

then

no chance of any possible nutrient deficence

and the flush will clean out the root zone of any possible toxicbuild up in the tanks or pipes

no need to try and suplement with additives to fix it

just flush and start again

seen

 

however

the top half of the plant

seen

may indicate heat related too or as well

because the top of the grow room is hoter than the bottom

seen

as the other plants are uneffected

is the suffera the closest plant to the light?????????

 

the last option is plant desease or genetic defect

you dont wanna go there

rip her now is the best ting to do

she is a watse of valuable grow space,

she will never deliver,

her treatment is more expense

and she may even pose a danger to the others

 

i dout she has a disease

if it was a genetic defect she would have had it since day 1

 

 

yo

remember

once the damage is done

the damaged leaf will never recover,

never regrow

is it done

sory,

but

the best you can expect is to stop it from effecting the new growth

and that the damage to the leaf will not continue to expand till the leaf dies

irey guidance

[Rootty]

Radic,

 

Thanx again for the tips.

 

My guess is that the strange plant has a genetic issue, because she has always showed a smaller development. As all of them had completely stopped growing, the older leaves on the top-half are the ones showing this extreme problem. SOmetime ago I used to trim these leaves (to know if the problem was increasing or not), and now I know it is increasing.

But even with a genetic issue, I think the wisest thing is to keep it, because its buds are small but full of resin. Besides the yield, it is still a good sativa with the uplift effect I am seeking for. I can experience with it, like doing water-cure and a tincture, instead of cutting it down, no?

The two pictures in the last post show the top-half (with yellow leaves) and the botton-half (with green leaves and many popcorn buds).

 

I forgot to say: the grow has a very good ventilation system that makes fresh and filtered air (for no bugs or dust) enter by the botton part and exhaust by an sealed aperture on the ceiling. It changes the air completely every minute or so. The issue with the 80F temp was that the termometer was too close to the bulb.

 

The sick plant is, in fact, the least closest to the bulb. The "big sister" is the one about 6" from the bulb side and still shows no sign of heat burn.

 

Will flush..flush..flush, for sure...

 

Thanks again.

Regards

[nitram]

I'm wuith redic. It looks like "nute lock out" - the typical rusting and wasting - like strangulation.

 

Lost leaves is a pity as they are what dose the pumping to your buds.

 

 

Rasic Rulz "Flush" Flush" buld up to higher EC (PPM) ...... back on track .

Nitty.

[Rootty]

... flush I will.

But isn´t it strange that those three babies sharing the same nute solution (it recirculates) only one shows this and the other two are thriving?

I have just re-checked the buckets and the roots of all of them are healthy-white (not even that light-brown or cream color).

Thanks

[Radic]

irey rootty

maybe she wants to be treated as an individual

if you seperate her from the main tank

then you could experiment a bit with her feeds and flushs

her geens might require lower CF and/or more flushes

put the tempeture guage near the dammage area,

she maybe caught in some heat pockett???

or some other heat source could be responcible

dont rule enviromental conditions out yet

try move her around a bit to or fro the light

find that sweet spot

could it be a lay line problem????????

or some electro-magnetic field interferance from electric wires or undergroung water

yo

all diss extra work and $$$

and the fact remains

her yeild will be down

for real

the dammage is done now

and canna be reversed

this fact must be considered

every leaf that is damaged will produce a stunted bud

each leaf is the factory and the wharehouse that supplys everyting the bud closest needs to grow

the more damage = the more stunted the bud will be

there is a piont no return

remember

the other plants will benifett from the extra space

 

yo

if her geens are a must keep

i would seperate her, reveg her and take clonez

and start again

 

irey guidance