harpin protein - messenger

[mickdundee]

Keepleft, I wouldn't post a diary over at UK420 if I were you. Unless you leave out the bit about having already used Rock flower juice on them. They don't like PGRs at UK420. Are you going to use that phone camera for your grow diary?

 

I think adding a couple of drops of washing up liquid will be ok if you don't want to use penetrator.

Edited October 11, 2006 by mickdundee

[keepleft]

hey mate why are they against the PGR's so much??? i know that superbud was a bit controversial but i am a HUGE fan of the RJ. except for the density of the flowers you wouldn't be able to tell that a PGR has been used.

 

nah the quality of phone camera is crap. ill take the shots with a proper digi

 

are u in the UK or OZ? in the UK they have HALO which is the same as messenger 3%. unfortunately in OZ we cant get either here as harpin hasnt be approved and wont be for at least 18months as its a biopesticide. so only way to get it here is by mailorder from o'seas

 

i was looking at some of the results on eden's website as to its use on vege's in peoples backyards, very impressive.

[mickdundee]

hey mate why are they against the PGR's so much??? i know that superbud was a bit controversial but i am a HUGE fan of the RJ. except for the density of the flowers you wouldn't be able to tell that a PGR has been used.

 

I think many there take a dim view of those that use it because it is a site for those that only grow for personal use. Therefore, they are judgmental of those that use substances with debatable safety because they wouldn't use it themselves on buds for personal smoke. Don't get me wrong, they won't really troll you. They just won't be very supportive of you in a grow diary demonstrating it's use. A grow diary is inviting people to comment on and judge your work, so they will. If you make a grow diary there, at most only mention RJ in passing, focus on the diary being about the use and testing of harpin protein. Well, if you want supportive responses that is.

 

nah the quality of phone camera is crap. ill take the shots with a proper digi

 

That's why I was asking mate. I saw some pics that you took with your phone camera and they were too low res to make out anything in detail. A grow diary needs proper pics to do your work justice.

 

are u in the UK or OZ? in the UK they have HALO which is the same as messenger 3%. unfortunately in OZ we cant get either here as harpin hasnt be approved and wont be for at least 18months as its a biopesticide. so only way to get it here is by mailorder from o'seas

 

I'm what you lot refer to as a........pommy bastard. I always wanted to be Mick Dundee though. You don't get too many crocs in the UK.

 

i was looking at some of the results on eden's website as to its use on vege's in peoples backyards, very impressive.

 

Yes but as you know, they are only going to show pics of the better results and each species of plant is going to react differently, so the only way to gage it's effectiveness on cannabis is to do your own tests and be your own judge. The early feedback for harpin protein used on cannabis has been positive so far but some measurments and figures are what we really need.

 

Mickdundee

Edited October 12, 2006 by mickdundee

[keepleft]

hey mick i applied the messenger today

 

used it on 50% of the crop. mixed half a pack (1.9 grams) to 1.9 litres. 1 pack is 3.8 grams which is to be added to 1 gallon (3.785 lts).

 

i added 20ml of penetrator to the 1.9 lt mix

 

only thing i forgot to do is i mixed it with tap water! i had the demineralised water but i forgot it.

 

misted the plants top to bottom

 

anyway ill post pics in a week to show any difference..... there 3 weeks into 12/12

 

next week ill apply to 14 day seedlings.....

[mickdundee]

hey mick i applied the messenger today

 

used it on 50% of the crop. mixed half a pack (1.9 grams) to 1.9 litres. 1 pack is 3.8 grams which is to be added to 1 gallon (3.785 lts).

 

i added 20ml of penetrator to the 1.9 lt mix

 

only thing i forgot to do is i mixed it with tap water! i had the demineralised water but i forgot it.

 

misted the plants top to bottom

 

anyway ill post pics in a week to show any difference..... there 3 weeks into 12/12

 

next week ill apply to 14 day seedlings.....

 

Hi mate, it's a shame that you forgot about the water, let's hope that it doesn't kill/denature the proteins before they get absorbed. Do you have a pH meter? If so, I recommend that next time you add penetrator bit by bit, checking the pH as you go. Maybe you already did. I'm looking forward to some nice pics soon.

[keepleft]

good idea re the ph meter. in the past ive tested the penetrator when its mixed with water at full strength and from memory its ph is over 9 but under 10. i mixed it at half strength on the basis that it would be under 9. but next time ill add it ml by ml and try and limit the ph to 8 or thereabouts.

 

will post pics in a few days. cheers

[mickdundee]

How's it coming with the harpin mate? I guess that changes might be hard to spot so early on. I think it might be an accumulative effect over several weeks and several applications.

 

Hey, what did I say about not mentioning Rock flower juice at UK420? I told you that it would cause some controversy. Atleast you chose to bring it up in a less busy area where some of the main disaproving members don't visit often. I had to settle things down by getting people to agree to find some middle ground in the fact that toxicity is unknown.

 

Mick

[keepleft]

hi mick yeah i found it a bit amusing to see how anti pgr's they were over there!

 

its been a week since i applied, as they are now 4 weeks into flower and have been treated with rock juice its hard to tell the difference. i did notice some very shiny leaves - which is apparently a side effect

 

however, as i used tap water last time and added 20ml of penetrator to the mix of 2lts of messenger i figured i might have stuffed it. if not the chlorine in tap water the ph of the penetrator would for sure. the ph of penetrator mixed full strenght is between 10 and 11!

 

i tested 2ml of penetrator in 2lts of water and the ph was over 9. with 20ml of penetrator in 2lts of water it is over 10. eden bioscience has stated that messenger should be maintained between 5 and 9 ph.

 

so today i mixed a new batch and did it properly. 1.9 grams of messenger in 1.9 lts of deminarilised water (ph of 7.0). i warmed the water first to propertly dissolve the granules (this was advised by eden). i then added 2ml of penetrator which brought the ph to 8.7 wiht the messenger. i then sprayed half the ladies which are now at the beginning of week 5.

 

i also sprayed half the 14 day old ladies in veg. there all a foot tall. i think that will be a good control as the changes would be more obvious.

 

i didnt have my digi camera so ill take some shots tomorrow for you. even if u cant see the messegner working yet, you can still admire the rockjuice infested buds

 

keep u up to date. ill be spraying again in 2 weeks. theres still 4 weeks of flowering to go...

 

im curious to see if it elongates the veg ones too...

 

and a question off topic, what ec do u use in flower? cheers

Edited October 21, 2006 by keepleft

[mickdundee]

Hi Mate,

 

hi mick yeah i found it a bit amusing to see how anti pgr's they were over there!

 

I'm not exactly pro PGRs either but I'm not anti PGRs. I consider myself neutral. I tried to bring some neutrality to the discussion. I do admire the look of Rock flower juice buds, there just needs to be far more transparency in labelling so that we know which PGRs they contain.

 

so today i mixed a new batch and did it properly. 1.9 grams of messenger in 1.9 lts of deminarilised water (ph of 7.0). i warmed the water first to propertly dissolve the granules (this was advised by eden). i then added 2ml of penetrator which brought the ph to 8.7 wiht the messenger. i then sprayed half the ladies which are now at the beginning of week 5.

 

I think 8.7 is a little too close to Eden bioscience's recommended limit of 9. Have you thought about using some pH down? I'd try to get the pH down to about 8 because the solution might become more concentrated once it enters the leaves through the stigmata as water is absorbed by the cells. 8 would give a nice margin for error. I'd check with Eden if you can to see if a pH down like phosphoric acid is ok and not oxydizing in any way. I don't think it is. You could always use plain soap as a wetting agent. Many use it in their foliar sprays.

 

i didnt have my digi camera so ill take some shots tomorrow for you. even if u cant see the messegner working yet, you can still admire the rockjuice infested buds

 

Oh goodie, I like a bit of bud porn. What strain are you growing? How many watts per square meter/foot?

 

and a question off topic, what ec do u use in flower? cheers

 

I don't grow at the moment but when I did, I grew in coco and I went by ml of solution. I did use to go by ppm/ec but once I found that canna coco nutes performed best for me, I stuck with them and could afford to go by ml of solution instead. I live in a hard water area and it was frustrating to have to subtract the fluctuating ec of the water off of the nutes to get the right figure. Once you get used to one line of products and get the amounts dialed in, it's easier to just go by ml, unless in hydro.

Edited October 21, 2006 by mickdundee

[keepleft]

Hi Mate,

I'm not exactly pro PGRs either but I'm not anti PGRs. I consider myself neutral. I tried to bring some neutrality to the discussion. I do admire the look of Rock flower juice buds, there just needs to be far more transparency in labelling so that we know which PGRs they contain.

I think 8.7 is a little too close to Eden bioscience's recommended limit of 9. Have you thought about using some pH down? I'd try to get the pH down to about 8 because the solution might become more concentrated once it enters the leaves through the stigmata as water is absorbed by the cells. 8 would give a nice margin for error. I'd check with Eden if you can to see if a pH down like phosphoric acid is ok and not oxydizing in any way. I don't think it is. You could always use plain soap as a wetting agent. Many use it in their foliar sprays.

Oh goodie, I like a bit of bud porn. What strain are you growing? How many watts per square meter/foot?

I don't grow at the moment but when I did, I grew in coco and I went by ml of solution. I did use to go by ppm/ec but once I found that canna coco nutes performed best for me, I stuck with them and could afford to go by ml of solution instead. I live in a hard water area and it was frustrating to have to subtract the fluctuating ec of the water off of the nutes to get the right figure. Once you get used to one line of products and get the amounts dialed in, it's easier to just go by ml, unless in hydro.

 

hi mate, i agree re the ph at 8.7 being a bit close for comfort! i really didnt expect the ph to shoot up from under 7 to almost 9 with only 2ml of penetrator in 2lts of water. i have always been a bit concerned as to how high the ph of that penetrator product is. to be honest, eden doesnt even suggest to use a wetting agent, so next time im inclined to use it without.

 

ive never used plain soap, how many drops of palmolive should i add to 2lts of solution???

 

watts per square foot in flower is almost 105. thats a mix of HPS and MH. i know its a bit of light overkill! i used to use 600's but i found they didnt penetrate deep enough so i switched back to 1000's. the scrog net size is set up for 600's so using 1000's is overkill. after this crop im going to expand the scrog size to use the light more efficiently. especially with the heat of summer approaching...

 

the veg is 50 watts per square foot. again mix of hps and mh. i'm a big believer in mixing mh and hps.