OP"s please on my basic plumbing idea

[cracker]

This is my 1st attempt at a hydro setup and would like your opinions. I have a number of 5 gl buckets. That's 18 plus liters. the bucket is 300 mm across the top and 350 mm tall. Basic bucket right? They are white and I plan to paint them with black krylon paint supposedly this stuff is designed to adhere to plastics.

whether it is anough to keep light out is still unknown. I want to set these buckets in line with a large single drain manifold leading to a central nutrient sump and a pump feeding a supply manifold that will tee off at each bucket. Both the drain and feed manifolds will be rigid pvc the short sections of both the drains and feed lines between the rigid manifolds and buckets will be flex. with valves on the feed lines to control volume and flow. I like the bubbler systems And I think to extra water in the buckets and in the sump will help maintain stable conditions. I plan a separate fresh water container using a mechanical float valve to steadily replace evaporated water in the nutrient sump. The height of this valve will determine the water level in the sump. For oxygenating the water the drain manifold will have a good drop and, here is the kicker, a high volume pump supplying each bucket with a closed circular spray bar just under the bucket lid spraying the water down to further oxygenate the water instead of an air stone. I 'm confident a large pump will give a good turnover rate and supply anough pressure to make the spray bars effective. besides I already have a big pump but no airpumps. placement of the drain will determine water level in the buckets. I assume the proper level will be determined by the depth of the net pot. Is right at the bottom of the pot right or say an inch or so higher? I want deep pots and try to keep the water level in the bucket as low as practical the spray bars will supply plenty of O2 but the deeper the water more pressure to turn over the water at the bottom is required. the drain can reach down and draw water from the bottom if syphon breaks are used A syphon break is a small air hole drilled just below the water's surface to supply air thus stopping the syphon affect. simple DIY venturis can be installed in the feed lines to further aireate the water. Matching the pump with correct size feed line to get a good balance between volume and pressure will be a challenge. There is more but I should stop before this gets any longer than already is Thanks for letting me ramble An if YA made this far Please critque my idea.

[Chato]

hey bro think i know what ya mean but i'm a bit toasted.

 

re-circ dwc but with spray nozzles on the re-circ?? i've tried it but ditched it straight dwc was much better. same with aero i ditched it because it;s hard to grow pure aero unless you grow em small. the roots get too big and it becomes hybrid a aero nft type deal although i'll go aero again but got to tweak a few things. keep it simple.

 

peace

c

[somoz]

allright bro: ya got a lot going on here but 1st things 1st.........space your ideas out mate............a big ol block of the alphabet is not very easy to read......you dig

 

ok: your basic idea is similiar to big toke's bio buckets from icmag....he has a sticky there that goes step by step on how to construct and you idea about high pressure water movement is right up bio buckets...

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=8182 there's the link

 

as far as krylon goes it works a treat...buy the spray paint if ya can....much easier to work with.....first coat black.....2nd coat white to help the buckets keep cool......that's something else you didn't mention.....ur probably gonna need a chiller as well.....but that's for later....

 

don't know exactly if i understand your low water level high pressure idea...that sounds very much like krusty but i don't think a krusty/bio bucket hybrid will work.....hmmmm....i would say ditch the spray bars and use pvc for big water movement.....

 

the syphon idea sounds interesting but your gonna have a real pita trying to match the flow rates........as the little china man said.......kiss......keep that shit simple yo!

 

good luck with it though

somoz

Edited July 19, 2006 by somoz

[pipeman]

I agree with chato mate you're making this a whole lot more complicated than it needs to be, plus I don't think sprayers in plant buckets will work very well. By the end of a DWC grow those roots are almost a solid mass a sprayer wouldn't be very effective I don't think. plus roots are delicate things, sometimes even if you airstone is bubbling too violently it can cause root damage and slow growth. I don't like the sound of high pressure spray bars on roots. Misters/sprayers yes. High pressure spray, no.

 

Its simple mate you have plant buckets a control bucket (what you call a sump I think) and a res. if you want one for auto top ups. Put an airstone in every bucket including the control bucket and feeder tank. Connect the plant buckets to the control buckets via pipe connected at the bottom. Put a float valve in the control bucket connected to the bottom of your res, which needs to be elevated.

 

If you want to install recirculating on top of this you can use a submersable pump in the control bucket hooked to drippers going ot the top of your netpots. Remember to install an overflow though as drainage out of plant buckets gets real slow once they start to fill up with roots.

 

PS - wrapping your buckets in panda film or mylar and duct tape is the easiest way to lightproof them IMO.

Edited July 19, 2006 by pipeman

[cracker]

I do tend to ramble on at times My intent is to have a system thats quickly breaks down into manageable pieces. And in a 4 by 6 ' area. Also I got a bunch of empty bucket! I'm familiar with BT's biobucket thread. I waded thru his and all the cheerleaders posts. No offense meant And I mean this light hearted but there was not one negative aspect in what 30 pages? Just sounds to good to be true. The bio bucket concept is very familiar to me from my aquaria endevours. Ok my idea is largely based on BT's method I like the idea of constant high turnover, less complicated than a flood & drain, with less equipment needed. A large pump will consume more electricity of course.The freshwater topoff is also a good idea but I liked the spray bar concept to further oxygenate the water. The spray bar is an attemt to get away from airstones

I wish my camera hadn't died recently I could show how the drain syphon works. A drain can pickup from the bottom of a container with out causing a syphon IF the correct amount of air is vented via a small hole drilled in the drain pipe the volume of water leaving the container will match the volume of water entering and maintain a high water level.

One more question I swear! flood and drain setups I understand the cycle is once or twice an hour. Floods for 15 mins or so than remains drained for a longer period of time. Can the same results be had with more cycles that take much less time?

I better STHU now before I wear out my welcome

[cracker]

PipeMan The term "sump" I used was was meant to mean the central container where drain water goes and is pumped back out. Same as Control bucket? I thought I was up on the terminology. Hey I got the 5 gl bucket dimensions converted to metric didn't I? I'm fired up about this so I do tend to get off topic. I enjoy planning a project and considering how each part affect the others and debate this and that. I understand The DWC tubs are self contained per say and not tied together. I think I see why the water lines that tie the plant buckets together via the control bucket are placed near the bottom. this way you can control overall water levels easily by raising and lowering this control bucket. Also it needs to be at the same level as the plant buckets, not sitting underneath . also I assume it makes draining the plant buckets less difficult .

Pipe says, If you want to install recirculating ON TOP of this you can use a submersable pump in the control bucket hooked to drippers going ot the top of your netpots

heres where I get confused. Instead of WANTING to install recirculating wouldn't Ya HAVE to to circulate the nutrient water thru the entire system? Again my opologies if I seem thick headed I just want to see how it all fits together. I gotta remember You guys probably answer the same questions over and again

[pipeman]

no ya don't need to recirculate a bubbler system, when you flush you should pour water through the netpots though to wash off any buildup.

 

what I like most about bubblers is that they're simple. If you want a fancy setup for maximum growth rates go with a sprayer/aero setup. I'm not familiar with the bio bucket system you talk about but if thats complicated and expensive enough for you might be a good option as well. Have you looked into krusty freedom buckets? They were originally on overgrow but I'm sure growers from other sites have copied them...

 

I wouldn't normally suggest these types of setups for a first time grower, but you seem to enjoy the challenge of making things difficult for yourself.

Edited July 20, 2006 by pipeman

[cracker]

Was out of town visiting family, I was talking soil one day then got off on some self invented hydro theory the next. Gentlemen, I respect your knowledge and all my ideas are based on zero experience. I surely don't want to complicate or add expense to this project. I find both concepts highly annoying! However, I do think that, a properly designed system with a high flow/large turnover rate can be a simple, effective and low cost alternative to a dwc /bubbler setup. I want a setup with a number of separate grow containers with a central resevoir along BT's Bio Bucket setup with a few mods of my own. I fully expect a few "I told Ya so's" if I blow it.

[pipeman]

good luck mate go for it. you don't need to justify anything you do. The road to success is built by failure. Timid souls who are afraid of failure rarely succeed in anything in life.

 

I admire people who are willing to experiment and fail more than people who just copy others.

[cracker]

Pipeman, Thanks for the words of encouragement. Since my last post, I setup a row of 6, 5 gallon buckets along the bio bucket technique. I 'm familiar with the concept and it seems a good choice to start with. I would call it a recirculating DWC system. The row of buckets are just under 7 ' long . I have a sump/res with a pump to feed each bucket and a common drain returning .I intend to put my 1000watt light with mover over this and see what happens! I will address proper nutrients after I have a number of decent starts from my sorry bag seed. I start 20 seeds at a time and get 2 or 3 that sprout! I have no expectations at this point and I regret I can't share any picts with Ya'll for now, but as soon as I can I will.