Coronavirus.

[Nonannystate]

Hey Nonannystate,

 

The stay at home orders, the public congregations, the lockdown protests, the border breaches and yea they went about their lives, but considering what we'd seen occur elsewhere in the world why did people disregard it all?

 

Because it's their right to do so which is the point I am arguing.

I'm saying I believe the onus should be on "YOU" to manage your own affairs. If that means you stay at home until you feel safe, then so be it.  If it means you are happy to go about your life knowing the risks, then that's fine. More power to you. I believe in minimalist government intervention. (ie....No mandated lockdowns/restrictions)

 

 

 

 

What would we rather have? a state crippled by over governance or a state crippled by death. We can recover from over governance. I'm yet to see anyone recover from death.

 

Merl1n

I think the mortality rate would need to be considerably higher if there was a chance we would be crippled as a nation/state by death. You could almost argue the case for a speedier recovery from high death rates than from ruination caused by totalitarian government policy.

 

Then again, I could be completely and utterly batshit crazy which is entirely possible! 

[Anoma]

In my opinion there's too many variables involved with what has happened over the past 12 months to definitively say that any person/government/whatever has done right or wrong or even just did their best.

 

And when another side of Government or even your Uncle or Grandma says that they or someone else could've done better, well... that's easy to say now, after a precedent has been set.

[benn0]

Gosh I hate this common law argument about freedom of movement, people don't realize the health act easily overrides it

[Nonannystate]

Gosh I hate this common law argument about freedom of movement, people don't realize the health act easily overrides it

And I hate this "roll over and scratch my belly" mentality which assumes that government is the only way forward and has the good of the people front and foremost in mind.

Different strokes for different folks.

I'm fine with taking responsibility solely for me and mine and with the consequences that may bring. We don't all need nor want a master.

[merl1n]

 

 

I'm saying I believe the onus should be on "YOU" to manage your own affairs. If that means you stay at home until you feel safe, then so be it.  If it means you are happy to go about your life knowing the risks, then that's fine. More power to you. I believe in minimalist government intervention. (ie....No mandated lockdowns/restrictions)

 

I think that's a 'Common sense' approach. The problem is that 'Common sense' ain't very common at all.

Some people need to be told directly or else they just don't get it. 'Stay Safe, Stay Home'. That's fairly direct. Knowing the risks is one thing, but comprehending the risks is open to interpretation and some people just don't get it.

 

 

I think the mortality rate would need to be considerably higher if there was a chance we would be crippled as a nation/state by death. You could almost argue the case for a speedier recovery from high death rates than from ruination caused by totalitarian government policy.

 

 

My use of the word 'crippled' was in direct reference to your statement "I'd rather see the minority inconvenienced for a time (myself included) than a state crippled by over governance!" But, I still believe had they not put the restrictions in place back when they did, the death rate would have skyrocketed. Just look at Europe now, they put restrictions in place, the people yelled and screamed about it all, so the restrictions were dropped and look at what's happened to their infection numbers, they've EXPLODED. This is a clear example of what happens when we leave it all open to interpretation. Some people get it....  ....but some simply don't.

 

Merl1n

 

 

[merl1n]

 

DOH, apologies for the double up here. was trying to edit and lost it, only to find it had been posted before the re-post. I was gonna try another edit to get rid of it, but I'd probably end up with a 3rd post. Tsk 

 

 

I'm saying I believe the onus should be on "YOU" to manage your own affairs. If that means you stay at home until you feel safe, then so be it.  If it means you are happy to go about your life knowing the risks, then that's fine. More power to you. I believe in minimalist government intervention. (ie....No mandated lockdowns/restrictions)

 

I think that's a 'Common sense' approach. The problem is that 'Common sense' ain't very common at all.

Some people need to be told directly or else they just don't get it. 'Stay Safe, Stay Home'. That's fairly direct. Knowing the risks is one thing, but comprehending the risks is open to interpretation and some people just don't get it.

 

 

I think the mortality rate would need to be considerably higher if there was a chance we would be crippled as a nation/state by death. You could almost argue the case for a speedier recovery from high death rates than from ruination caused by totalitarian government policy.

 

Then again, I could be completely and utterly batshit crazy which is entirely possible! 

 

 

My use of the word 'crippled' was in direct reference to your statement "I'd rather see the minority inconvenienced for a time (myself included) than a state crippled by over governance!" rather than a reference to the actual deaths.

But, in saying that, look at the numbers in Europe. European governments brought in restriction. The people yelled and screamed and protested about it all. So the restrictions were dropped and the numbers have EXPLODED. The people were told. The people didn't listen, civil rights and freedom of liberty and all that and BOOM. Some of these countries are now on a 2nd or 3rd lockdown with death rates in the 10's of thousands.

 

"Then again, I could be completely and utterly batshit crazy which is entirely possible! "

And I think that's true for all of us, including me. We simply do not know. We've never been here before, not in our lifetimes anyway.

So what do we do? Let it run it's natural course and have a U.S infection rate, where the health system is overwhelmed or 'Shut it down'?

 

Merl1n

 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by merl1n

[benn0]

And I hate this "roll over and scratch my belly" mentality which assumes that government is the only way forward and has the good of the people front and foremost in mind.

Different strokes for different folks.

I'm fine with taking responsibility solely for me and mine and with the consequences that may bring. We don't all need nor want a master.

Thats great that you will take responsibility for wearing masks, staying at home within a 25km radius, these rules are enforced in vic for a reason due to the Qanon BS, the extreme right-wing and worse the domestic terrorists radicalized far right that has grown tremendously during this lockdown and its and incredible worry for general community and public safety. Ive mentioned it before but if Dan did not do what he did we would be in the grips of possibly hundreds of daily deaths. I am a regional/border region that has a huge tourism industry as well as a massive horticulture sectoe and we have bore an incredible brunt to our local economy without any cases. Good thing is ive only heard stark liberally aligned people really hounder the damage thats been done but everyone else that has no party allegiance say our area would of been ravaged if it wasnt for the locked down. Currently more people are wanting some relief and believe Dand should start lifting restrictions now to get b business in the city moving again and to help alleviate the stress lockdown residents are feeling as its becomming apparent that presceiptions for medication are being dished out to people under the age of 10.

Ive not heard but i hope people trapped in appartments were able to recieve certain medication, perhaps benzos to help cope with such horrible lockdowns for such a long time.

[Nonannystate]

Thats great that you will take responsibility for wearing masks, staying at home within a 25km radius,

But I don't. If you are worried about your health and the impact that covid could have upon it, then the onus is clearly, and solely on "YOU" to take appropriate steps.

I upon the other hand, am happy to go about the daily grind, business as usual.

[benn0]

Yeah yeah the Labour party is "right wing" ffs now I've heard it all, FFS the liberal party is left these days, the Labor party is far left and the greens are out and out nutter's

 

Do people know anything about modern socialism ?, or do you still live in the fantasy that's its the same as it was 120 + years ago

every labor party PM since WW 2 has been a member of the "Socialist" Fabian society of Australia, fuck they even write most of Gough Whitlam's fucked up policy's

 

Maybe do some research and learn WTF went/goes on in the world

Agreed

Another thing people don't understand about the other side, the not-so-liberal Liberal Party is they dont stand for any such thing as personal liberties and the 'middle class' even the 'quiet Australians' they frequently chuck under the bus.

Just a few examples:

- Meta-data scraping under the guise of battling terrorism

- There was a controversial bill pushed through parliament during the last week of sitting before the last election

- Our local Mussolini, aka P. DUTTON who has the powers to hold suspects under the age of 16 and younger without a parent present, but worse that gives them the power to deny any lawyer request on heresay grounds that such lawyer or lawyers would not keep details of investigation secret.

(P.S this is the MP that was previously a cop, who would pick up young indigenous kids, children, drive them a good few hours into the bush, take their shoes all while slandering them, racist remarks and forcing them to walk back to town) Peter 'Musolini' Dutton was labeled a racist fairly quickly at certain stations he was posted too and other members would leave cans of.dog food on his desk

- And finally, forced uptake of a newly developed vaccine that hasnt gone through appropriate trials to be pushed on to the populace of Australia, essentially making our population the final guinneapig trial for the vaccine, testing it on millions of Australians (I am not an antivaxxer, I am acutely aware due to some members of my family that lived through the horrible diptheria outbreak, polio outbreaks and measles outbreak and have met a person who still is in an iron lung) these modern vaccines have been thoroughly tested and often been in circulation for years so any side affects are all known and can easily be dealt with.

 

On the note of Socialism, I've taken an interest in KAP (Katter Australia Party) he may be a bit down the far end of socialism but some speeches Ive seen in parliament make sense, he advocates a lot about what happened when the free market was applied to wool and other commodities, which fell through the floor, including dairy not long after. Comrade Katter, although often labeled a nutter does put forward some valid arguments from time to time. But in the worlds of Churchill, Full blown socialism is a slippery slope to communism and i feel if katter had his way he could very well drag us down towards the far end

 

PS: When I heard Adam Bandts idea for a publicly owned bank, where all citizens could be shareholders, I thought that could be a fantastic idea, after all banks want to make money, and if individual Australians were to be shareholders that means this bank would responsible to the Australian citizens. Its a ground breaking idea, poasibly laughed out of the Press Club. But i thought the theory was grand

Edited October 22, 2020 by benn0

[Dan J]

just gonna post this here, come at me if its a repost   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OYR0ikBlUw

https://vanessavalentine.bandcamp.com/releases

https://www.instagram.com/van.harlem/