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19 replies to this topic

#11
merl1n

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Hey Elbling0
"Could you get harmful pathogens or sorts if it was a fish or turtle pond though?"
No, because the water has evaporated, then condensed again it contains no pathogens as the pathogens cannot be evaporated. Also by using the 'funnel' to collect the water it minimises other contaminants entering the collection vessel.

"Would it be worth me using it for my fortnightly nutrient dose?"
Again, I'd say 'No'. There is a chart which shows optimum pH levels for nutrient availability
Attached File  pH Levels.jpg   48.13K   2 downloads
You only need one thing out of whack for it to stuff everything up. For pH testing I use a simple single drop test fluid into a test tube. I have used electronic devices before, both of which died and gave false readings without me knowing, hence the single drop tester. As for nute levels there is a number of scales EC= electrical conductivity, PPM=parts per million, mS=milliSiemens per centimetre and CF=Conductivity Factor. Basically they all measure the same thing. Electricity will not pass thru pure water. The more salts in the water, the more electrical current will pass thru it and this is how they measure. I have used a couple of brands of meter but they too have died. I have a truncheon which I have had for years and will only recommend you buy a genuine Truncheon. They work.

Hey Indy,
It ain't just the galv tin roof that can screw with salt levels. Leafs and dirt in your gutters can alter levels. Even bird shit washed off the roof can alter levels. All of these things can have an impact.

Hope it helps
Merl1n
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There's only one way I get my 'greens'

and it ain't by eating them
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survivors too..god bless em
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#12
billygoat

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Love ya posts Merlin. The sort of posts I think about writing, but lose interest too easily !

Hope you are keeping well.
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#13
AuNaturale

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Just a quick aside.  IF anyone is worried, chloramine will not dissipate quickly.  Know that from my fishkeeping days.  4,5 days to dissipate via aeration possibly to a week, or there are bulk products for ponds that will dissipate both chlorine and chloramine.

 

Chloramine is or at least was a common disinfectant in tap water and the advice I keep reading is to leave water standing for a day to allow for chlorine dissipation.  In fact you should actually aerate it unless you treat it even for chlorine alone, let alone chloramine.  Your local council/shire or water authority can tell you if chloramine is used in your tap water.  Assume chlorine in all piped treated systems.

 

I frankly doubt it makes a micron of difference if you use tap water as is, but people in their pot-Bibles keep mentioning that tap water will be chlorine free after 24 hours just from leaving it freestanding (not so), and don't mention chloramine (unlike the OP - smart) whatsoever.


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#14
AuNaturale

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Only Wikipedia but here we go: Chloramines should be removed from water for dialysis, aquariums, hydroponic applications, and homebrewing beer. Chloramines can interfere with dialysis, can hurt aquatic animals, and can give homebrewed beer a medicinal taste by forming chlorophenols. In hydroponic applications, it will stunt the growth of plants.

 

As I thought (haven't looked into it forever) chloramine usage has been on the increase since my aquarium days (early 80's).  Was then but didn't want to shoot my mouth off without checking.

 

The bulk pond stuff is very cheap, a few mls to 8-9 litres of water.  $17 for 1.5L, and we are talking about I think 1-2ml per 10L of tapwater?  Prime I think is the name.  It's made so pond owners with fish can dechlorinate/dechloraminate much larger volumes of water than even large indoor tanks, but is the same stuff (isn't packaging great?).  I don't think I'd be at all concerned for traditional soil growing.

 

Seachem Pond Prime.  500ml bottle will treat 10,000 US gallons of water or 37,854 litres. The 2L is 90-odd but I hadn't realised the dilution was so extreme - but check up on the overall chemistry changes in non-aquatic situations.  It has no effect on aquascaping (extensive plantation of aquarium plants, some of which are stunning visually that people spend weeks on and have trophy competitions), but I'm not going to go further than that.  You can look it up, not my area of expertise.


Edited by K.P., 20 October 2016 - 09:47 PM.

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#15
AuNaturale

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I well, maybe the leaving water out for a day works for chlorinated water only (this wasn't the advice early 80's, you can still find advocates of aeration today)...the real problem IS chloramine.  It's probably close to ubiquitous in use today.  I didn't realise that reverse osmosis got rid of chloramine, but it does.  It's a bugger of a chemical, far more stable than chlorine and more problematic.   Using Seachem Pond Prime or other water conditioners isn't exactly organic - but it's damned easy and I don't know where I'd draw the line.  The one thing I did check on is it is pH neutral so won't affect pH levels.


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#16
Elbling0

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Hey Elbling0
"Could you get harmful pathogens or sorts if it was a fish or turtle pond though?"
No, because the water has evaporated, then condensed again it contains no pathogens as the pathogens cannot be evaporated. Also by using the 'funnel' to collect the water it minimises other contaminants entering the collection vessel.

"Would it be worth me using it for my fortnightly nutrient dose?"
Again, I'd say 'No'. There is a chart which shows optimum pH levels for nutrient availability
attachicon.gifpH Levels.jpg
You only need one thing out of whack for it to stuff everything up. For pH testing I use a simple single drop test fluid into a test tube. I have used electronic devices before, both of which died and gave false readings without me knowing, hence the single drop tester. As for nute levels there is a number of scales EC= electrical conductivity, PPM=parts per million, mS=milliSiemens per centimetre and CF=Conductivity Factor. Basically they all measure the same thing. Electricity will not pass thru pure water. The more salts in the water, the more electrical current will pass thru it and this is how they measure. I have used a couple of brands of meter but they too have died. I have a truncheon which I have had for years and will only recommend you buy a genuine Truncheon. They work.

Hey Indy,
It ain't just the galv tin roof that can screw with salt levels. Leafs and dirt in your gutters can alter levels. Even bird shit washed off the roof can alter levels. All of these things can have an impact.

Hope it helps
Merl1n

Thanks Merlin!!! Bloody awesome info.
I will look into the pond funnel when mines built.
That chat will come in handy too.
I have a TDS and PH digital meter on their way in the mail, but id probably be better off using my aquarium ph testing kit? Especially if theyre going to be inaccurate?
Could you link me to the Truncheon? All I can find google wise is a Medieval batton type thing  :bounce: 
Thanks mate

 

Just a quick aside.  IF anyone is worried, chloramine will not dissipate quickly.  Know that from my fishkeeping days.  4,5 days to dissipate via aeration possibly to a week, or there are bulk products for ponds that will dissipate both chlorine and chloramine.

 

Chloramine is or at least was a common disinfectant in tap water and the advice I keep reading is to leave water standing for a day to allow for chlorine dissipation.  In fact you should actually aerate it unless you treat it even for chlorine alone, let alone chloramine.  Your local council/shire or water authority can tell you if chloramine is used in your tap water.  Assume chlorine in all piped treated systems.

 

I frankly doubt it makes a micron of difference if you use tap water as is, but people in their pot-Bibles keep mentioning that tap water will be chlorine free after 24 hours just from leaving it freestanding (not so), and don't mention chloramine (unlike the OP - smart) whatsoever.

Only Wikipedia but here we go: Chloramines should be removed from water for dialysis, aquariums, hydroponic applications, and homebrewing beer. Chloramines can interfere with dialysis, can hurt aquatic animals, and can give homebrewed beer a medicinal taste by forming chlorophenols. In hydroponic applications, it will stunt the growth of plants.

 

As I thought (haven't looked into it forever) chloramine usage has been on the increase since my aquarium days (early 80's).  Was then but didn't want to shoot my mouth off without checking.

 

The bulk pond stuff is very cheap, a few mls to 8-9 litres of water.  $17 for 1.5L, and we are talking about I think 1-2ml per 10L of tapwater?  Prime I think is the name.  It's made so pond owners with fish can dechlorinate/dechloraminate much larger volumes of water than even large indoor tanks, but is the same stuff (isn't packaging great?).  I don't think I'd be at all concerned for traditional soil growing.

 

Seachem Pond Prime.  500ml bottle will treat 10,000 US gallons of water or 37,854 litres. The 2L is 90-odd but I hadn't realised the dilution was so extreme - but check up on the overall chemistry changes in non-aquatic situations.  It has no effect on aquascaping (extensive plantation of aquarium plants, some of which are stunning visually that people spend weeks on and have trophy competitions), but I'm not going to go further than that.  You can look it up, not my area of expertise.

I well, maybe the leaving water out for a day works for chlorinated water only (this wasn't the advice early 80's, you can still find advocates of aeration today)...the real problem IS chloramine.  It's probably close to ubiquitous in use today.  I didn't realise that reverse osmosis got rid of chloramine, but it does.  It's a bugger of a chemical, far more stable than chlorine and more problematic.   Using Seachem Pond Prime or other water conditioners isn't exactly organic - but it's damned easy and I don't know where I'd draw the line.  The one thing I did check on is it is pH neutral so won't affect pH levels.

Very good point.
Yeah being a fellow aquarist I notice no one taking about Chloramines in tap water.
Would Seachem Prime or another Chlorine, chloramine, nitrate/nitrite ammonia removing compound be okay to put in water to feed our plants?
I was under the impression it had phosphorous in it because of the way it smelt, and from what a few others have told me.
It just says ''Contains Complex Hydrosulfite salts'' on the back.
Its only 4 drops to 9L, not a large quantity but enough to make a difference.
Anyone had any experience within using it?
Would Save me 48-72 hours of time letting water sit  :yahoo:


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#17
Ford Fairlane

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Here is a thread dedicate to the subject Elbing0. https://cannabis.com...n-removal-tips/
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"It is all just general gardening knowledge that applies to a bunch of different plants, if it so happens to work for cannabis too, there is nothing I can do about it"

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#18
Elbling0

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Here is a thread dedicate to the subject Elbing0. https://cannabis.com...n-removal-tips/

Beeautiful! Thanks Mate.  :egyptdance:


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#19
merl1n

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'Could you link me to the Truncheon? All I can find google wise is a Medieval batton type thing'
http://www.ebay.com....lpid=107&chn=ps
It may look medieval, but it works lol unless by medieval you mean this
http://www.ebay.com/...P-/191996775211 lol

Another little bit of advice is by purchasing an all'n'one (both pH and TDS) if one dies, they both die. Also with some pH meters you need a calibration fluid, another additional cost.
Merl1n
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#20
AuNaturale

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Well if you think about it, esp. Seachem Pond Prime - plenty of people grow waterlilies and other soil-rooted aquatic plants in their ponds with koi or whatever fish the pond is stocked with. In fact a pond without nurtured plant life is very rare.

Seachem are a company beyond reproach in the aquarium industry.

I think at the price (one 500ml bottle should last years, $30) if you were to add the required drops per litre it would do far more good than harm, and save the 2-day wait even for mere chlorine.

The two caveats are 1. It's not strictly organic. If you are a dedicated no-compromises organic gardener then you could investigate vitamin C as a dechloriminator. And check with NASAA or BFA re their list of permitted products.

2. Always check with your water authority as they WILL tell you if they use chloramine even if occasional use.

If you're going to bother drawing your water out for two days prior and leaving it freestanding to avoid chlorine - well, chloramine is by far the worst of the two and unless your water authority swears black and blue they don't use chloramine I would be far more concerned about chloramine.

This is all in the context of the advice to use dechlorinated water. Frankly I read a lot of preciousness around what is essentially a hardy weed in it's native environs. Yes, once (in)bred to the nth degree a lot of plants and animals lose the wild vigour and resistance, but still...

I've never dechlorinated/dechloriminated water for the garden ever, fruit and vegetables included despite knowing about the deleterious effects of chlorine and chloramine for aquatic life. It's not practical when using a hose!

Having said that, if one is going to freestand then treat for chloramine. Also in pure hydroponic situations where the natural buffers unavailable to plants (complex soil microenvironments and usually open air and sun) I would treat any water without question. Any scenario where water is a large carrier of plant nutrients combined with artificial lighting and ventilation I would dechlorominate even if using soil as a substrate. 'T'aint nacheral! Poor things get bombed to shit with a million things, I'm sure it would help mightily.

Erm. Having said all this, may I add that considering the nature of the beast, any additional help given that one can't just trot off to a nursery to pick up a punnet of seedlings or a packet of seeds, yes! Why not.

On a hot sunny day and you have no time and a hose gives life, well chloramine whatever.

Pragmatic but true.

Edited by K.P., 22 October 2016 - 03:32 AM.

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