Mortality Question

[brick]

This had me thinking still this morning.

 

As far as heaven and hell are concerned, who goes where? Good people to heaven and evil people to hell I suppose. Who defines good and evil? Does a fisherman who is well adjusted to society and accepted as a good man go to hell for hurting small animals for pleasure, or a politician who imposes an unwanted tax on his people to feed the starving go to hell for stealing? Good and Evil are just a reflection of our current society.

 

If you believe David Hume we are all a result of our genetics and our circumstances so it would be pretty unfair to dish out punishment or rewards on this basis. Maybe we all go to heaven no matter what we have done here on earth. That would be a nice thought unless you are opposed to the notion of sucking on your heavenly bong while Adolf shoots up next to you. We could all go to hell too. Not so bad for the masochists but the rest of us would become pretty irritable I imagine.

 

Apart from superior intelligence, I don't believe there is any difference between human conciousness and that of animals so an afterlife would need to include every creature that ever lived. Imagine the conversation you could have with your tapeworm (unless of course you poisoned him which would make things a bit awkward), or an e-coli cell.

 

My dear old mum says there is no hell. Hell is on earth. She has lived through a lot of shit. Two world wars, depression. Lost her first husband (my dad) when I was two years old, married a prick the second time round. Almost had her taking a toke on my last visit. Maybe next time.

[blackheartedprofit]

for me there is neither heaven nor hell there is just existence and non-existence, the universe did not exist for me before i was born, as far as i am aware and the same will apply after i cease to exist, all i see in any kind of religion is dreams turned to myth, turned to turned to law and religion as our whole political/religion system is intertwined and as we all know religion is not about freedom of anything, it is about control and forced guilt, so for me this thread is totally fucking pointless but i just thought i'd let you all know why this is so.

cheers

[Token Jet]

yeah heaven and hell both I reckon brick.

I went camping on the beach a couple of weeks ago and it felt pretty close to heaven.

[RobbieGanjaSeed]

I agree with BentBuddha..tenatively..I mean no two people on earth could truly share identical beliefs, and that's important for us to grasp to even move spiritually. Surely no 2 people on earth, even if they subscribe to the same name as their "religion" be perfectly aligned. Things I have faith in are one matter, things I believe in are another.

 

I have certain "faiths", but what I believe can only be determined by what information I have at hand at this time, in the histroy of my life to this point, having understood only so much of what I have already ecountered. These, unlike my faith, is subject to change.

 

But I agree 100% imo that all of life's eternitys are present with us right here, right now. That with the same hand, in this day, month, years, sitting here at this computer, i can reach back in time to the earliest of creation, and into the furture.

 

Hell even Einstein said something similar. But I believe we can also reach out an arm, and touch God on the chest. That the garden of Eden (as BB) said, is right here ...now.

 

I think that how much we can see into these things is very limited now, but opens when we die. maybe not even all the way then, who knows what beyond even that?

Who could say what depths some can look into it now? (and who are cons?)

 

Most people have heard of Jesus ascending into heaven. But I don;t believe that's an indication He went to mars, or anywhere else physical. That "up" was simply a methaphor for the spiritual path we take as we go from one level of where we are, forward as we get closer to perfection in Spirit. It's also how I see heaven, as BB said, all around us, as He va,ished nto space, not went to a physical place and sat on a chair in another planet or such. In another diemsion we have everyone that ever died, been created etc...

 

Hell, or heaven, I think are self imposed spiritual choices we make now. That is in the classic use of the term Hell. Simply a place without God (used in the spiritual sense as opposed to the physical concept of the term) I think our spirits make choices of what they want, and esentially get what they are seeking. Some say they have no spiritual beliefs or desire, and that's what they get, and can't be sad for it, because that's what they sought. I think that to seek spiritual enlightenment is to get it. On the spot, there and then. It has at the very least-begun... And the level of dedication results in differing levels of reward....

 

peace

rob

 

PS. I'm pretty stoned right now, so I hope I didn't say anything out of place ok? :0

 

peace

 

PPS To be politically correct, I just thought of another example, of a spiritual movemnt into heaven . The Muslim prophet who ascended to heaven to visit with allah. I can't imagine he travelled anywhere, yet he claims to have done just that, so how unless except he just moved through a portal into another dimension. And if into another dimension, then why not exactly where he was, right on the spot? Why go somewhere else, to move into anther dimension?

[Token Jet]

But I agree 100% imo that all of life's eternitys are present with us right here, right now. That with the same hand, in this day, month, years, sitting here at this computer, i can reach back in time to the earliest of creation, and into the furture.

 

I enjoyed the read once again robbie but i'm a bit bamboozled. Can you tell me what you mean by this bit about reaching into the past? Maybe I'm taking it a bit too literally.

[blackheartedprofit]

before you start portraying fairy stories as actual events rgs, you should at least have some shreds of evidence, but as you're shredless then that's how they stay, fairy stories, you seem to like to put your own version of the bible forward quite a bit, did you write one or something?, till next time, adiablos

[RobbieGanjaSeed]

Hey there token jet, I'd love to write more, and explain myslef better, but after even a long time making the post I did, trying with all effort to remain neutral in what I said, to express my agreement with bentbuddha, I still have this fucking annoying little toad shaddowing me, insulting me at every sylabil.

Interestingly, people have Pmed me and said the same As I think, and that blackhearted wanker "doth protest too much" and has a lot of inner conflict, which he projects onto me. Something to do withhis childhood bad experiences with his father molesting him at church or something and projecting it onto me?

 

I'll try and make a general sumary,and ,leave it at that, because no matter if I siad the most benign statement, blackheartedwanker will do his best to enflame me for no reason. I mean all I did was agree with bentbuddha, but it's me he attacks. the fool.

 

Anyway token jet, the idea that time isn't a fixed construct is simple enough and explained bu Einstein (sorry there's some evidence for you black wank), and as a leap from science to "spirit", I took the principle of time being maliable and in more dimensions than one (although known as the 4th dimension, it's present in it's influuence in the last 6 dimesnions I think).

 

So there's this story of Jesus ascending to heaven (it's in the ordinary bible blackhearted wanker), but I wasn't making a christian point, it was simply a well known example of a story, which backs up what bentbuddha had already said. Not even "backs up", but simply as being a well known story, is a handy illustration of what may take place. It was just an illustration to amplify that if he went to heaven, and isnt with us physically, then he could well be standing next to you, and still be in heaven. as I also included a reference to a similar event the Koran , a muslim holy book describes similar when their prophet Muhhumad ascended to see Allah (God); I thought even childish black tosser would leave it all alone. but no, he's got dick in hand, and ready to go.. Surely one can't be more even handed than that? I dont know why this fuckin idiot has to be so volatile.

 

Now, regardless of religion, using these illustrations to examplify nothing more than an personal opinion of what may take place-

 

Bentbuddha said he believed that to be in the spirit is to be simply in another dimension, and that the garden of eden is right here, right now..

 

I agreed with bent buddha, and using the two instances FAMOUSLY known (originally to save time in explanation due to their familiarity) simply posed the possability of our spirit being uncontained by place, or time..That we are in heaven, hell, the past, the future...only we're contained in this carnal place due to being totally carnal still.

 

As for the literal ability to reach into the past or present, i think is valid and varriable. Some con artists, religous or otherwise claim to enter states of another dimesion and communicate with people, learn unforseen events etc.. They dont go anywhere, they enter another realm.

So they can travel back, or forward, communicate with God, or as some claim, dead humans.. I think when we die, this is transitional, and we enter another dimension, not go to another place per sae. (gee blackhead, even Jimmy Morrison believed this stuff).

 

How much we can enter this presently depends on the level of comittment I believe in which we pursue it; biut will always be limited by our present mortality. I tried so hard to make it clear that this was simply my belief, that I intended to injure no-one, and even use Koranical teachings to be politically correct, in an absolutely vain hope to express omething without being attacked as presenting a religous "christian" perspective. That the stories of Jesus' experience, and that of Muhhamad were prime examples to use is all.

 

I'm sorry mate, I wish I could explain better but I'm just too distracted wondering what attack I'll cop already, no matter what I go to say, I know the fuckwitt blackhearted wanker will be on my case. Bentbuddha said a very similar thing, indeed, I simply agreed withhim. perhaps you should ask him to explain, as blackhearted wanker might be too afraid to tangle with him? he sure gives me a pain like a burning rock in my bowel.

 

Token jet, i'd love to really express myself beter, but no matter what I write, i can tell what blackhead will respond obnoxiously.

rob

 

ps. Blackhead- you don't have a fuckin clue how to get along do you , yo u fucking germ?

I mean you object strenuously that religion is some structure to control the minds of people. That it's some evil to make us all drones. And then I express my own views on something spiritual, and you start insulting me for not believeing the mainstream "christian" teaching. Ranting on that I should adhere to sme view others have.

 

see a shrink. I think you're basically a confused person is all.

[theFATMAN]

You either go up or down, and I'm just glad the Big Guy is impartial when making decisions.

[blackheartedprofit]

hi robbie,

have your heart palpitations stopped yet?, have you stopped frothing at the mouth ?, have your eyes stopped bulging ?, , you're one crazy mofo, all i did was make an observation on your post, it was quite rational in fact, rational is a word you should look up in the dictionary, it may be of some help, although for some there is no help, stop acting like a child that has had it's sweet taken off it, grow up dude, we don't see eye to eye that is as it may be, but any more personal attacks like that and i will respond in kind,

later,

the blackhearted one, lmao

[Token Jet]

All right, Thanks for the passionate responses guys. I guess this one is always going to be controversial.