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[pipeman]

As much as I dislike Bush, I absolutley despise Hussein

I agree, and IMO bush's actions, at least on the surface, seem to have decent motives backing them up

not really, actually not at all. there is nothing decent about Bush's motives. It was a shameless grab for money and oil, as well as protecting the interests of major financial supporters of the Republican Party who in this case are industrial companies who profit greatly by feeding the war effort and the rebuilding of Iraq. Not to mention the fact that the whole premise of the invasion (weapons of mass destruction and a supposed military threat) has been proved as bullshit. The side issue of toppling Saddam's regime is good publicity, but really had nothing to do with the decision to invade. I could go on. The politics of the "great" USA is so putrid I feel like throwing up every time I think about it.

[syk613]

at least on the surface, seem to have decent motives

Bush goes to war for dodgy reasons I agree, he is like a slick used car salesman, but his malicious acts don't compare to saddam's imo, the iran/iraq war took millions of lives. The yanks were backing both sides at different times, so I agree the yanks frequently fuck up the world but usually they do it to protect the interests of their nation, and anything else is secondary, while saddam was a self styled Stalin and his actions are generally aimed at more power and/ security for his regime. When he came to power he purged the party and the country of all the ppl that had defied him or were a risk to his newly aquire power

[pipeman]

Saddam's evil was on a personal and much more obvious level. He and his sons murdered and raped their own people in every sense of the word. Bush however, or moreso the US political machine as Bush is merely a puppet, have a much wider and more sinister influence over the rest of the world. The US government systematically opress their own people, have circumvented democracy, operate in the interests of the wealthy elite, not their nation or their people and punish either militarily or economically anyone who does not fall into line. The US people need a regime change just as much as the Iraqi people, they are just too dosile to realise it. The Bush administration have given them some useful villains to focus their anger and frustrations on though. Saddam, Bin Laden, the war on terror, bullshit bullshit bullshit.... welcome to 1984.

[Luke Skywalker]

Who do you think gave saddam the weapons in the first place? And the biological agents required? And who ignored these attacks on the kurds with said weapons at the time, and for a decade afterwards? You're right, the U.S. of A.... If you want to blame someone for Saddam blame Bush's daddy, his former boss... (Reagan) and the current administration, (most of them served with bush sr. and reagan too) as they're the ones who installed and supported his rise to power and gave him the weapons and technology which he then turned upon the Kurds... :angry:

 

I am not saying that Saddam is a nice man, I never have and never will, but if you think that the U.S. is a great friend of Iraqi's and Kurds by doing so you'd be sorely mistaken. They could give a rats arse about the people of Iraq, which is stunningly shown in the U.S. governments refusal to so much as count the civilian deaths caused by their weapons. (It's around 10,000 at a conservative count.... that's CIVILIANS, not military or para-military deaths, or wounded either.) How can you know if you're avoiding civilian casualties IF YOU DON'T COUNT THEM They use cluster bombs in residential areas... (5 -10 % of the individual bomblets within a single cluster bomb will not explode on impact. They're left there for kids to pick up, play with a blow their faces off.) :angry: and they've decided that the best way to reconstruct Iraq would be to sell of EVERY SINGLE PUBLIC ASSET (Bar the oil industry... gee, what a surprise there...) TO PRIVATE CORPORATIONS... Most of these are chaired or owned by good buddies of George W. too, which makes it even more evil, if that's possible...

 

Saddam needs a fair trial, not because he didn't do it, but because justice should not just be done, it must be seen to be done. If a fair trial held with international jurists, or even in the Hauge, (the latter in all likelihood won't happen as the U.S. refuses to sign up to the international criminal court, as it may end up prosecuting the commander in cheif and his cronies in the cabinet for the war crimes they've commited recently in afghanistan and iraq, not to mention just about everywhere else in the world too.... Kidnapping and imprisonment without trial is a crime, torture is a crime, even if the people you kidnap and torture are what they like to call "terrorists") can't convict Saddam Hussein and his lackies of War Crimes then he's being prosecuted by a fucking moron. Much as I'd like to see the Iraqi people tear that bastard apart limb from limb, that's not the way we do it, because we are CIVILISED! The Geneva Convention isn't just something you can sweep away and forget when you like it, it applies to all sides.

 

Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld are bringing the world closer and closer to Orwell's 1984 every day, and are hell bent on making themselves and their friends rich and more powerful as fast as is possible, screw the consequences to the rest of the planet and it's people.... If you were to compare the relative crimes of the bush (both sr. and jr.) dictatorships to the hussein dictatorship, (and installing the hussein dictatorship is one of these crimes), I think you'd be shocked at who's ordered or been directly responsible for more deaths/injuries/disasters.....

 

Who's more evil, the dictator or the guy who put that dictator into power, gave him biological and chemical weapons, and supported monetarily, diplomatically and militarily that same dictator? I know what I think.

 

p.s. I've just spent a couple days reading the latest mike moore book, so you may have to excuse my anger on this issue. I'd recommend anyone to read "Stupid White Men" and "Dude, where's my country?" if you'd like to find out just the tiniest bit about how evil the Bush administration is...

 

p.p.s. All this rant is IMHO, and not intended as a direct insult to anyone. Well, aside from Bush and his bastards anyway.

[syk613]

Saddam's evil was on a personal and much more obvious level.  He and his sons murdered and raped their own people in every sense of the word.  Bush however, or moreso the US political machine as Bush is merely a puppet, have a much wider and more sinister influence over the rest of the world.  The US government systematically opress their own people, have circumvented democracy, operate in the interests of the wealthy elite, not their nation or their people and punish either militarily or economically anyone who does not fall into line.  The US people need a regime change just as much as the Iraqi people, they are just too dosile to realise it.  The Bush administration have given them some useful villains to focus their anger and frustrations on though.  Saddam, Bin Laden, the war on terror, bullshit bullshit bullshit....  welcome to 1984.

Eisenhower talked about the military-industrial complex and the power it wields, I agree the players behind the scenes are dangerous and are probably responsible for JFK and MLK assassinations, Vietnam, Cambodia and this is just the beginning, but Bush and the other GOP members can't do anything that is unpopular or they can be voted out, as for the last 2 years the fear generated by 911 has given Bush a blank cheque to do whatever he wants under the guise of national security, on the 9-10-01 a war to topple the Taliban and Saddam would have been unthinkable.

[Luke Skywalker]

but Bush and the other GOP members can't do anything that is unpopular or they can be voted out, as for the last 2 years the fear generated by 911 has given Bush a blank cheque to do whatever he wants under the guise of national security, on the 9-10-01 a war to topple the Taliban and Saddam would have been unthinkable.

 

No, they just need a Supreme court which is stacked in their favour. They lost the vote and still won. And yeah, 9-11 is the excuse for everything they've done recently, Saddam had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the attacks on the trade towers, and they know it. :angry:

 

You have some very curious view of American "Democracy" there syk.

[syk613]

well yeah and with arnie and jeb they have a lock on the two big democrat states, well actually no they won the vote, of college electorial votes which is the system and counting each person for and against is frought with danger and would have been disasterous if it had been the way they did it in 2000, because the difference was so small a recount of ALL the votes would have been needed, and the US would have been without a leader for a lot longer, If Nader hadn't of interefered Gore would have won, if Gore had a personality he would have won, in the end it came down to Fox (pro bush) jumping the gun, voter registration rigging in FA and bad luck

 

The ppl in the US are pissed, you can't blame them for wanting blood and and Bush is now able to react to this, in the end opinion polls drive the politicians and their policies, just like any other market research.

[Gaytimegrower]

 

Dont you think it is time to close this thread? It is getting as long as Cheech#,s was in the "Bitchin Room".

 

If we are going to have a thread of politics, lets have one about religion and really fill the screen up.

 

Better still why dont we just get back to the reason for this site?

 

"GROWING POT"

 

Any offence to anyone is not intentional.

 

p.s. They still havn't found those mysterious superman inspired "Weapons of mass destruction" that this war was supposed to be about. I am outta here' see you back in "normalville"

[syk613]

Better still why dont we just get back to the reason for this site?

 

"GROWING POT"[/quote

 

Sorry mate I can not add much to that conversation, you got ask youself how the F did I get 400 posts then?

[pipeman]

well actually no they won the vote, of college electorial votes which is the system

 

actually they lost the vote. Bush lost Florida, but thanks to his cronies, the rigged counting procedure and the fact that blacks were intimidated by local police to stay away on voting day AND scores of them were mysteriously struck off as eligable voters and finally a little wink and nod from the Supreme Court he was able to overcome that little inconvenience.

 

fuck Democracy. thats for saps.

 

Its easy to scoff at conspiracy theories, but the evidence that Bush stole the Presidency is really quite strong. If you want to learn more, do some reading at www.michaelmoore.com