Cannabis VS. Reaction-Time / Decision-Making.

[Budman2012]

Hello to everyone,

This morning I was reading and noticed yet another claim about Cannabis effecting driving. I woke up early today and for unknown reasons seem to have the writing bug and have written a few "opinion" peices that started as just trying to list a few ideas [in Notepad.exe] and turned into a larger than expected "spew" of thought. (my apologies for the Notepad conversion)

I thought I might as well share it here , so here is what I wrote ...

 

Note: I realize there is is already a Topic 'pinned' here about Dope and Driving - Link. It's closely related and worth a read too

... I've edited only the first line and spacing of this somewhat akward peice and even though it could do with a more thorough polish ...

O.k. And now for the subject of "Cannabis and Driving" ... or "Cannabis and Reaction-time/decision making"

So we read about how Cannabis reduces reaction time and our ablity to make decisions.

Where exactly is the evidence for this and how were the experiments conducted?

This is why I think It's bullshit ...

 

While I agree somewhat that cannabis CAN effect (possibly even hinder) decision making

skills , this is usually regarding trivial matters that non-intoxicated people may be

inclined to experience also. For example , lets take choosing a movie or maybe a meal at a

good restaraunt. Simple things like this can effect ANYONE and are hardly harmful at all so

if indeed Cannabis enhances this sort of thing it is virtually meaningless.

 

Let's say it's not so trivial a matter , something quite serious.

For example , A house is ablaze and there is someone screaming for help inside ... there's

a good chance you would be killed entering the blaze at this this time but there could be a

small chance you could save a life ... it has to be an almost instant reaction and no doubt

most people would preserve their own life by not taking such a massive risk but a rare few

might decide it's worth it and rush on in. Neither approach could be said to be "wrong" ,

the ones who preserved their lives are very sensible and the persons who will do anything

they possibly can to save another regardless of the consequences to their own well-being

could well be called "hero's" whether they live or not. To me , this involves as much a

"reaction time" skill as it does a "decision making" skill and different people will react

differently no matter what chemicals may be in their system. This particular example shows

without having to go into detail that there is no correct option in certain cases of

importance regarding these skillsets in question.

 

Now , Driving is similar in that in a serious situation where these skills are needed most

, like an accident caused by an external happening or fault of the driver , say a child

runs out in front of the car ... a "good" driver may avoid what a "bad" or less experienced

driver may not be able to ... then there are the countless other factors like what type

and condition of vehicle , how tired a driver might be , how old , blind , deaf etc. and

yes of course what chemicals may be in the system including "drugs" both legal and illegal.

Again , there are so many different factors involved in WHY people have road accidents and

so many different and varied people on the roads with different symptoms ... I would

suggest it's impossible to say there could ever be any definitive research results on the

matter.

 

So what I was meaning to say is that I think that Cannabis CAN effect these skillsets in

certain individuals but that 1) Non-intoxicated People can suffer the same results and 2)

There is way to much complexity involved in the Biological and Psychological make-up of

different humans to be able to single out any one factor involved let alone considering the

laws of chaos that seem to effect disaster (and sometimes luck) so often.

Also I wanted to show that "Reaction Time" and "Decision making" in the case of

near-instant reflex scenarios like driving are basically the same thing. More precisely ,

they are both a part of the same reactionary process.

Decision making like , "hmmm , should I go left or right" or "drive to the movies or the

beach" surely is not really applicable when we are talking about road safety and reducing

dangers thereof. So I think that is not an issue.

 

Now , Onto reaction time being effected by Cannabis. No doubt this is true in certain

cases. Disregarding what I've mentioned about the seemingly infinite differences among all

humans there are other things that COULD easily decrease your reaction time.

I'm thinking that the most obvious factor involved would be the question : How Stoned? and

what strain of Cannabis is it? ... to put it simply.

It is possible with the right materials to get extremely intoxicated from cannabis ,

especially if you are novice or "rare" consumer of the substance. Potentially you can

almost go into a virtually "comatose" state at the extreme end of the spectrum ... Not only

would you NOT even consider driving in a state like that , It's unlikly one could even

stand up under their own power. Therefore it would be ridiculous to say that that is a

problem. The same could basically be said , going down the scale , about nearly everyone

who is heavily "stoned" ... It's simply not a done thing for Cannabis users to want to do

anything like "drive" or "operate heavy machinery" when they are in such a state. Such a

state in no way encourages the individual to want to attempt to do things like that. There

are a rare few people who like to partake and play hectic sports or work-out and such ,

there's no doubt about that but they are not in such a state because 1) they are not overly

intoxicated on the substance and/or 2) they are used to doing it and a type of "tolerance"

is involved.

So , now we get down to the other end of the spectrum ... mildly or partially "stoned".

A state of mind and body that could well allow for someone to (easily) engage in activities

like driving a motor vehicle. While there are these studies with claims about reaction-time

there are as many (often the same ones) claiming that people under the influence of

Cannabis are MORE LIKELY to : Drive at a lesser speed than normal and concentrate more - as

they are aware of their state and "drive to suit conditions" so to speak.

Aside from that though ... I want to write a little bit more about examples for why I think that

Cannabis DOES NOT NECESSARILY effect reaction time.

 

GAMES:

There are vast amounts of Cannabis consumers in the world ... many of these stoners (in

"modern" countries have Computers ... many are under 30 ... a great number of younger

Cannabis consumers have enjoyed playing Computer games. Maybe It would be better worded if

I reversed it "Many people who have enjoyed playing Computer games have been stoned"

Continuing on , Many (in fact , a majority) of these games require high speed

"reaction-time" skills ... a good portion of which involve similar reflexes as are used in

an emergency situation such as a car accident. I'm not sure there's been a study done on it

... but I can assure people that some of most elite players of these games indulge in

Cannabis and have almost impossibly sharp reflexes and reaction times. How could this be ,

if the simple statement of "Cannabis reduces reaction time" is true? ...

 

MUSIC:

Musicians ... Many musicians partake of Cannabis (and many other drugs too) , there are

some very famous examples of some of them that don't even need mentioning but the list

could easily fill this page as most people would know. Playing music requires intense

concentration , decision making and reaction time skills converted into actions , often at

high-speed. Speed and Thrash Metal bands push this to the extreme in a beats per-minute

case but much of modern music requires high-speed for complex arrangements and is equally

as difficult to play. If by chance your lacking an example of a famous cannabis-smoking

musician who pushed the limits of the time might I suggest you look up Jimi hendrix as an

excellent example , one that cannot be disputed. (o.k. fine , dispute it then )

I'm not sure if it's been done , but maybe more studies into the brain , while high and

playing music , is needed.

Musicians have been quoted as saying such things as "It helps me with the creative process

, writing songs , get's me where I want to be , MOTIVATES me , get in the zone" etc etc

etc. As I see it , this is another related example of Cannabis NOT hindering reaction time

as so many talented musicians are living proof.

 

PERSONAL:

My own personal example is akin to an experiment but only involves myself directly.

I very much enjoy playing Table-Tennis and I'm not too bad really considering I don't get

to play all that often. A couple of years ago though I was playing a few nights a week and

got right into it. I've played it "straight" , "stoned" , "tipsy" and all combinations of

the 3 if that's possible . Usually I'd start relatively straight , maybe with a beer or

2 under the belt. It always take a few rallies to "get your eye in" so to speak (at least

it does for me) and then once in the zone , game on! ... after a game or few I would often

retreat for a quick "smoke" and return awaiting the next game. I wouldn't get completely

"wasted" but I could certainly feel the desired effects.

Did I return and play even better? ... Well , no ... not for the first 15 minutes or so ...

 

I would make some good shots , and the reflexes were fine ... would just make a few more

"misjudgements" than usual , relating to the angular momentum , depth perception and the

like that is required to play the game well. It was very much like , trying to "get your

eye in" all over again with a slightly altered perspective. After about 15 minutes or so ,

the senses seemed to calibrate and It was evident to myself and my fellow "competitors"

that indeed the pace and complexity (and excitement) of the game had increased.

I know this is just more anectdotal evidence but I thought it a worthy example anyhow.

I have enjoyed much fast-paced computer games AND music as well over the years. I have also

been in motor vehicles with many different people who have been "under the influence" of

Cannabis , many times , and have never seen any problem evident whatsoever. It is a whole

different story when it comes to alcohol ... that is best left to a whole different story.

 

 

There are many other examples of Cannabis not hindering reaction times , things like

Skateboarding and BMX , Martial arts (Bruce Lee anyone?), acrobatics and Circus-style

entertainment are all things I'm familiar with but I think I've gone some way to making my

point already and I'll finish up now.

 

In no way am I suggesting that people SHOULD drive when they are "stoned" , probably it is

more wize not to , considering that the road can be a dangerous place at the best of times.

I just want to see some evidence that shows Cannabis reduces reaction-time , as while I'm

typing this at a much faster rate than before I had a smoke and given all the examples that

seem to show otherwize , I simply don't agree.

 

(This has taken me roughly an hour to type , I tried to word myself well but I think It

might be noticable that I've consumed 3 beers and a small Cannabis bud during the process.

If memory serves me correctly (and it usually does ) I actually started writing this in

[Notepad.exe] just to see if I could "come up with" any ideas on the subject , it seems

that i have , although whether they are any good is up to the reader no doubt)

 

So there you have it. Please do share your thoughts , ideas and/or constructive criticism ... if indeed you could bring yourself to read it all

Happy Silly Season to ya'll and stay safe

Eat , Drink ... and be Merry!

Cheerz,

 

Budman

[jimbojones5678]

Jeseus! What a read!

 

You must have writers cramp dude..

 

Jimbo

[bufo marinus]

I had a look and decided to wait for the movie. It'd make a great mini series Budman

[Cheeba-Cheeba]

My "brain age" training on the DS turns out better on weed...

[brick]

I can drive stoned ok I can surf stoned ok. I play tennis three times a week and cannot play properly after a joint. My brain tells my feet to move but it is always after the ball has passed me.

Driving at a lower than alowed speed limit, gives me more time (in split seconds) to make a decision on what is happening or going to happen, surfing involves no one else so whatever time it takes to turn or whatever is irrelevant. I can't drive properly pissed, I can't surf pissed, forget tennis pissed!! So for me individual thought process is definately slower but I will be doing things slower any way.

Nice read bud thanks

[sparkler]

Very interesting read That would of taken me well over an hour to write stoned or straight hahaha so well done

 

My opinion on the subject will probably make me a little unpopular but I don't care...I know people who've had accidents (some severe) because they've driven tired, driven drunk or driven stoned. I'm a bit of a "nazi" when it comes to driving after ingesting any substances. Personally I think nobody should be allowed to drive after ANY amount of alcohol (f**k this 0.5 limit or 2 drinks maximum shit) and my opinion is the same for weed, I personally don't think anyone should drive unless they're 100% straight and sober...no matter how they "feel". The mother who suffers the loss of a child simply because someone "felt" ok enough to drive really isn't gonna accept that as an excuse I don't think anyone should drive after too many coffees or red bulls either but again, that's just me

 

If I had my way the laws on driving would be a lot stricter...and anyone caught doing the wrong thing (ie speeding, tailgating, not following the road rules for ANY reason, driving while under the influence of ANY mindaltering substance whether it's legal or not) would simply have their license torn up if caught in the act and they'd be forced to use their legs or public transport...which they should of been doing in the first place. Sorry for the rant but it's a subject I feel very strongly about.

 

Peace

[Cheeba-Cheeba]

I can play the hell out of videogames stoned...sometimes...like, sometimes I turn them off because I can't get into them, but when I do it's locked down pretty well, like I'm inside the game...reaction time feels almost autonomous.

[Budman2012]

I had a look and decided to wait for the movie. It'd make a great mini series Budman

It's not THAT long ffs (if it was in the proper format it is only half that long) ... heheheh

 

Thanks for the comments everyone ... It was , as I stated , just a spew of thought after reading something that triggered it ... not meant to be concise summary of the subject or anything like that It was a strange day , for no apparent reason I just had the urge to write stuff ... 3 or 4 peices similar in length to this one , I can't remember what they were now to be honest ... There is one other I might put up if it's not too stupid-like on a re-read. Well ... good times aye heheheh.

 

Very interesting about the "brain age" Cheeba ... I have the first one and played it for a few months straight but haven't in months now (is it worth it reward-wize , or anything I'm missing maybe? ... just got tedious after a while although I still have all the hard sudoku puzzles for next time I go Bush ) I also tested a bit with and without pot ... the best I ever figured out is that I absolutely sucked if I played first thing in the morning ... makes sense as It takes ages for me to "wake-up" these days.

 

Games as whole is a very interesting factor ... it seems to defy the cannabis related concept of reflex control AND de-motivation yet brain-scans will show that many of these games are highlighted in the brain as performing complex tasks and spur of the moment decision making. Well , I'm sure there can be more discussion on that topic ... maybe Table Tennis and Musical Arrangements and Video Games all need their own Topic in relation to skills while stoned ... hmmm , Skills While Stoned , that's a good one and it gets mentioned all the time throughout other subjects ... if only briefly touched apon.

 

Anyhoo , the last few sentences define the art of rambling I suppose. Heheh

 

To Brick,

Cool to hear ya play tennis man ... if you can imagine , the generation I grew up with didn't have many tennis fans ... not sure exactly why but I never got much practice on the courts ... just a few hits over the years ... so therefore I really suck at Tennis (so far there's always time for a new hobby) ... I enjoyed most raquet games though ... Table Tennis and Badminton being the primary ones and used to be almost a tradition in the family for a while there (what happened to most people man??? geez) ... ahem....

 

I'm looking forward to Australian Open again ... first time on digital so I'll be able to see the damn ball )

Interesting to hear how the good herb effects your playing too , tennis is a whole different ball game to T.T. and even though Table tennis can be just as energetic and possibly faster at times ... the energies are concentrated in a smaller area and your trajectory and target aqquisition is more easily sought. If that makes sense So I wonder about the different physicalities of the sport VS. the actual reflex and decision making skills. Something to ponder on ... or maybe even a good reason to take up Tennis as an experiment heheh.

 

I totally agree about the alcohol equation ...

Great reply sparkler and I think I will get my head together (or just have another pipe ) before I have another think and reply in a new post. This is probably "too long" already ... nah.

 

As a final thought ... I really like what you said there Cheeba ... It certainly does feel quite "autonomous" at times. Well put

 

Cheerz all and don't be shy with those thoughts now <- Autonomous Reflex.

Peace.

 

Budman

[drifter54]

Hektoss!

[420 HELI]

As a long time on-line gamer i can guarantee smoking weed increases my reaction time, accuracy and concentration.

 

Smoke performance enhancing drugs i say! Frag some noob norms today!