Unhealthy plants...

[jondgls]

Hello everyone. Really need some advice here because I can not get my plants looking healthy.

I have encountered a few problems which I feel I have dealt with appropriately but still I am

struggling.

 

The plants are Greenhouse Great White Shark. 17 of the 18 seeds germinated and 15 strong

seedlings survived. The seeds were germinated in 1", pH adjusted Rockwool cubes.

 

Up until a week ago the seedlings remained in a propagation tray where I would water them by

hand at 7am, 6pm and midnight but it got to the point where I could not water them enough by

hand so I placed them into my hydroponics system.

 

The system is a drip irrigation recirculating system with clay pellets. I am using 2x 600W HPS

lights on a 18/6 cycle. The nutrients used are Canna A & B, Cannazym and Canna Rhyzotonic. I

gradually increased the nutrients while the seedlings where in the propagation tray and when

they were placed in the hydro system I used only 50% of the recommended level and the EC

reading was 1.0.

 

Within a day or two from starting the hydro system the EC increased from 1.0 to 2.2 due to

water being used by the plants more than the nutes and evaporation. I did not account for this

happening and the plants suffered from some nutrient burn. I removed a large quantity of the

nutrient solution @ 2.2 EC and replaced it with plain pH balanced water so the EC droped to

0.9. I also flushed each pot with clean pH adjusted water to help the roots recover. The EC

has now risen again to 1.4 EC over the past 3 days.

 

Furthermore the pH levels of the nutrient solution are VERY hard to control because there is

always some solution sitting at the bottom of each pot which heats up during non-watering

periods and then recirculates back into the res. The pH will always rise to the mid 6.5 range

no matter how many times I drop the pH down to mid 5.5 range.

 

The watering times for the system started as 15 mins every 3 hours during light periods. After

I fixed the nutrient problem the plants seem to do better but they were droopy and the leaves

were drying out indicating they needed more water so I adjusted the watering times to 30 mins

every 2 hours during light periods.

 

Currently the lights are ~50cm above the top of the plants. The leaves are curling, droopy, rough, dry and bumpy in texture.

 

My thoughts on possible problems:

1. Certain nutrients from the solution may have been used quicker than others and are now

missing/too low.

2. pH is too high.

3. Watering too much.

4. Watering too little.

 

I would really appreciate some advice and opinions based on the photos I have attached. I really

just want the plants looking healthy. Feel free to ask any questions.

 

Find specs of my setup here.

 

Regards,

JonDgls

[yields]

Hello everyone. Really need some advice here because I can not get my plants looking healthy.

I have encountered a few problems which I feel I have dealt with appropriately but still I am

struggling.

 

The plants are Greenhouse Great White Shark. 17 of the 18 seeds germinated and 15 strong

seedlings survived. The seeds were germinated in 1", pH adjusted Rockwool cubes.

 

Up until a week ago the seedlings remained in a propagation tray where I would water them by

hand at 7am, 6pm and midnight but it got to the point where I could not water them enough by

hand so I placed them into my hydroponics system.

 

The system is a drip irrigation recirculating system with clay pellets. I am using 2x 600W HPS

lights on a 18/6 cycle. The nutrients used are Canna A & B, Cannazym and Canna Rhyzotonic. I

gradually increased the nutrients while the seedlings where in the propagation tray and when

they were placed in the hydro system I used only 50% of the recommended level and the EC

reading was 1.0.

 

Within a day or two from starting the hydro system the EC increased from 1.0 to 2.2 due to

water being used by the plants more than the nutes and evaporation. I did not account for this

happening and the plants suffered from some nutrient burn. I removed a large quantity of the

nutrient solution @ 2.2 EC and replaced it with plain pH balanced water so the EC droped to

0.9. I also flushed each pot with clean pH adjusted water to help the roots recover. The EC

has now risen again to 1.4 EC over the past 3 days.

 

Furthermore the pH levels of the nutrient solution are VERY hard to control because there is

always some solution sitting at the bottom of each pot which heats up during non-watering

periods and then recirculates back into the res. The pH will always rise to the mid 6.5 range

no matter how many times I drop the pH down to mid 5.5 range.

 

The watering times for the system started as 15 mins every 3 hours during light periods. After

I fixed the nutrient problem the plants seem to do better but they were droopy and the leaves

were drying out indicating they needed more water so I adjusted the watering times to 30 mins

every 2 hours during light periods.

 

Currently the lights are ~50cm above the top of the plants. The leaves are curling, droopy, rough, dry and bumpy in texture.

 

My thoughts on possible problems:

1. Certain nutrients from the solution may have been used quicker than others and are now

missing/too low.

2. pH is too high.

3. Watering too much.

4. Watering too little.

 

I would really appreciate some advice and opinions based on the photos I have attached. I really

just want the plants looking healthy. Feel free to ask any questions.

 

Find specs of my setup here.

 

Regards,

JonDgls

 

Hi, jondls

1. Are the clay balls recycled/old, u should have cleaned them and let them soak in PH balanced water? If they were new they also need a good flush out, and a soaking in PH'ed water. If thats the case dump the water and give them PH'ed water for 24hrs dump. (Repeat if needed)

 

2. What are your water temps like? Certain nutrients become un-available/available at different temps.

 

3. Are u chasing your PH? It could explain the tip burn and the rising EC perhaps!?!?

 

4. I dont like using any enzyme (cannazym) type products on seedlings, or any other additives as general rule until the roots hit the bottom bucket, and or about 2-3 weeks into veg.

 

5. Whats your feed/watering schedule look like?

 

 

Its all just a process of elimination!

Edited June 5, 2009 by yields

[Wrangler556]

I had young plants that looked very similar to yours during my first grow last year.

 

Being new to growing, I was always checking on them, adjusting things constantly, trying to get everything dialed in perfect.

 

It can take up to a week for things to improve, but if you then change something again before it has a chance to work, you cold just keep going around in circles.

 

My core problems, which look very similar to yours were: overwatering, light to close, and windburn from having a fan on to strong/to close.

 

As for PH, ive found with hydroton clay balls, the PH always comes out at around what you said, I've tried soaking them in a bath of adjusted water for a week, its quite hard to change it.

 

Edit: As for your rising EC in res, depending on what your temps are, colder temps, plants dont use as much nutes, so you could try using a lower EC to start with, and simply top up the res daily with fresh plain PH adjusted water.

Edited June 5, 2009 by Wrangler556

[flatcat_auz]

My local shop recently informed me the hydroton clay balls raise ph. I've used them for years and was under the impression that they were actually inert. Apparently not. I was using a ph meter until it died and waited about 18mths before replacing. Glad i did as the ph in my 40lt tank does seem to go + rather than -. Using duchfest with with rhizonzone and a bat guano prduct and also dutch master silica stuff(can't remember it's name...very potent don't need much.....does raise ph a fair bit too).

[nitram]

Hi jon,

 

Currently the lights are ~50cm above the top of the plants. The leaves are curling, droopy, rough, dry and bumpy in texture.

 

My thoughts on possible problems:

1. Certain nutrients from the solution may have been used quicker than others and are now

missing/too low.

2. pH is too high.

3. Watering too much.

4. Watering too little.

 

Using a res is tricky and requires time to get it just right for your particular setup (Called "dialing in"). You can expect fluxuations in the EC & PH due to evaporation and use by the plants.

 

The cooltube ducting is fitted with 2x 120M fans for intake and exhaust.

 

Are you running both 600's atm?

 

How good are the fans going on ya coolies ?

 

How are your tempreature in the cab going ? What air exhange for the cabibnet have you arranged ?

 

Your pics showed a slight nutrient burn in my opinion. Easily corrected.

 

 

1) Flush well with PH adjusted water. Start feeds @ low dose (say 1/2) then increasing 2 full streangth allowing time for recovery.

 

2) light height - use the "plam test" to determine the right distance.

Nitty.

[jondgls]

Hey guys thanks for the replies!

Are you running both 600's atm?

Yes @ about 55 cm above the tops.

How good are the fans going on ya coolies ?

Pretty good. They are 2x 120mm fans (1x intake, 1x exhaust) running during light periods off mains power.

How are your tempreature in the cab going ? What air exhange for the cabibnet have you arranged ?

Temps range from 19c to 29c over day/night period. Light period is overnight to keeps warm. Air exchange is good I think. I am using 2x 200mm bathroom fans for intake exhaust of the cabinet.

My core problems, which look very similar to yours were: overwatering, light to close, and windburn from having a fan on to strong/to close.

I have now cut back the watering, raised the ligt to 55cm and used a smaller fan.

1. Are the clay balls recycled/old, u should have cleaned them and let them soak in PH balanced water? If they were new they also need a good flush out, and a soaking in PH'ed water. If thats the case dump the water and give them PH'ed water for 24hrs dump. (Repeat if needed)

New clay balls used. Cleaned thouroughly with tap water (not ph adjusted).

Are u chasing your PH? It could explain the tip burn and the rising EC perhaps!?!?

I have been chasing the pH but is more stable now I have started using a lower EC of 0.7.

5. Whats your feed/watering schedule look like?

Started with 15 mins every 4hrs. Then cause I thought the problem was too little water I increased to 30mins every 2 hrs. I now think that was too high so I have cut back to 15mins every 6 hours always during light periods only. Becasue I changed so many things (pH, EC, system flush, light hight, etc..) not really sure what is right atm.

 

Basically what I have done is flushed the entire system and pots with fresh pH bal water. Now the EC has stabalized and the pH has also. pH still rises every day but that is due to the nutes sitting in black PVC tubes under the lights I think and I am adjusting pH every day.

I have also raised lights and intend to introduce some CO2 soon using yeast fermentation.

The plants seem slightly healthier but at the end of each 18 hr light period they look awful. Very droopy and dry, but then after the 6 hour dark period they perk up and seem fine. Not sure what that is about.

 

Thank you all for your advice. It is much appreciated.

JonDgls

[HashMakerOilProducts]

Two things...first how big is your res. The bigger the res the less varation you will have in PH. also it seems to me your temperature might be what is causing the plants to look bad after there light cycle.