Marijuana 'shrinks the brain'

[Oz]

Caught this on Today Tonight...

 

https://cannabis.community.forums.ozstoners...si&img=5708

[freddie]

... and this from the US which contradicts it.

A spliff test for science

 

It's the oldest but most important scientific question when two phenomena appear related: does one cause the other, vice versa, or is the apparent relationship pure coincidence? The question came up again this week when an Australian study demonstrated that 15 men who had all smoked marijuana heavily for at least 10 years had shrunken brain structures compared to those in non-users.

 

So was it the cannabis that on average shrank their hippocampuses by 12% and their amygdalas by 7%? Or were these same regions small to start with in these men, and if so, was it something that played a part in their strong liking for cannabis?

 

Certainly, both these regions are heavily affected by cannabis because they are both unusually rich in molecular receptors for delta-9-tetrahydrocannibol (THC), the psychoactive component in weed. The hippocampus is vital for storing memories and for the perception of time, and marijuana is known to affect both. Likewise, the amygdala is the brain's "fear" centre, and plays a key role in whether we react aggressively to events. Again, this fits with the observation that cannabis users sometimes develop paranoia.

 

To come back to the Australia study, is it equally possible that such prolonged exposure to cannabis wears out and shrinks these cannabis-sensitive regions? Again, we're back to cause and effect.

 

The only way to resolve it once and for all (as pointed out by the Australian researchers themselves at the end of their paper) would be to have brain scans of people before and after they began smoking cannabis. That way, you could see whether these regions did actually shrink the more cannabis they were exposed to. Or whether some people with unusually small regions at the outset turned out to be more attracted to the weed.

 

Unfortunately, a study to find out by deliberately giving cannabis to volunteers then following them for many years to see if their brains shrank would be unethical. Ethical comparisons could only be done if scans had been performed randomly on a wide population of children and kept as a general resource for researchers. If any of the scanned children subsequently became heavy dope users, it would be easy to check back and monitor whether brain regions were changing size. But obtaining the scans would cost a huge amount of money without any guarantee that it would yield any findings of interest.

 

So for now, we simply don't know for sure whether cannabis is genuinely changing brain architecture. And the same dilemmas apply to study of all addictions. Which is why some researchers contacted by New Scientist cautioned against sensationalising the Australian results.

 

"You must be very careful looking at this paper in isolation," says Tim Williams, who studies addiction at the University of Bristol. "With this kind of study, you can't tease out cause and effect." Williams also pointed out that a study in 2005 of long-term cannabis users by researchers at Harvard Medical School found that there was no effect on the size of their hippocampuses. "I'm surprised the Australians found an effect where others haven't," he adds.

 

The take-home message is clear! Be cautious about concluding too much from addiction studies which might confuse cause and effect. Yes, it could be down to the drug, but equally, it could be down to your pre-existing brain architecture, and the effect of that on your personality.

 

Andy Coghlan, New Scientist reporter

source...ww.newscientist.com/blog/shortsharpscience/2008/06/spliff-test-for-science.html?DCMP=ILC-rhts&nsref=ts13_bar

 

... and this from the US which contradicts it.

 

No it doesn't contradict it. It just cautions against a causal link.

 

Yes, it could be down to the drug, but equally, it could be down to your pre-existing brain architecture, and the effect of that on your personality.

 

There will no doubt be follow up studies on this.

[RobbieGanjaSeed]

Some years ago now, maybe 8 or so? ..I was prescribed a drug "dextalethasone" (I know it's evil or whatever to mis-spell a chemical name, but that's as close as I can manage right now. Amazingly, due to a bd headahce. Which is what the dexamethasone was pescribed for, ..."cluster headaches". I was injecting dyhergot 9a sythesised drug with almsot identical properties to Acid). Using it means I have to becareful for the rest of my life of gangreen. it shut down the blood vessles in my extremities.

 

Anyway, I was inhaling oxygen to help with the porble ,that was real nice. clear headed stuf oxygen.

 

Finally, the put me on detramethasone (or whatever it is spelled). it shrinks the brain. in fact is one reason it is precribed for. To reduce swelling in serious car accidents. it's restriced use now, only for life and death use. It caused m to loos em memory. I mean I knew who i was and all, ad in my name. but I dodnt know "who I was", and I dont mean totoally philosophically either.

my wife would ask "would you like some cofee", simple enough right?

I would stare at her, wondering what the appropriate answer was.

She'd ask if I wanted steak and veg for dinner, same thing, I;d cy sometimes! The confusion was so overpowering. My wiofe fed me at times, because i had become zombie like.

 

I couldn't beleieve such a drug existed, and the worste part i, i rdidn't stop the headaches.

In fact, subsequent doctors have been amazed it was eevn prescribed for the cluster headache thing, as they had never heard of it preseribed for such before.Seems my neurologist heard it was about to be banned 9restricted) and he thought he would see what ever increasing doses would do to a human.

 

When I had finally said enough and wanted off, I sw my gp, who told me I couldnt stop the drug just "like that". I had to stop by reducing the dose point 5 (half) of a mg every few days ( was on 16 omg a day).

I had to keep having blood tests, becuase the drug shuts down ya renal gland, and has a substitute in the pill to compensate for the shutting down the natural stuff (I think it was adrenaline, but not sure). The drug is essentially a heavy duty steroid sythesisied with other heavy duty shit.

 

If the renal gland didn't restart on it's own , and this does happen enough to be consiered a reasonable chance, you have to stay on tis poison all your life now you started. And they dont tell you any of this at the start. in fact I felt something was "up", something serious abou it, so I went out of my way to ask what side effects it has. teh chemist sad "what did the gp tell you?" I siad he told me nothing. The chemist told me if the specialist tells me othing, and the GP tells me nothing, theydomt interfere by telling . I insisted I didnt believe they could hand over a drug with a person asking information, and they could legally deny thatinfo. The chemist was wild, and printed out the most complex report of ten pages i ever saw. I made no sesnse of it at all.

I went back to my GP, asked what could happen if I take this drug 9this was all before i took a single pil). He asked "what did the neurologist say?"

Again I said he told me nothing, nd again I was told, "if the specialist tells you nothing we generally dont tell anything either.."

 

I was told patients are often kept in the dark about what they take, to help them fel comfotable.

 

The upshot it, i took 18 months to recover from a 3 or so months course of this shit.

I had suffered "de-personalisation" which isn't amnesia, but it means I dont know who I am. Do I like fishing? Do I like coffee? come here, sit there, stand up, move here...without being told what to do and when to do i, I would just "sit".

It caused me to swell in weight from a healthy weight to obese. Strong steroids really bulk on the weight. If you see a person walking down the astreet with a face like a "moon", they may be suffering a syndrome called moon face", ofen accompanied with acne.

 

I've never really lost te weight, in fat I put more on over the years. I've never truly recovered. I was always a reclusive person, now I'm accutely so, and I know it goes back to the dextamethasone.

 

So "shrinking brains after how manyyears of being stoned? And the agro part of the brain? These cunts ...they have prescriptiondrugs they give out that kills all the time, ruins lives, and for themost part is usless.

The most common drug to die on in Australia is a steroid called prendisone. it's prescribed basicaly when a doctor has prescibed all else and hs nothing else t use. I now they say they hve a set list of people prendisone canhelp, but I've been prescbed it for al manner of reasons, and it never helped one\ce.In fact my wife was prescribed it the other day for osti-perosis. I talked her into almost throwing it out. to leave it until she has nothing else to ry, and even then, half the dose they told her, and to stop the instant bad neversw, anger, over-eating or serious side effects are known. Like Isaid, ..heroin, cocaine, all prescribed and illicit drugs in the country concerned...nothing kills more Aussies a year than prendisone, in iot's prescribed dose at the prescribed time. I'm not tlaing "abuse" of it. there's no "up" feeling to abuse it for.

 

The dangerous drugs they hand out to people, without warning, without concern is stagering. And they are concerned abotut some shrinking of brain cells in the violent part of the brain. if it's found to be true yet anyway.

 

The stuff i took for headaches was widelt used at one stage. It fucke d me over in a a permanent way.

How dare they try to scare people with such nonsense. So many deadly shit is handed out to peope all over the place, and no-one is doing research in the evil drug pusher pharmacutical comapanies and their lacky offsider GPs.

 

If I could five even a partial feeling of what this crap did to me..I would see a new doctor, and trhey woud ask what drgs I gad used before I saw them, and whe I inluced dextamethasone, they'd look at me with a startled look. say thing slike "dont be in a hurry to recover, it can take a while"....

they give out seriously dangerou shit all thew time witrh no regard for the health or life (except for the litigating part) of the patient. And they want me to believe they're so concerned I might not ant to bashmy wife's brain in so readily if i smoke pot? well thanks bastards..but I'll make my own choices frm now on, and never consider a doctor to be so highly regarded in my mind ever aagain.

 

rob

[grok]

i dont believe in the govt/medical establisment and their pill pushing agenda. i dont believe in pills. i dont take 'em i dont take any pills...no sleeping pills, no Eccy's no aspirins, no multi vitamin pills, no vitamin C tablets NO PILLS!!.....and stories like Rob's make me glad that i dont.

...just too many unknown dangers...not like me medicine marijuana... all prasie magical medical marijuana

[RobbieGanjaSeed]

Grok, my brother is exactly like you. He's faced down some of the ugliest colds/flus? you can imagine. he has 2 children and when they were young, I was torn apart thinking he was neglecting them, as they would often have snotty noses, and dealing with matters i would have raced my kids off to the doctors for.

 

he and his wife have taken medicine twice in all their adult years! I cant rememeber what they were for. prob. anti-biotics? I dunno.

 

Anyway, I've been given virtually around the clock medical care.

 

he's 2 years my junior and still throwing bricks and blocks like a youth. he's a brickie. he smokes choof every day of course.

His wife is as healthy as a teen aswell. I'm 2 years older, on every pill known to man, and no way am I going to live a long healthy life. he and his fam will.

 

I think you've made the right choice grok.

 

I do think there could be a ballance, but I alo think you have to be extremely dilligent in keeping a close eye on that ballance. I mean if you read the fine print on most medicines, they say in general "we have no idea how this shit works, but we "believe" it ...does this or that.."..they dont even know what it does to you, or how. How can they say what it will do to you in time to come?

 

peace

rob

[germangirl]

Should I feel depressed now??

[Dragonfan]

Oh this really takes the biscuit! A study comparing 15 purported stoners with 15 nonpurported stoners [and they couldn't even match the mean age of the testees . . . mmm, not testes, even though they all had them . . . oh, sorry, got side tracked there]!

 

Seriously though . . . who the hell are these moronic researchers . . . and those in the media who 'ran' with this story! Thank heaven there's some 'sane' scientists out there . . . oh this really annoys the bewhatsits outta me!

 

Robbie I hear where you're coming from for sure, I had 20/20 vision 'til I was prescribed a pain killer a few years ago, I now wear glasses as they ruined my eyesight! I'm another of those who WON'T take prescription meds these days, in fact, I steer away from anything chemically concoted [make my own cleaners, moisturisers, shampoos etc] as I'm allergic to sulphur . . . but . . . there is NO ONE on this entire planet that will EVER convince me that Marijuana is NOT good for me, nor for my partner [who suffers Type 1 Diabetes], he had his eyes checked last week and for a long term Diabetic his vision is brilliant [thanks to the ganja he's smoked on and off since he was a young teenager]

 

And further to the memory loss bull shit . . . I remember things I don't even know I knew . . . ffs . . . my brain ticks over ALL the time [wish I could find the off switch] and I NEVER forget anything I need to remember . . . I don't remember things that are of no import, but I sure as hell have NEVER had a problem with short or long term memory loss!

 

And I'll say again what I always say, for those who put it about that Marijuana is causal for schizophrenia . . . what a crock . . . I was married to a schizophrenic and he never smoked a day in his life, yet I did [and I'm normal . . . um, who said that?!?!? ] well I'm as normal as you perceive normal to be . . . if people are prone to having shrunken parts of their brains they will, if people are prone to mental problems they will have them whether or not they smoke or don't . . . I wish the world at large would stop piling shite on Marijuana [it's a good cop out though] and realise that the plant itself, hemp, on the whole, can save the planet not to mention treat and or even cure many many many of the worlds ills with few if any side affects [and aside from that, I kinda like the side effects of Marijuana!] Ganja RuleZ!

 

Gah, sorry I blathered, but it's just SO BLOODY annoying . . . the bull that is bandied about by quasi experts and their ilk . . . I bet they never smoked a spliff between them in their entire lives!