Doctors to trial pain relief with cannabis

[RobbieGanjaSeed]

It'll destroy the even small legal defense we mount when arrested "I need it for pain control"...'cause the beak will only say "go to your chemist and get the spray you nob. Stop breaking the law...next!

[grace]

Synthetic forms of cannabis are already legally available through the TGA's Special Access Scheme for individuals on a case by case basis for those not wanting to be part of trials. See for example dronabinol section 77 Health (Drugs and Poisons) Regulations Qld or the NSW Poisons List. They are Schedule 8 - controlled drugs. The major problem is getting doctors to do the paperwork.

 

Trials of synthetic cannabis have already been conducted overseas why do trials need to be conducted here. The government are treating people like guinea pigs. GW etc could apply for a licence and the TGA could just follow Cananda, UK, USA etc and approve the applications instead of the expense of importing it through the SAS. No drug company has applied for a licence in Australia to date so that's why it needs to be imported and is so expensive.

 

Some people experience unwanted side effects from the synthetic forms of cannabis. See Marinol vs Natural Cannabis

 

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6635

 

Terrence Parker fought for his right to use natural cannabis over Marinol (synthetic THC) in the Ontario Court of Appeal and won. It's about an individual's right to chose their own health treatment.

 

Regina v Parker at http://www.drugpolicy.org/docUploads/Reginav_Parker.pdf

[Guest niall]

I simply disagree.

 

Many patients who will benefit from cannabis medicines currently cannot, or will not, access whole-plant cannabis for one reason or another. Pharmaceutical grade cannabis extracts make cannabis available to many more people than currently have access - in a very pure and controlled form.

 

I absolutely agree that we should be able to grow our own, but that has nothing to do with this topic. Medical cannabis will only gain acceptance through legal, prescribed use. We're not having any luck pursuing a herbal only approach, and there are patients that simply cannot wait and need this medicine now.

 

Continue growing your own and using whole-plant cannabis, nothing has changed for you. But let patients who need other alternatives get access to this medicine, don't hold back their right to safe and effective medicine simply because you're not getting what you want. Continue to fight for cannabis law reform, and access to whole-plant cannabis - and as Sativex is prescribed and accepted by the community you will enjoy the benefits that this brings. It cannot harm the law reform debate, it only proves that cannabis is safe and effective medicine. The only difference is in the method of delivery - vapourisers achieve precisely the same effect, for cheaper, and consumers should have the choice to select their medicine and the form in which it is used. Soon Sativex will be a legal alternative for patients, let them have it and stop getting in their way!

[Oz]

I agree you should certainly be allowed a choice of how you wish to administer any medicine, and of course if people are allowed that choice then by all means support it but while growing your own remains illegal your choice is going to be limited to the risk of growing, risk of tainted cannabis from un-ethical dealers and of course nice safe legal Sativex.

[grace]

I simply disagree.

 

We're not having any luck pursuing a herbal only approach, and there are patients that simply cannot wait and need this medicine now.

 

Continue growing your own and using whole-plant cannabis, nothing has changed for you. But let patients who need other alternatives get access to this medicine, don't hold back their right to safe and effective medicine simply because you're not getting what you want. Continue to fight for cannabis law reform, and access to whole-plant cannabis - and as Sativex is prescribed and accepted by the community you will enjoy the benefits that this brings. It cannot harm the law reform debate, it only proves that cannabis is safe and effective medicine. The only difference is in the method of delivery - vapourisers achieve precisely the same effect, for cheaper, and consumers should have the choice to select their medicine and the form in which it is used. Soon Sativex will be a legal alternative for patients, let them have it and stop getting in their way!

 

Hi Niall. Sorry that you "misunderstood" my post. I am the last person trying to get in anyone’s way of accessing alternative treatment or trying to hold back anyone’s right to safe and effective medicine!!! I am an advocate for people who use drugs and do it at my own expense. I have been lobbying for alternatives for ages but have concerns about trials.

 

I have sought information on access to pharmaceutical cannabis for medical use and know it is not necessary to WAIT for a trial. You can get your own doctor to apply for it now. I am just trying to share information here.

 

The point I am trying to get across is that individuals may be able to legally access Sativex NOW and not have to WAIT for a trial. This is only a proposal for a trial and the wheels of government move very slowly. It is great getting this out to the public to help change public perceptions of cannabis and educate about the medical benefits however many people don't have time to wait for trials.

 

What about the patients whose conditions do not fit into the trial or who do not live in NSW. Will medical users be exempt from the criminal laws while the trials are being conducted etc.

 

The legal avenue for individuals to access the so called prohibited drugs including cannabis, cocaine etc have been sitting in state and federal laws for ages. Rather than WAIT for a trial which may not even happen an individual can ask their doctor to apply for approval to get drugs such as sativex imported NOW.

 

 

State Law

 

Google dronabinol.

 

Commonwealth Law

 

Applications are assessed by the TGA on a case by case basis and there are appeal avenues if the application is rejected.

 

See TGA's Special Access Scheme (SAS).

 

<http://www.tga.gov.au/hp/sas.htm>

 

If the application is approved the TGA will provide the permit needed to get the drug through customs.

 

See s 50 Customs Act (Cth)

 

<http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1901124/>

 

 

You may remember the heroin trials and how a lot of people got their hopes up - look at the support there and it fell over not because of the law but because Howard wouldn't fund the millions it was going to cost to conduct the research.

 

There is a lot of lobbying going on for this as cannabis prescribed in pharmaceutical form appeals to doctors who do not want to be associated with natural cannabis.

 

I am helping with some applications through the SAS shortly so I will let you know how it goes. It's about consumer rights regardless of whether it's natural or pharmaceutical. Treatment needs to be tailored to meet the needs of the individual. We all have different needs and should be able to have access to treatment that gives us quality of life and minimal side effects. I hope you understand where I am coming from now.

 

Best wishes

 

BTW - I didn't buy shares in GW, Solvay or Link.

 

extract from some letters I have received:

 

New South Wales Health

 

I write in response to your letter to the Minister concerning the use of cannabis and dronabinol for medical purposes. I can confirm that the use of cannabis in any form (plant, leaf, oil or resin) is prohibited in New South Wales. This prohibition also precludes use for medical purposes.

 

However, I am advised that under the provisions of the Poisons and Therapeutic Goods Act it is possible for a medical practitioner to apply for and be given approval to prescribe Dronabinol for medical purposes. Dronabinol is one of the active ingredients of cannabis (tetrahydrocannabinol) that has been manufactured to pharmaceutical standards under licence and is in pharmaceutical form.

 

Dronabinol is not manufactured in Australia but may be imported under the Australian Government’s Special Access Scheme.

 

Dr Denise Robinson Deputy Director General Population NSW Health dated 11 April 2007

 

TGA

 

 

Thank you for your enquiry regarding consumer import enquiry.

 

Medical cannabis and Marinol are Prohibited Import Substances under customs regulations 5, schedule 4, items 35 and 223.

 

If you are seeking to import products which are considered to be prohibited imported under Customs Regulations import permits are not issued to individuals who wish to import for personal use. However, a registered medical practitioner can seek approval to supply such goods to you through the Therapeutic Goods Administration Scheme (SAS). Once this approval has been granted a Permit to Import can be issued to your medical practitioner on your behalf. You can call the SAS on 02 6232 8101.

 

Richard Lockett, Treaties and Compliance, Department of Health and Aging 1 February 2007

 

Solvay Pharmaceuticals

 

Thank you for your request for information regarding Marinol (dronabinol). As you are aware this product is not available in Australia. It is however available in the USA and Canada and is marketed in the US by Solvay Pharmaceuticals.

 

Your doctor may be able to prescribe this medication under either the Authorised Prescriber or Special Access Scheme administered via the TGA. etc etc

 

Cynthia Tan 1 february 2007

[grok]

See that apple tree there, it's a special one. You are forbidden to take it's fruit.

 

However, you can buy some of my lovely apple juice..

..ah you cynical bastard mullaway!!

[Guest niall]

Hi Niall. Sorry that you "misunderstood" my post.

 

Sorry grace I should have quoted properly, I wasn't responding to your post but some other comments above.

 

There are some vocal opponents of pretty much everything in here, unless legalising homegrown is on the table they seem opposed to any progress in other directions. It seems selfish, and hypocritical, to oppose patients being given more options than they currently have, to be able to access cannabis in a non-smokable non-herbal form. There are plenty of arguments against Sativex - it is proving less effective than whole-plant cannabis for a start - but it is helping many patients around the world and Australian patients should not be dismissed and disrespected in the way that some posters have done so in this thread.

 

We should encourage cannabis to be made available to as many people as possible, in as many forms as possible. It's safe and it works, it's that simple! The more people using it, in any form, the better. Sativex is good for all cannabis consumers, one way or another. You can theorise and bullshit all you want, constructing all sorts of conspiracy theories and unproven assertions and possibilities about how pharmaceutical extracts and synthetics *might* affect you, but at the end of the day Sativex is helping people and it is not harming the case for whole-plant herbal cannabis as medicine. Look at Canada, the USA, the Netherlands, and now Israel! All have whole-plant medicinal cannabis programs, all have Sativex or similar products available as an option for doctors to prescribe and patients to use.

 

Sativex proves that cannabis works.

[pipeman]

cart before the horse niall. those countries had medical programs before sativex came on the market, so its not any kind of evidence that sativex will not impede law reform. In countries like Australia where there are no medicinal mj programs, personal growers now have no chance, because the governments and beurocrats can easily shut down their argumetns by pointing out that the drug they want is available off the shelves. law reform following pharmaceutical availability has not happened with any other drug, so why should it happen with cannabis? It won't.

 

I'm all for making canna products available to all. But at $2000+ per month its nothing short of criminal, which is what one medicinal patient told me was what he'd be up for to get the amount he needed in Canada. Now if the government wanted to make these products available at prices the average person can afford that would be something, but we all know that ain't gonna happen either.

 

This is not freeing the plant, just making it more expensive.

 

here are some vocal opponents of pretty much everything in here, unless legalising homegrown is on the table they seem opposed to any progress in other directions. It seems selfish, and hypocritical,

 

bullshit, no one is saying that.

[Guest niall]

cart before the horse niall. those countries had medical programs before sativex came on the market, so its not any kind of evidence that sativex will not impede law reform.

 

Incorrect. Israel is only setting up their herbal cannabis program now, years after Sativex was first made available. Besides Dronabinol, aka Marinol, has been available for decades - predating all modern medical cannabis programs. The existence of synthetics and extracts has not stopped the development of herbal cannabis medical programs. It's a valid concern, but you're simply wrong.

 

In countries like Australia where there are no medicinal mj programs, personal growers now have no chance, because the governments and beurocrats can easily shut down their argumetns by pointing out that the drug they want is available off the shelves.

 

I disagree, and the experience of patients around the world (as pointed out earlier in the thread) shows that this is not happening. Sativex is available, as are other forms of cannabis. Some patients prefer one over the other. I acknowledge the argument, but we know that this is flawed - Sativex is taken sublingually and is a very specific mix of cannabinoids (the first of a series of products). Not all patients get the effects that they need, cannabis medicines are very strain/ratio specific - and there is growing evidence to suggest that the other aromatics (terpenoids, flavinoids etc.) play a significant role in herbal cannabis, not just the quantity and ratio of many differing cannabinoids working synergistically.

 

Sativex is not cannabis, it's simply one example of a cannabis medicine. This argument, that whole-plant cannabis is now unnecessary, is easily disproven - in fact this has been happening in the Canadian Courts over the last few months. Planned changes to the MMAR to phase out whole-plant cannabis will be successfully challenged in Court, it is a flawed argument.

 

Patients need access to medicine that works. Sativex works for some people, for some conditions. We barely understand the actions of a few of the known cannabinoids. There are decades, if not a century or more, of work to be done in understanding these compounds, our endogenous cannabinoids, and the cannabinoid receptor system. It is a regulatory trigger impacting on virtually every system within the body - we've barely scratched the surface! Whole-plant cannabis provides a diverse range of cannabinoids, flavinoids, terpenoids and other compounds - in a variety of different ratios and quantities. We're learning from the plant, and so whole-plant cannabis is rapidly returning to the hands of medical practitioners and patients around the world. Sativex is not stopping this, just as Marinol didn't. All they do is prove that cannabis is safe, that it is effective, and that it is cheap!

 

law reform following pharmaceutical availability has not happened with any other drug, so why should it happen with cannabis? It won't.

 

For many reasons, but you're taking us off-topic. Sativex is good and it should be made available in Australia, and I disagree with any suggestion to the contrary. Move on.

 

I'm all for making canna products available to all. But at $2000+ per month its nothing short of criminal, which is what one medicinal patient told me was what he'd be up for to get the amount he needed in Canada. Now if the government wanted to make these products available at prices the average person can afford that would be something, but we all know that ain't gonna happen either.

 

Canada's public health system is not Australia's, but yes this is a valid point as I've already recognised in an earlier post. Regardless, some patients will find relief from it and this is not an argument for its availability - this debate should (and already is in Canada) occur after it has been made available, if indeed it is not affordable and accessible to Australian patients.

 

This is not freeing the plant, just making it more expensive.

 

The plant and your use of it remains unchanged. Sativex becomes available to those who want/need it. One new product, a new tool for doctors and patients to make use of if they choose. Sativex is not a plant, so no it will not make the plant more expensive - if you're actually suggesting that legal pharmaceutical products will somehow drive up the price of black-market herbal cannabis then please provide some evidence to support this. Yes I know you didn't mean this, but you're confusing the issue by introducing strawmen and further tangents.

 

There are some vocal opponents of pretty much everything in here, unless legalising homegrown is on the table they seem opposed to any progress in other directions. It seems selfish, and hypocritical,

 

bullshit, no one is saying that.

 

I'm entitled to my opinion, and I haven't accused anyone of saying anything. Read more carefully pipeman.

[theFATMAN]

Well, it's gotta be a step in the right direction, aye?