DWC Questions / General questions

[stonedstump]

Hi everyone, I have a few questions if someone doesn't mind helping me out

 

 

I am wondering is there a point in having a resorvoir in DWC if I have 3 x 20/25L bubbler buckets?

 

It's alot of water to mix up and I don't understand how all that water is even needed because the plants won't be fully grown for a while and surely won't drink that much water? (I've never grown before tho)

 

Please let me know about resorvoirs and if I should have one. Also should I put a small water pump in the resorvoir to circulate the water?

 

How does the water from the resorvoir get circulated around the buckets? or isn't that the purpose?

 

Also should I replace the water every 2 weeks even for vegging? do you guys always change your water EVERY 2 weeks from start to finish (plant sprout to bud)?

 

 

Another question now..,

 

I have one dual outlet 9500cc pump which is 510L/ph.

 

I plan to run both outlets on it into a t peice and 5/6inch airstones for one bucket.

But for my other two buckets I want to buy a 4 outlet 1200L/ph pump which will be split into 2 outlets and 1 45cm air curtain each(equals 600L/h each)

 

What kind of pumps do you guys run in your buckets? how many L per hour?

 

I might buy another 510L/ph pump like ive already got just for the resorvoir too (depends what you guys say in this thread)

 

 

Another question also,

 

Should I use just use pH adjusted tap water? my tap water has a pH of 8.

what order do I mix the nutrients etc?

 

Should it go:

 

Fill with tap water

Add nutrient mix (1/3 strength to start)

add pH down

 

is that how it's done?

 

 

 

Please let me know what you think and help where you can. I know there is alot of questions but I think it will help other people too.

 

 

Thanks everyone

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

I just thought maybe I should buy an 80L black tub and put 4 plants in that with the 4 outlet air pump 1200L/ph and 2 x air curtains.

 

Please give me your opinion would that workout ok? Would it be better than using 3 seperate buckets and resorvoir?

Edited July 3, 2006 by stonedstump

[Luke Skywalker]

Okay bud, let's see if I can help you out here....

 

I am wondering is there a point in having a resorvoir in DWC if I have 3 x 20/25L bubbler buckets?

 

It's alot of water to mix up and I don't understand how all that water is even needed because the plants won't be fully grown for a while and surely won't drink that much water? (I've never grown before tho)

 

Please let me know about resorvoirs and if I should have one.

 

Okay, if you're referring to what's called a "control bucket" in deep water culture, then yes, it's a good idea. It's not absolutely necessary, but it makes life easier. In hydroponics, the larger the solution you have in total for the plants, the more even and less change there will be in that solution over time. The more stable a solution, the better the plants will grow. It also means you can check and adjust pH and e.c. in the control bucket, and provided the solution is moving between the bubblers, you can then know that it will be the same or pretty damn close in the growing buckets.

 

The control bucket also allows you to top up to a predetermined level either daily or every couple of days, according to how much they drink of course, and this topping up will then flow through the connections between each system until they even out. You can easily automate this by having a secondary reservoir which feeds into the control by gravity and a float valve. This will top up the water once it drops below the level you set it at, making life a whole lot easier. You can certainly top up the water manually though.

 

Plants, even when small, can drink a remarkable amount of water. Most of the water initially isn't used, true, but it's easier to have a pot system for DWC which is the size you intend to use from start to finish than to move plants around from one smaller pot/bucket to the next size up. Deep water culture is a true hydroponic system in that the roots grow in aerated nutrient solution, as opposed to being grown in a media which is periodically irrigated with nutrient solution. This means that the water volume is even more critical as this is where the roots will live. A root system can get very, very large in DWC and it's better to have more room than you need to than to have too little.

 

Also should I put a small water pump in the resorvoir to circulate the water?

 

If by this you mean to move water from one bubbler to the next, then yeah, it's a good idea if you've got many plants in a long line, where the solution is unlikely to be moving around between containers easily. That said, you don't absolutely need one. If you mean to just have a circulating pump in the control bucket only then it's also a good idea, but not absolutely necessary. You can manually take a few litres from the control reservoir, which is connected as low as possible to the growing buckets, and transfer this to the growing buckets, which will then slowly drain some of the solution back into the control as these two are joined and the water level will even out. Doing this a few times a week will assist in maintaining an even solution and more accurate readings in the control. This is only if you don't circulate the solution between control and growing buckets via a pump.

 

How does the water from the resorvoir get circulated around the buckets? or isn't that the purpose?

 

I think I just answered that, but yeah, it is kinda the point but the solution is also the media. Provided the plants are adequately catered for with aeration and you can dose the growing bubblers easily enough, there's no need to have a control, or to circulate between it and the growing buckets. But it's a good idea, for the reasons outlined above.

 

Also should I replace the water every 2 weeks even for vegging? do you guys always change your water EVERY 2 weeks from start to finish (plant sprout to bud)?

 

That's the minimum changeover for solution timeline for any recirculating hydroponic setup. A better way to go is to do it once a week, which ensures that you'll have a fresh, and therefore complete hydroponic solution for the plants to feed from. Plants draw out nutrient elements in varying rates from the solution, and if it's recirculating it will eventually, (sometimes quite quickly with actively growing plants) become unbalanced and even harmful. 2 weeks is about as far as you'd want to leave a single solution, particularly with something like DWC where the solution is in constant contact with the roots. A weekly dump and reformulate is usually a better way to go.

 

Another question now..,

 

I have one dual outlet 9500cc pump which is 510L/ph.

 

I plan to run both outlets on it into a t peice and 5/6inch airstones for one bucket.

But for my other two buckets I want to buy a 4 outlet 1200L/ph pump which will be split into 2 outlets and 1 45cm air curtain each(equals 600L/h each)

 

What kind of pumps do you guys run in your buckets? how many L per hour?

 

I might buy another 510L/ph pump like ive already got just for the resorvoir too (depends what you guys say in this thread)

 

If you run a tee piece on any air line make sure that both lines running from that tee are the same length, or you'll get different amounts of air coming from each one. Better to get a four outlet pump if you can and use one line for each bubbler.

 

The more powerful the airpump the better. The 1200lph units (I think I know the ones you mean) are excellent for deep water culture, although I have used smaller ones. Unless you're using a pump which puts so much air into the solution that it's blowing water out of the bucket, the bigger the better.

 

Try and keep the same kind of airstone and pump for each pot, this makes sure that each plant is getting the same amount of air.

 

The reservoir can have a slightly smaller pump if you like, it's not growing plants in it so isn't as critical that it be aerated quite as strong, but it is a good idea to aerate it. All solutions for hydroponics, be it DWC, media based recirculating or even run-to-waste, benefit from aeration.

 

Should I use just use pH adjusted tap water? my tap water has a pH of 8.

what order do I mix the nutrients etc?

 

Should it go:

 

Fill with tap water

Add nutrient mix (1/3 strength to start)

add pH down

 

is that how it's done?

 

Most tap waters are fine, provided they haven't got an e.c. reading through the roof. Anything above 1.0ec and you're going to struggle to give the plants what they need. The cleaner and purer the water the better. That said, many growers use tapwater like some of the supply in Perth which has e.c. levels in the .7 to .9 range and yeild magnificently.

 

The order for your solution make up should be as follows.

 

1. Fill with tap water.

2. check pH

3. adjust pH to 5.5-6.0 (better around 6 before nutes as it will drop slightly after adding nutrient)

3. Add part A of nutrient mix - stir well (start @ about 1/4 - 1/3 strength or so)

4. Add part B of nutrient mix - stir well (If you have a one part then just add that as step 3.)

5. check e.c. and pH to ensure in the right ranges, adjust if necessary.

 

Get yourself a truncheon or similar e.c. meter. It might cost you a bit initially, but you'll be very, very thankful that you did. Truncheons have a 5 year warranty and last a heck of a lot longer than that. There are other reputable brands of e.c. meter, but truncheons don't need calibration, and as I said, last forever.

 

I just thought maybe I should buy an 80L black tub and put 4 plants in that with the 4 outlet air pump 1200L/ph and 2 x air curtains.

 

Please give me your opinion would that workout ok? Would it be better than using 3 seperate buckets and resorvoir?

 

Yes, it would work, but I'd still have a control bucket for checking and adjusting the solution. If you're growing from seed it could be a problem unless you sex the plants first, as the roots will intertwine and form a dense mat into each other. If you have to remove a male or a hermie you could harm the other plants in the process. If you're going from clones it could be just as good as individual pots, but space the netpots they sit in as far apart as possible in the lid, so that you don't have plants which shade each other as they grow.

 

Well, I hope that helps, I'm sure there will be many others who will join in and throw a lot of other suggestions at you, which is the great benefit of having a forum like this. Have a bit of a search around the forums for grows done by others and questions asked about DWC and other hydroponic systems. There's a wealth of information here just waiting to be mined and minted in your own growroom.

 

If there's anything I've said which didn't make sense to you, please let me know and I'll try and explain better... I can be a little verbose at times...

[stonedstump]

Hey Luke

 

Thanks for the in depth response.

 

There is a couple of things I need to ask now.

 

 

First of all I don't have an EC metre and can't afford one at the moment so I will be guessing the whole way.

 

I don't know the EC of my tap water all I know is it has a pH of 8..I guess that's all I can really use anyway so I will have to take my chances with it

 

This is what I plan to do.

 

I am using Manutec Hydroponic nutrient two part mix (anyone elsed used this stuff?).

 

I am going to mix it up and now as you have said one week intervals I will mix it each week freshly and only top up with water (no nutrients tilll the next change).

 

Then empty the tanks at the end of the week and rinse out with fresh water (to remove any build up) and fill up with a fresh nutrient solution, 1/4 strength at first eventually leading up to 1/2 strength during flowering.

 

At the moment I have one bubbler bucket but I don't know weather to get 3 more buckets or just buy a big tub and scrap the bucket I have. I know I will be buying the 4 outlet air pump and you say I could using that for four seperate 25L bubblers? (one on each line, 300L each will that be enough? or should I use 1 1200L pump for every 2 buckets??(im not made of money though))

 

then use the 510L pump that I already have for the resorvoir..now it's coming together abit better.

Should I use a 60L or 80L resorvoir? or 40L even?? let me know please

 

Also should I set up a pump on a timer (say 1 every 12 hours) to pump water from the resorvoir directly into the four bubbler buckets to help move the solution around?

 

thanks again Luke

keep the replies coming everyone

Edited July 3, 2006 by stonedstump

[stonedstump]

come on guys please help me out here

 

I have another question for you all too

 

How do you empty your buckets and resorvoir? Do you use a pump and drain it into a sink or something??

 

...

 

I have also drawn a picture here can someone tell me which method is correct for linking everything up?

 

I have added it as a file attachment (JPEG) please let me know what you think.

 

 

any help with my other questions is appreciated greatly too

Edited July 4, 2006 by stonedstump

[stonedstump]

I've thought about it more and think I will buy one 60L tub (maybe 80L) and grow four plants in it.

 

I think I got abit confused with DWC (being my first time and all), I now realise that if you want to use seperate buckets (as I wanted to), you need alot more parts and you have to circulate the water around (sounds abit tedious for me)

 

so I think I will buy the tub and put four plants in under a 1000w light and a 1200L per hour pump with 2 x 45cm air curtains.

 

Please let me get this straight...

 

A resorvoir is your supply of water and it sits up higher than everything.

A control bucket sits at the same level as the plants and with the float valve in there you control the height of water (using the resorvoir as the source for more water).

 

Is that kind of thing still needed in an 60/80L tub with four plants or am I best off just to mix in the tub seeing as it is big enough?

 

Thanks for your help everyone (I might cut out a few costs this way too)

[Luke Skywalker]

First of all I don't have an EC metre and can't afford one at the moment so I will be guessing the whole way.

 

I don't know the EC of my tap water all I know is it has a pH of 8..I guess that's all I can really use anyway so I will have to take my chances with it

 

Get one on layby, even if you only pay 10 bucks a week. It's worth it.

 

This is what I plan to do.

 

I am using Manutec Hydroponic nutrient two part mix (anyone elsed used this stuff?).

 

It's crap IMHO. You could live with it, but you won't get as good results as you would with a liquid fert. Get a liquid fert, a one parter if you can't afford a two part. I recommend Dutch Treat for a one part, but there are many others out there too.

 

Then empty the tanks at the end of the week and rinse out with fresh water (to remove any build up) and fill up with a fresh nutrient solution, 1/4 strength at first eventually leading up to 1/2 strength during flowering.

 

Yup... pH adjust the flushing water. Helps to keep the solution in ionic form for easy flushing.

 

At the moment I have one bubbler bucket but I don't know weather to get 3 more buckets or just buy a big tub and scrap the bucket I have. I know I will be buying the 4 outlet air pump and you say I could using that for four seperate 25L bubblers? (one on each line, 300L each will that be enough? or should I use 1 1200L pump for every 2 buckets??(im not made of money though))

 

The more air the better, but most airpumps provide ample for a single plant in a bubbler.

 

How do you empty your buckets and resorvoir? Do you use a pump and drain it into a sink or something??

 

It's relatively easy to have a separate drain line with a tap which then use gravity as it drains out to feed a garden bed, lawn, tree, whatever, (no sense in wasting that nutrient and harming the environment) or you can actively pump it using a small water pump into a watering can and do the same. So long as it's practical for you, do what suits.

 

I have also drawn a picture here can someone tell me which method is correct for linking everything up?

 

The image with the separate connecting lines to the control bucket, (which is used to maintain the water level in the pots as well as providing an easy dosage point for pH, etc....) is the better of the two IMO.

 

I think I got abit confused with DWC (being my first time and all), I now realise that if you want to use seperate buckets (as I wanted to), you need alot more parts and you have to circulate the water around (sounds abit tedious for me)

 

Yes, but remember that if you have males you'll have a bitch of a time getting them out from the others, and it will be impossible to space the plants further apart as they develop if you want to.

 

so I think I will buy the tub and put four plants in under a 1000w light and a 1200L per hour pump with 2 x 45cm air curtains.

 

Use 2 600's if you can, you'll get better coverage and more light. 1000w systems put out a crapload of light, granted, but they need to be held further away from the plants and also put out more heat to deal with.

 

A resorvoir is your supply of water and it sits up higher than everything.

A control bucket sits at the same level as the plants and with the float valve in there you control the height of water (using the resorvoir as the source for more water).

 

Is that kind of thing still needed in an 60/80L tub with four plants or am I best off just to mix in the tub seeing as it is big enough?

 

You'll have to install an access port if you want to do that, and you'll be well served to have a mixing pump in a tank like that to prevent any burning to the roots when you dose pH.

 

You can use a control bucket for this without a float valve, you just have to top it up manually as the water level drops.

 

Hope that helps.

[stonedstump]

"Hope that helps" is the understatement of the year.

 

You answered nearly all my questions thank you!

 

 

I am stuck with the 1000w light as I got it dirt cheap and want to get some use out of it. I have 2 large 30cm 240v fans for ventalation and an air-conditioner in a window of the room as backup but probably won't need it.

 

I am going to sex the plants before I put them in the tub so I won't have to worry about tangled roots this time round.

 

I have decided to definatley go with a tub and that leads to my final question what size tub should I use for 4 plants?

 

I have purchased an AquaOne 1900L p/hr air pump now and 2 x 60cm air curtains.

 

I will then link my resorvoir (probably a smaller tub), using the 19mm hose I already have. I will have my 510L an hour air pump in there with one round air stone (6") and a water pump to circulate (as well as having a water pump in the tub with the plants).

 

I will be using this thread partly as a reference when i'm setting it up so keep the replies/helpful info coming everyone

 

I am running out of funds and fast, so I may have to delay the grow.

You say to use liquid nutrient, not the powder one you mix in? Does it clog pumps etc??

I may have to put the grow off to save up for nutrients. How many Litres of nutrient do you normally go through in one grow, considering all the water changes etc..?

 

thanks again Luke for your in depth replies, very helpful

 

 

EDIT: here is a picture I have drawn of what I want to do. Notice the water pumps are arranged to cause a circular motion in the water from tub to tub?

Let me know what you think please

Edited July 4, 2006 by stonedstump

[Luke Skywalker]

I have decided to definatley go with a tub and that leads to my final question what size tub should I use for 4 plants?

 

As big as you can practically fit and deal with. At least 10l per plant, but more is better.

 

You say to use liquid nutrient, not the powder one you mix in? Does it clog pumps etc??

 

Not necessarily, but it's not really a top-notch hydroponic formula, and powdered nutrients make it hard to ensure you get all the micronutrients mixed into any particular batch. It'll prob grow okay, provided you look after the nutrient packets and don't store them somewhere where any moisture can get to them. Make sure you seal the packets tight once you've finished using them, or they eventually just turn to a solid lump.

 

 

I may have to put the grow off to save up for nutrients. How many Litres of nutrient do you normally go through in one grow, considering all the water changes etc..?

 

You can't afford about 15 bucks for a liter of a one part nutrient? Geez, I'm poor, but surely you can put aside that every once and a while.

 

It's very difficult to give a nutrient amount that you'd go through in a grow, as there are entirely too many variables. It's better to get the bigger 5L sets, yes, but if you're just growing a few plants in a tub you'd probably be okay with a litre of grow for the moment and save up for a 5 litre of bloom nutrient over the few weeks of veg until you need it. If you have a particularly large tank you could need more, and you will probably need more anyway, depending on how big they end up, how hot the room is, if there are any problems that need remedial treatment or replacement of the solution when you don't plan to

 

1-part nutes like dutchtreat use about 40-50ml/10L for a mild solution, so a 1l container should be enough for 200L or so. You may use less or more than this rate though, and you may go through more or less nutrient. If you get a two part liquid formula it will be more concentrated. You can get a more expensive brand like Canna Aqua and then only use 20ml A+B per 10L, but it does cost more, like 35+ per 1L set of A+B.

 

I can't say enough though that you'll do better with a liquid formula. The Manutec brand is designed for home lettuce growers and the like, it's not that good for our purposes. I've tried and used it before and found it a lot more hassle than it's worth. Go to a hydroponic shop and put some on layby if you're really, really, really skint.

 

Hope that helps you again.

 

AND FOR GODS SAKE WOULD SOMEONE ELSE CHIME IN HERE? THIS MAN NEEDS HELP!

 

Sorry about that, I just think there should be at least one other opinion for this guy... I'm not always right. Just 99% of the time....

 

(That's a joke btw, for those with no sense of humour. )

[stonedstump]

Luke I was just thinking the same thing.... these slack buggers need to get their act together!! :)

 

I can probably afford $15-20 and as you said save up for the flowering nutrient for the end.

 

While we are on the topic of nutrients, which one do you personally recommend I use? I am going to be putting Microbial in my water so it can't be organic.

 

I will buy an 80L tub probably and a 60L tub for a resorvoir, (Also I was thinking I won't hook the resorvoir up at all until the plants are starting to drink a noticeable amount of water in between my weekly water change.)

Does that sound right?

 

What do you think of the last picture I posted, does it look right to you, that setup I have configured?

 

Edited July 4, 2006 by stonedstump

[Chato]

not much else to say but good luck and grow hard Luke's covered it all pretty well!

 

peace

c