misuse help - big problem

[dsyfer]

Reverse roles, pretend it was the other way around, what could he say that would get your attention?

[pipeman]

If your offers of help so far have been ignored the short answer is you can't and shouldn't help him until he asks for it. If that means letting him hit rock bottom then thats what needs to happen. If you try to force help on him he will retreat further into his shell.

 

You should be supportive and let him know you are there and talk to him and include him in your life as much as possible but don't judge him or try to force anything on him. In short be someone he can turn to, not someone thats always trying to get him to change. He needs to change himself, all you can do is be there to help him when he asks for it.

 

perhaps when he is doing well in his sober periods ask him if he prefers life straight or bent. This is most likely the time where he can think rationally about his situation. If he agrees with you suggest that he puts it in writing that this is how he wants his life to be and if he slips back into the waste of space stoner lifestyle again he wants you to yank him out of it because when he's in that state he can't think clearly himself. But the important thing is that HE is the one that puts it in writing so you can confront him with it when he slips back into anti living mode.

 

This is the strategy we used to help a family member with an addictive problem (not drugs) and it worked well.

 

Of course professional therapy would be good if he wants it and someone is willing to pay for it, but again it needs to be his decision don't force him into it.

[sasquatch]

This time I don't thinlk the hole he dug is very deep. more self flaggelation - as in im a bad bad boy, and at the moment a good job and a clearer or easier path out is on the line over the next two days.

 

There are a few ways to do things. And when you get yourself into a hole things always seem harder when your down in there, or seem easier- just easier being comfortably numb.

24 or 48 hours of soberness usually puts some perspective onto things...

 

Is all about how he feels about himself, well i guess so

that is the righteous roots way.

 

but also

 

drive round pick him up lock him in a room to detox then take him to work

this is another righteous way.

 

getting clean fixes the immediate problem

 

 

 

thanks

[Guest Eikel]

Is all about how he feels about himself, well i guess so

that is the righteous roots way.

 

but also

 

drive round pick him up lock him in a room to detox then take him to work

this is another righteous way.

 

getting clean fixes the immediate problem

thanks

 

Kind've extreme mate.... similar the following opposite-opinion extreme statements:

 

If I were your brother and you took option 2, you can be gauranteed you'd never see me again as soon as I was out.... if I decided not to take a bat to your head first.

 

The individual needs to acknowledge his own issues and overcome them, if he cannot, he should be left to rot and die, darwinism at work.

[naturalmystic]

yeh you can take all the good advice or you can do the most extreme inhumane thing and totally fuck things up permanetly in a moment of macho blindness , you almost sound like your talking about a junkie like eikel said as much as pots enjoyable if i had to i could give it up tommorow its not physically addictive or that physically draining ,its more the fact that its so enjoyable( and i know smack has the same fucking affect but pot doesnt fuck you over like that !!) i find with myself and others that thats what makes you want more i mean as soon as pot wears of or even when on it i can go to the gym i can work like a bastard if i have to ect .Thats the thing that non stoners dont understand , its far less impacting and damaging on the system than any other drug including panadol . Thats the trouble with one of your other comments if you say to him when youve straightened him out do you like being straight or isnt it good hel probably think and say fuck no id rather be stoned , so your not gona win with that point ;and the locking in a room thing would probably turn the most passive of hippis into a pyschcotic maniac who seeks vengence and then once that happened would all the do gooders get up and say SEE "look what pot does to people " ??

[HighRising]

Dude, it's not the pot, it's something else. There are other problems in his life that see him keep returning to his habitual, destructive use of a drug. Telling him to quit smoking isn't really gunna help.

It sounds to me more like he's depressed and on his up moods he feels fine and doesn't want to smoke because he feels good enough without it. But on his down turns he gets down and self destructive, and smoking weed, not working are all part of that self destruction. The story reminds me too much of myself.

 

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, your bro needs your support and it's awesome that you care enough about him to try and get help. I imagine when he gets back on his feet he will either never want to smoke because it reminds him of the sad times, or he will be perfectly happy to have a quiet smoke and think about the great place he is in now.

 

But yeah, it will be something more deep seated and personal than just smoking weed I reckon. He's probably just unhappy with his life and the direction it's going in, maybe regrets things he's done too much and can't get over it

Edited February 17, 2006 by HighRising

[dsyfer]

drive round pick him up lock him in a room to detox then take him to work

this is another righteous way.

 

getting clean fixes the immediate problem

thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And causes so many more down the track.

 

He will hit it twice as hard next time if you do this

 

Not to mention it is actually illegal, and he would have grounds to have you and anyone involved charged.

[naturalmystic]

A potsmoker having someone charged its almost unethical :scratchin , strange balance , yeh i have a thing about the law is that like us there a subculture , but there on the other side of that coin . I also think why should we be born to work and have 2.3 kids or any at all and pay of a house ??? is that gods way , to be tied down or to be moulded in that fashoin that society has us like puppets on a string , i dont think so > you can get tied down to material values and how society would portray us , but its the same society thats fucking us over with these pot laws and our freedom to use a herb that the good lord provides . My own take on this guy and anyother is that we need to be more human and treat people with respect , whats his worst crime ? that he dosent fit in where youd have him living his life as a stereo type doin all the things that society would have him do or that he acts like a goat? , if he acted how society would portray him he wouldnt be himself hed be just like all the other clones , i know im getting of track but our society is wrong its fucking up our planet , its making us into plastic consumers who cant live without money or petrol , you and anyone else are better of smoking more pot and go and live of the land grow herb be happy smoke your selves into oblivion , breath the fresh air of your new found freedom . The answers are in the smoke maybe thats what your bros doin dude searchin ??

[sasquatch]

Yeah, i know there are situations where doing a lockdown is worth a try and that this is not one of them. Perhaps a strongly worded coax, but not physical. As you said, its not smack and he doesnt steal and is a good person, and its not life threatening.

 

I was merely broadening the context and the point was more along the lines that passively protesting/understanding the self destruction of another is nice and understanding and one way to do things, but also taking an active no bullshit line, being clear and setting clear boundaries is another...(super nanny ha ha)

Consider the disgusting behaviour and abuse that many 'problem children' subject their calm and understanding relatives to and you yourself may understand that intervening in a more aggressive style could easily be considered the lesser evil.

We arent always talking about someone who is off living their life independently but sometimes they are heavily involved and reliant upon the family that they are amongst.

 

I guess we could also broaden the point that its not just pot but more like a complete bender, alcohol, e's, weed etc.

 

When you are a part of their life, and will be the one buying their food (again), and the one paying their rent (again), and the one trying to build their self esteem (again), and then the one watching them bunker down into a heavy stone or drink for a few weeks watching barney surface and become abusive towards you (again) it can easily be construed as your business, especially when you see them clearly blowing out, which clearly leads to under the bridge or reliance, (again).

 

And you know its their personal issues, but whenever they come to the forefront, with pressure of whatever kind, they slide again, and appear to be having a very hard time and not coping with anything.

 

So how indulgent does a supporting relative become, and how self indulgent is the supportee stoner being sliding into the warmth of a bong, losing their job and borrowing your car again and cleaning out their pensioner mothers food cupboards? If the relative simply stops supporting do they go and live under a bridge or do they realise that hey, i cant smoke like this for a week cause i cant do my job and that means no food and no...

 

It just seems that when he's not smoking he holds together his own, but when he gets pressured he retreats into smoke and reliance upon others, others who care enough to support and wear the abuse.

And thus the pattern.

 

The crime isnt not fitting in, I see no crime. Its more about somebody being self destructive. Noone cares about his job, they only care that he is a barney on certain drugs and effects people around him through abusive behaviour of one form or another and that he thrives when off them. And when you see clearly that something is making things harder you try and help them to see it too. Plain and simple.

 

In my opinion it is this western society and its methods and rules and bullshit and pressures which is responsible for so many of our troubles. And i agree that support and understanding is far more important then seeking and destroying behavior or attitudes. And also it is probably a far more effective treatment than any other conventional forms of intervention as, like i said, the problem lies inherently within this society and its screwed up values, which is somewhat remedyless.

I read an old bush stories book about people in the early 1900's and gee life sounded pleasant. Not for the aboriginals mind you (disgraceful), but for the average man doing his thing. I myself have removed myself from as much of this society as possible, i live in a national park, have no tv, no radio, do not read newspapers, and do not converse about current events or politics or much at all, its all full of so much crap and you talk yourself in circles coming back to nothing except personal opinion which is completely flawed due to bias and misinformation and ego's and all that.

It does make a difference my friends, no media, a good place to start if you find yourself getting upset over our culture.

 

I get live and let live but I also want to protect others, my mother for example. Its a nasty loop, and hard to find a way in.

 

Thanks for all the heads up, im kind of coming full circle back to where ive always been which is unconditional support. Its probably more effective to work towards toughening up both myself and the mother to say no to him for food and money etc, more like damage control in a controllable environment...

Edited February 17, 2006 by sasquatch

[Pickle]

From what you are saying you and your family are part of the problem. He should be paying his own rent and buying his own food. You are right, boundaries need to be set, you can't set his boundaries but you can set your own and not supporting his bad budgeting and feeding him and paying his rent while he spends all his money on drugs is not helping him. Sure let him come to sunday dinner but don't fill his cupboard.

 

You can be there for him but only so far and he needs to understand that. It will be a problem because he has already set the terms of your relationship and it's up to you to stop being used by him, he will fight against it but that is more a dominance struggle between you and him than a drug problem. If needed change the locks on your mums house.

 

To be honest he sounds like he has a bigger problem than pot if he is this far off the rails.