Co2 via the roots!

[jackfrost]

Hey all

 

was surfing the net and came across this product

 

http://www.nomercy.nl/en/framesets/fs-prod-co2tab.html

 

it states that it can use a tablet to deliver co2 via the roots. If these work it will make co2 available to everyone not just commerical growers.

 

The cost saving could be huge, no AC/computers/regulators or gas bottles required.

 

Was allways of the theory that plants could not uptake co2 via roots only the leaves - look like i could be wrong.

 

Jack

[F420]

Yea, it does work too mate.

I used to use a coke bottle with a air stone on the end with the usual yeast mix and, I did notice a faster growth.

[WantDaChronic]

i have seen a product that is like that but comes in powder form in a small bucket...you were meant to add it during the vege cycle once a week or something but the lady i talked to at the hydro shop about it said it will definately increase your yield and generally give u much larger buds :thumbsup

 

only reason i remember is because when she said buds, she said oops, tomatoes

[jackfrost]

they had the example of a 3 week root growth as follows

 

with and without

[Luke Skywalker]

looks like the "without" if that's the one on the right, is better, although it would depend on the available factors like how many plants were tested. The individual difference could be related more to the cuttings themselves rather than the presence of co2 in the tank.

 

I personally think they're a crock of shit. They sent me a pile of stuff ages ago. Fact is, the roots take in oxygen, not co2. If there is an effect it would be to acidfy the nutrient solution, perhaps other things are added to the tablets too... Then you may also starve the root zone of oxygen, particularly if you've got a fizzing tablet of co2 in the tank.

 

Sorry, just don't like em. Their material was written in "hydro-ese".

[jackfrost]

hey luke

 

i got the above picture around the wrong way, sorry mate

 

Jack

[F420]

cut and paste job for ya, could make more sense.

Like anything, try it and see if it works for you. It may make a huge difference.

 

 

Fake or "wonderpill"?

 

The past Highlife reported a lot about growing, with help of CO2. In those articles mainly was spoken about the (expensive) equipment that is needed to regulate de CO2 input and quantity. Since last year there are tabs (big effervescent tablets) - of which the Dutch company 'No Mercy' has the agency - on the market. These tabs are solved in the nutrition-water and the plant absorbs the CO2 via the roots. But can a ground-plant also absorb CO2 via the roots? Many people have asked themselves. The ones that use the Internet: the message-board of cannabis.com was full of different opinions and theories. But nobody seems to have a clear answer now, so we took the time to speak to the company No Mercy.

 

 

The first question is off course: Do plants absorb CO2 via the roots?

No Mercy: "Sure. Measure in the dark hours your medium and you will find CO2 that is eliminated by the plant when the synthesis stopped. Then measure again if the light is turned on for about half an hour, so when there is synthesis again, and you will notice that the eliminated CO2 is lost. Nobody until now has found a real explanation for the fact that the roots absorb CO2. The developer of the basis-tab for ponds thinks that due to the unique composition and effects of the tabs, the plant absorbs the CO2 with the water. As yet we have big questions at a product that is proving itself. But the results are clearly visible and a growing-speed of 30% is no exceptional matter."

 

You say that the tabs actually were used in ponds and aquariums. How did you found out it worked at cannabis?

"The effects of the CO2 by adding it into the water is created by coincidence. We satisfactory used for several years the Bacterial of Velda to optimise the grow-medium. Then we bought in a rashly mood a pot of CO2-tabs and we were very surprised about the effect. Could this be a coincidence? But the result was repeated in the next crops. But because of the high growing speed we quickly discovered a lack of magnesium, what was easily solved by adding magnesiumsulphate. The next step was informing the producer the unique effects of their product for our world."

 

''Velda-Enschede, the producer of CO2-tabs for ponds, was aware for some years of the fact that CO2 can be given to the roots. But he did not do anything with this knowledge because they, in those days, only concentrated on water-plants."

 

 

"You can test it if you happen to have a aquarium or a bowl met goldfish. Put a piece of the tab into the aquarium and you will be surprised how the roots will develop."

 

 

"Together we deepened ourselves in the effects of this miracle-pill. With all unclear explanations about the effects, but with a clearly visible result, the pond-tab has been made ready for the cannabis market. A percentage magnesium-sulphate was added to realise a faster evaporation of the CO2 to the water than the pond-tab. 'In fact we talk about difficult matters and not all the answers are found. And the question is: will it be useful to look for an explanation? Maybe we have to take the magical effects of the CO2-tabs for what it is and be glad that we can profit of the results."

 

Can you use the tabs with all the plants? Do they have side-effects?

"I think it is obvious that CO2-tabs have an optimal effects if you offer it to healthy plants, that are grown with a right pH and EC. By adding CO2 to the water the pH-value decreases, what is stabilising after a while. Like offering CO2 into the air, the offering of CO2 in the nutrition-water is also a matter of doing this in the daytime, preferably if the lights are just turned on. The roots do also not absorb if there is no photosynthesis."

 

This article appeared originally in Highlife-magazine of februari/march 2000.

 

 

In nature the same thing happens, but there the plant can also absorb CO2 from its soil! Sounds bizarre? Well… maybe this seems bizarre, but when we look at natural soils we find higher concentrations of CO2, even up to 1-2%!!! Many plants have mechanisms to absorb and transport CO2 from the roots to the shoot (and leaves), thus resolving the problem of CO2-shortage near the leaves!

 

 

http://www.nomercy.nl/en/framesets/fs-prod-co2tab.html

[mace]

Don't mean to step on anybodies toes,

 

but i don't believe it.

 

CO2 reacts with water to soda (CO2 + H2O --> HCO3- + H+ ), and water can react with a shitload of it ( 782ml per liter for CO2, as opposed to O2 with only 29,4ml per liter at 24C, one of the reasons the atmosphere only has about 0.3% CO2 )... so, by pumping air into your res, all the CO2 in the air will be reacting with the water to soda (in pure water it can pull the pH down to 5.4) unless its saturated, which is bad, because it leaves "less space" for the really nessecary O2 to dissolve.

 

Whats the point with the tabletts? Can't say for sure, but if they do have a positive effect, than i'd say its due to other ingridients than the CO2.

 

And as luke said, roots "breathe" oxygen and leafes "breathe" CO2.

 

Peace,

 

mace

[jackfrost]

found some more info on the site :

 

Jack

 

 

 

On the effects and the uptake of CO2 by plant roots

 

Plants breathe. Although this sounds strange, they do:

 

A little summary on the plant life cycle, especially the photosynthesis:

The plant uses the energy from the light to assimilate it’s own sugars to create all it’s structures (like stems, flowers and … resin!). In a complicated reaction in which H2O (water) and CO2 (carbon dioxide) are combined, under the influence of light, it creates these sugars by the combination. When plants get enough light and their nutrients are abundant too, other factors get limiting… With only 0,03% CO2 in the air this gas becomes quite a limiting factor in the growing process of the plant!

 

In nature the same thing happens, but there the plant can also absorb CO2 from its soil! Sounds bizarre? Well… maybe this seems bizarre, but when we look at natural soils we find higher concentrations of CO2, even up to 1-2%!!! Many plants have mechanisms to absorb and transport CO2 from the roots to the shoot (and leaves), thus resolving the problem of CO2-shortage near the leaves!

 

 

 

“How come we don’t find any literature on CO2-uptake by the roots???”

 

In the last few decades specialized CO2-devices have been developed to augment the CO2-concentration for the above-ground parts of the plants. General consensus was that plants take up CO2 most effectively with their leaves. It is true that in their leaves there are specialized structures (stomata), which regulate the gas-exchange of the plant. When the CO2-concentration augments near these stomata the plant has to do ‘less effort’ in getting the CO2 inside the plant. This results in, for example, an augmentation of biomass, due to ‘more photosynthesis’. Other effect, that can be seen, is that the plant loses less water because the stomata can be more closed, this is why the plant can stand higher temperatures when it receives enough CO2!

In the beginning of CO2-nutrition, it was thought to be impossible to augment the CO2-concentration aboveground because greenhouses were less ‘closed’ and less regulated, but also because lot of crops were grown outside. This was the main reason to investigate the effects of CO2-nutrition near the roots in those days. Most articles regarding this subject date from 1920 to the late 1970’s. After this period CO2-nutrition aboveground gained popularity, because the yield-gains were much higher!

 

“Now, what can these ‘old’ articles learn us?”

 

Most important findings were that:

 

 

A. the effects of 12-hours CO2 treatment after 3 weeks

B. after 6 weeks

Control-plants on the left, CO2 treated plants on the right

“The response of plants to high concentrations of CO2 depends on the species. Potato plants, for example are particularly well suited to CO2 enrichment of the root zone.” [4]

 

“It has been shown that the amount of CO2 absorbed by the roots was as much as 25 % of that taken up from the atmosphere by the leaves. Translocation only takes place during the light period and parallels the increase in transpiration rates. [4]

 

In potatoes treated with high concentrations in the soil 18% of the incorporated CO2 has been shown to be taken up by the roots.” [2,3]

 

”The introduction of soluble carbonates introduced into the soil together with fertilizers increased the yield of several crops by up to 18%.

Addition of 30 or 50 kg of CO2 per hectare, supplied as ammonium carbonate, increased the yield of sugar beets 7 and 16% in two trials.” [2, 6]

 

“Even at normal concentrations of CO2 (0,028%) small amounts of carbon were derived from CO2, taken up by the roots of Xanthium plants.” [3]

 

“In an experiment in which potatoes were treated with CO2 for 12 hours and the effects were evaluated at 2, 4 and 6 days, there was a progressive increase in the total plant dry weight from 2 to 6 days. The concentration of several organic acids (malic and citric acid) increased in proportion to the increase in total dry weight, indicating an increase in carbon fixation by CO2-treated plants.

Treatment with CO2 even has its effect for such a short period of time.” [4]

 

“It has been demonstrated that HCO3- was taken up by the roots. The identified products of fixation are malic, citric, aspartic and glutamic acids, serine, aspargine, glutamine, and tyrosine.” [2]

 

“The fixation of CO2 by plant root takes place through phosphoenolpyruvate carboxylase.” [5]

 

“The uptake of C14O2 by the roots of intact bean seedlings has been shown in an experiment with 18 hours of exposure in the light. Most of the radioactivity was in the stems, indicating that the fixation products were translocated upwards.” [2]

 

“With low pH (4-5) higher CO2-concentration in solution give growth-reduction of roots.” [1]

 

“The necessity of aeration arises only because of the inadequate rate of transfer of gases by diffusion.” [1]

 

Literature:

 

[1] Erickson, J. 1948. Growth of tomato roots as influenced by oxygen in the nutrient solution. American journal of botany. Volume 33; 551-561

 

[2] Stolwijk, J.A.J.; Thimann, K. V. 1957. On the uptake of Carbon dioxide and bicarbonate by roots, and its influence on growth. Plant physiology. Volume 32; 513-520

 

[3] Skok, J.; Chorney, W.; Broecker, W. Dec 1962. Uptake of CO2 by roots of Xanthium plants. Botanical Gazette. 118-120

 

[4] Arteca, R.N.; Poovalah, B.W.; Smith, O.E.1979. Changes in carbon fixation, tuberization, and growth induced by CO2 applications to the root zone of potato plants. Science. Volume 205; 1279-1280

 

[5] Jackson, W. A.; Coleman, N. T. 1959. Fixation of carbon dioxide by plant roots through phosphoenolpyruvate carboxylase. Plant and soil XI, no1; 1-16

 

[6] Grinfeld, E. G. 1954. On the nutrition of plants with carbon dioxide through the roots. Doklady Akademii Nauk SSSR. Physiology of plants. Volume 97, No 5; 919-922

[indooraussie]

those tabs been around in one name after another for years.plants use co2 through the leaves and thats it.there full of shit trying to put a new spin on it to sell shit.yeah yeast works but it too lets co2 into the air so leaves can utilise it.roots use water,minerals,oxygen and salts bottom line.remember the old school lesson,plants breathe c02 and release oxygen through the leaves.those tablets were designed to be put in water to release co2 into atmosphere not into your nute tank.just my 2cents worth. Edited April 20, 2005 by indooraussie