Carbons No-Till Try Out

[Carbcon]

Hi all!

 

This organic no till malarkey interests me so I said I'd give it a go!

 

Mixed up a 60ish L batch earlier.

 

My mix is an experiment and was kind of a mix of what I could get at the time and some dr greenthumbs stuff.

 

It comprises of;

 

12l Brunnings Coco from Bunnings, flushed 4 times.

5l Brunnings Peat Moss

3l Scott's organic compost. Picked some wood chip out.

 

20l Scoria stone

20l Worm castings

 

I then added the following;

 

I'm taking a cup as 250ml.

 

2 cups (before grinding) of Malted 2 row Barley from brew shop.

1 cup Neem pellets ground from nobugs.

 

1 cup Kelp meal.

1 cup Alfalfa meal.

1 cup Crustacean meal.

1 cup Coconut meal.

2 cups Volcanic Rock dust.

All from Dr.Greenthumbs.

 

1 cup Dolomite lime.

1 cup Gypsum

 

I forget the exact pot sizes, the fabric ones are all a bit different. Bout 30l and 2x 15l or in that area.

 

Put em out and gave em a water. Left them low to allow future cover crops, top dressing, mulching and all that.

 

Probably leave them for a week before I set a cover crop.

So hot here at the moment, easy to kill seedlings.

 

Have a green manure mix and clovers etc coming.

 

I use boondie seeds and the seed collection for veges and flowers.

 

Fairly happy with the mix, it felt good, had a few small worms in the castings.

 

Maybe not as free draining as I thought it would be to be honest with some water pooling on surface a bit sooner that I would like but apart from that which I hope ain't a problem I'm happy enough.

 

Love to hear any of your questions or comments guys and girls as this community has greatly influenced these methods and mix.

 

Thank you all!

[itchybromusic]

first off i would have removed the scotts & replaced it with another bag or 2 of peat 

don't feel the scotts would improve on what you have , the extra peat would improve the mix 

 

not saying it's F'd & don't use it , just next time most of those bagged products from bunnings 

will generally help you to make an inferior soil mix , shit in , shit out , good is'n cheap & cheap is'n good

 

soil volume , small amounts of soil are harder to keep consistent moisture wise 

which is what your trying to do , keeping the soil moist without over watering 

 

i would suggest 15gal pots being the minimum size to go for , once again not that you can't use what you have 

in bigger pots you have more room to continually top dress meals , more compost / castings , straw ect ect

& the shear volume will help retain moisture , outdoor especially  

 

make sure you have a thick mulch layer which will help stop soil evaporation & help keep the soil mass under it

evenly moist via wicking around the pot , like putting a damp bud in a jar of really dry buds , they fairly quickly

become all the same moisture 

 

put your living mulch / cover crop in but leave room for mulch to be laid over the top to kill off the cover crop

you do this so the roots & shoots that have grown from the cover crop feed soil life when killed , the shoots 

sit on the surface making , what would be out in the forest , sort of , leaf mold  

 

in small pots i don't think the cover crop will be thick enough to stop evaporation , although having diff root systems 

calling in diff microorganisms is also of benefit , it's just a mulch layer will prob feed the pot more effectively & in turn 

feed the plant , by adding more casting & compost , as you move though the grow , will reinoculate the pot each time 

for the microorganism hit  

 

good luck with it mate 

don't forget to put some thought into IPM plan , integrated pest management 

[itchybromusic]

if you checkout brownguy420 on youtube he started his outdoor pots ( 400-500gal ) with clover 

then at some point in plant growth , he killed the cover crop , topping it with a thick layer of hay 

i think he used , but people sometimes call hay straw & v a v , they are 2 diff things 

 

example , pea straw is really pea hay , straw , like barley straw is used for bedding = material has 

no nutrient value , all nutrients in the plant went in to making it's seed for harvest , hay is chopped 

B4 making seed for harvest , there for left full of nutrients & used as feed for animals not bedding 

 

straw = no nutes but full of lignin which fungi feed on 

hay = full of nutrients to feed soil life & plant 

[Carbcon]

Thanks itchy!

 

I have just added a top layer of lucerne\alfalfa hay on top, maybe 40mm.

Gave them another water too.

 

Hear you on the straw\hay thing. I agree the term is mixed up a lot.

 

Ya brownguy420 is good. So I don't have have a cover crop in yet. Want to let it sit for a lil bit and hay on top now to help with keeping it moist etc.

 

This will settle a bit in a few weeks but should I only add enough mulch now that will break down enough to allow a seed to strike or can I remove some hay mulch in a week or whatever to allow cover crop to grow?

 

Hope I'm explaining this correctly.

I have added a thick layer now.

 

 

With regard to the IPM. So I have Neem in there so step one I'm guessing.

At this stage, with these 3 pots what else can I be looking at?

 

I'm gathering dead leaves, mainly iron bark, stringy bark and gum. Will find a non windy spot or a hole in ground and start stockpiling. I heard hardwood is good,

Where exactly at at what point would you add black leaf mold?

 

I hear you on the pot size. Look I realise that I'm at the small end. I also know very well the pitfalls of small container size especially with regard to limiting the plant and watering the fucker every 5 mins!

 

Its part logistics, part lazy, part cheap and trying to use what I have.

I needed to get the ball rolling, I need the data, good or bad. Big pot or small.

Also, I realise this is a canna site but these 3 pots may not run canna or may be added to a larger hole as you mentioned.

 

They were nice and moist before the mulch but only had 5-6 hrs sun.

 

Back to mix. Bagged stuff, I will get some spagnum, I got heaps of castings, and some Scott's potting mix and the mentioned Scott's pure organic compost.

I can see you cringing right now but I'm planning another mix with no Coco or peat moss and using a mix of both Scott's................

 

.......I hope I haven't lost ya itchy...............

[Grape_Sized_Heads]

Keen to learn more on no till, will be super interested to hear how you go. You're outdoors I assume? I'm been thinking bout trying no till indoors. Anyway thanks for posting.

[itchybromusic]

do you have to have a cover crop in , well , having roots growing in a re-usable no till soil at all times is a good thing 

most no tillers plant a lill off center & have a clone ready to go straight in beside the stump after chopping one down 

 

BG420 uses  clover as his living mulch , this is a very low growing cover crop , will never be tall enough to compete 

with the main plant he's trying to grow , his cover crop outdoors was in quite early & was well established B4 

he put any plants in , can't remember exactly what he did but at some point a plant got put in & the cover crop 

was covered with hay , this will kill the majority of the clover , for good reason , clover is a N fixer , by killing it 

you release the N the plant has been storing on/in it's root system 

 

i prefer a mixed cover crop for diversity however this means you'll have plants that could grow & compete with 

your main plant , this needs some management , the idea would be the same as BG420 , grow the cover crop 

don't let it get to big , chop & drop on the soil surface put a plant in & cover with straw  

 

plant cover crop first , then at the same time chop it , plant your plant & mulch over the top 

 

yep neem meal/cake or pellets are part of your ipm , which i continue to top dress lill bits regularly 

but it will also have nutrient value , npk ect ect 

 

at this point you just want life in the pot , worms ect & root systems , beneficial life is what you need most at the 

start of a soil mix , given normal conditions beneficial's out compete the bad guys 100% of the time , when conditions

change like a plant being over watered , this is when the bad guys can take hold as the beneficial's struggle to survive

in those conditions  

 

neem meal/cake/pellets & worm castings top dressed are both part of your IPM , like most things used in no till , inputs often have more 

that just the one use 

 

if gathering stuff now , make a compost of them , you prob get more benefit from the compost they will make in months to come 

than the benefit of top dressing them now in a small pot , each time you top dress castings or compost you reinoculate the pot 

& if making your own compost then your reinoculating with the locals , indigneouse microorganisms  

 

ipm for the top part of the plant i use essential oils like neem , rosemary , thyme , peppermint , i emulsify them with aloe vera & potassium silicate 

plants don't like oils very much but they will love the aloe & silica , both build health & aloe triggers something call SAR Systemic Acquired Resistance

 

there is never one way to do things , experimentation is good just need to be careful your not setting yourself up for failure 

def no probs in growing other plants in the pots , as said already , roots roots & more roots 

 

you can choose to use what ever you wish bagged or not , my understanding is bagged soil/compost go's though a process of killing any poss bad 

microorganisms that could harm human health , the process does not discriminate between microorganisms good or bad , all dead 

this defeats the purpose of using compost & lays to bare the process used to make compost if they need to zap it to make safe , there should be no

reason in a well made compost for there to be anything in any major numbers to harm you , good guys out compete 100% of the time in normal conditions 

 

might come off a bit like do as i say , i hope not , cause not my intention , i'd prefer you said this guys full of shit & went & looked for yourself 

we can all read the same story & take something a lill diff away , better to trust yourself than some dude on the net 

[Carbcon]

Grape sized heads, yep, outside . Thanks. Just having a play.

 

If it fails, well as long as I can figure out what went wrong I don't mind.

 

Appreciate all the info as usual itchy. Keep it coming!!

 

I made another mix. Out of shit that I have right here right now.

 

The lessons learned here will all help.

More than anything I'm really enjoying mixing this stuff up and seeing how they go. Good bad or indifferent. It's good for the soul.

 

So, 20l castings, Scoria and Scott's organic compost.

 

Same amendment mix.

 

52l black plastic pot.

 

Bit of hay at bottom to filter holes a bit cos were bigger than the scoria.

Then some excess scoria on top.

Them fill with mix.

Cover crop seeds.

Cover with soil.

Apply hay mulch.

 

Did a green 32l or something too. More like 40ish in black pot and 20ish in green.

 

Did hay at end of green pot too but didn't have spare scoria to give it some extra of that near end of pot like the black one.

 

Watered and put in nice shady spot.

 

Green manure mix has lots of grains.

 

Have clover I may chuck in too when I get it, which could be tomorrow, in which case I think I will get a cover crop going asap in the fabric pots.

 

Hope everybody has had a good weekend!

[itchybromusic]

just my opinion on extra drainage & to stop the scoria coming out the holes 

adding drainage takes away soil / food , i'd rather have more soil /food considering

if the mix was made with 1/3 peat or coco = good air to water ratio & 1/3 scoria , the mix

will have all the air it needs & what comes out the drain holes in the pot is minimal

 

adding scoria to the top , again i'd rather be adding food in the way of a mulch layer for soil life to consume 

 

go for it mate these are just my opinions 

[Carbcon]

Appreciate that mate.

Im just kinda making it up as I go in some areas.....

 

All practice for the white spagnum\biochar\rice hulls spec mix in the near future.

 

Need some mycorrhizal back in my life too.

 

Any benefit to dusting roots at transplant with ground malted barley?

[itchybromusic]

no benefit to MBP on roots 

aloe & kelp are both root promoting 

better to water in transplant with aloe & kelp 

 

you can look at great white for mycorizal inoculation 

& if real keen Modern Microbes = made for canna 

but you'll need to import https://www.modernmicrobes.com/NewStore/