ph

[MARTYR]

Its me again, what do u guys recomend the ph be set at in a forty litre satalite setup, running two plants in bloom at 12/12 . (oh and its a cubboard setup, runnin one 600 watt)

my ph is 6.0 and have heard that it should be around 5.5 to 6.3 .

and if its correct and ph rises up what is the diloution rate to add to lets say 40ltrs, ph 6.0 and want to reduce to say 5.5,

regards marty

[F420]

MJ likes it to be ideal of 5.8 but between 5.5 and 6.3 is good.

its impossible without computerised dosing equipment to have it perfect all the time, so Just aim between 5.5 and 6.5 and your ok.

really for the sakes of the Iron in the mix it should stay under 6.

as far as changing it what I do is add a half a capful for every point, but it depends on what you use as to how much you use etc.

 

 

 

Q: What does pH have to do with mixing hydroponic nutrient solutions?

A: The plants absorb nutrients and oxygen through the roots. In order for the nutrients to be absorbed by the plant, there needs to be a "hole" or receptor for the specific nutrient with an opposite charge. Potassium is a Basic Metal with an M(1+) valence; Calcium and Magnesium are Basic Earth Metals with M(2+) valences.

Iron, Manganese, Zinc, and Copper are metals usually found in compounds with M- valences. Boron is a Metalloid which usually has a negetive valence.

 

 

Q: What are you talking about?

A: If the pH is high, Potassium, Magnesium, and Calcium are most easily absorbed; if the pH is low, Iron, Manganese, Zinc, and Copper are more easily absorbed. Different nutrients are absorbed best at different pH levels. When you mix up a hydroponic nutrient solution, keeping the pH level in the 6.0 to 6.5 range makes sure that all the nutrients can be absorbed. If the pH floats up too high or down too low some nutrients can be "locked out". pH problems don't show up as pH problems, they show up as nutrient deficiencies.

 

Q: How do I keep the pH at 6.0 to 6.5?.

 

A: The pH is always changing, so you should measure it at least once a day. The most common way is to use a liquid kit to measure. There is a small vial which you dip into the nutrient solution and fill up halfway. Then you add three drops of the tester solution, put the cap on the vial, and shake it a bit. The liquid in the vial changes color. Now, take the color of the vial and compare it to the color chart that comes in the kit. Try to use as close to natural light as you can because the colors given off by grow lights can throw off how the colors look

 

Q: What if it's too high or too low?

A: There are bottles of pH UP and pH DOWN that you can use to adjust the solution. Depending on the size of the nutrient tank, it can take at least a half hour to three hours for the tank to fully circulate any adjustment. So after you add adjusting solution, you really have to wait before you test again to get an accurate reading.

 

Q: What if I test right away?

 

A: You will drive yourself nuts. The readings will never be close to each other twice in a row.

 

Q: Why can't I just use vinegar or battery acid to adjust the solution?

 

A: It's America, you can do anything you want.

 

Q: Will anything bad happen?

 

A: Probably nothing very bad, but you can do a whole lot better. Vinegar breaks down pretty fast and unevenly, so you will be adjusting a lot and your testing may be inconsistent. Battery acid is made for batteries, it is Hydro Chloric Acid which breaks down into Chlorine compounds and Hydrogen ions. The strength is inconsistent, and usually at a very strong concentration, but it breaks down at an even rate. If you don't have anything else--fine. But you can make your life a lot easier.

 

Q: Why does the solution keep changing?

 

A: When the plants are growing, they pull nutrients out of the solution. More specifically, they pull the nutrient compounds apart into charged ions and absorb these ions into the plants. The stuff that stays in the nutrient solution eventually becomes the nutrient solution. These left over ions can change the pH. A positively charged ion is called a "cation", while a negetively charged ion is called an "anion".

 

Q: How do they change it?

 

A: Take Nitrogen, for example. Nitrogen is considered the biggest fuel for growth. Most good nutrient mixes use both a form of Ammonia and also Nitrate compounds. Ammonia floats around as either three or four Hydrogen atoms connected to one Nitrogen. (NH3 or NH4+) So when the Nitrogen is sucked off by the plant it leaves 3 or 4 Hydrogen ions floating around in the solution.

Conversely, when the Nitrogen is sucked off a Nitrate (NO3-, NOH, etc.), the result is OH- anions floating around the solution.

 

Q: So when the Nitrogen is used, it drives the pH in different directions?

 

A: You got it. When an H+ cation combines with an OH- anion, the result is H2O or water--stable and neutral. Good quality nutrient solutions use both ammonia forms of Nitrogen and nitrate forms of Nitrogen, like Calcium Nitrate for example. As the Nitrogen is absorbed by the plants, the leftovers balance each other out somewhat. This is why it's a good idea to use well made, quality nutrients sold by a reputable webstore.

 

http://www.3rlighting.com/tutorial/nutrients/pH2.html

[MARTYR]

Thanx, ferengi420.

the state i live in the ph is high (tap water) around 7.7 -8.8 so i only use ph down. The product i use comes from a aquarium shop

it is called aquamaster ph down in a powder form , and no you cant snort it coz i tried and was in hospital for a week

ive been using a tip of a teaspoon to reduce my ph thinking that i shouldnt use to much ,but apparently ive been under dosing .

half a cap per 0.1 point , is absalutely perfect no more tips of a teaspoons for me . ill use the other end .

thanks mate

regards bloominthick

[F420]

make sure you use a ph tester that is reliable, like a liquid one.

 

The stuff I use is from a hydro shop and called ph down ,

whats the chemical that they use in that aquarium stuff(im thinking it could cause problems??)

[EMP]

ya i use ph up and ph down too, bought from bunnings in the hydro section.

 

the ph tester i use is for testing aquarium s, but ph is ph right?

[MARTYR]

Ok the active Constituent: 1000g/kg Sodium Phosphate-Monobasic

I figured if it was ok for fish, it was ok for my girls.

[Luke Skywalker]

Don't use products designed for fish, particularly ph testing equipment. They frequently only use indicator solutions which will show a maximum of 2 ph levels range. They usually don't tell you whether it's below 6 or above 8, this is because the fish can't stand anything outside these ranges, so there's no point in getting an accurate reading for 5... ya know?

 

So get a good ph indicator solution, flairform and canna both make some, they're less than 10 bucks and last forever. I personally prefer the flairform ones, but the canna's are for all intents and purposes the same I think.

 

As to the ph up and down, I would be careful about using something designed for fish in this as well. The needs of plants and fish aren't the same, much as we'd like to think they are. pH up and down, made by many various companies, should contain Phosphoric or Nitric acid. Most hobby pH downs for hydro are Phosphoric, as it's a little safer to use than Nitric, although commercial installations use Nitric acids when formulating vegetative nutrients for large food crops, it's not really necessary to worry about it.

 

I'd say pick up the 5 dollar bottle of ph down, it'll be worth it. Your powder one may be okay, but I'd say it'd be better not to risk it if you can afford not to. And at 5 bucks, who can't?

[MARTYR]

well i would never of know that, thanx mate, i will be down my local hydro shop first thing in the morning.

i also use a liquid ph tester from the pet shop, which indicates three levels in yellow, green and blue. I also have a eutech ph meter witch i use in conjunction with the liquid test , seems pretty close.

 

THANX AGAIN LUKE MY THE INFO KEEP COMMING, (Oh and also the force luke)

hey im new im aloud to use it once

[Luke Skywalker]

No worries mate. Just happy to help out. It's a small investment in the right tools that can make all the difference between a crap and a great crop.

 

BTW, I keep my pH in the nutrient tank at about 5.5 or a little lower or above. I can maintain a fairly steady level by keeping the fresh water in my feeder tank at about pH 4.5 or so, quite substantially lower. When this mixes after a feeding with the nutrient tank water through the float valve, it's usually enough to offset the change in the pH through the week.

 

Course, it never keeps it totally stable, but it certainly helps out. And I don't need to constantly adjust daily to get a good result.