phillips 315w LEC with D-Papillon reflector

[forgetiwashere]

removal of ; flippant, frivolous whimsical comment

I really wish I got to read it. It sounds fantastic

[FrankWills]

Been a while...  good to see this place is still going.

 

The lamps featured herein all LACK full or near full spectrum in the UV/Actinic-Blue spectrum.  That's the one which fully activates the resin as if it were grown outdoors under direct Sun.  The Red and far Red take care of  stalk & flower production, not the full activation of the resin.

 

If someone could get Gavita to produce 1,000 to 1,500W plasmas, they'd be doing the community a real favour.  But 300W doesn't quite cut it from a bopper's or heavy personal user's perspective.

 

Hope the attachment helps.

 

Cheers.

 

 

[obliterated]

Been a while...  good to see this place is still going.

 

The lamps featured herein all LACK full or near full spectrum in the UV/Actinic-Blue spectrum.  That's the one which fully activates the resin as if it were grown outdoors under direct Sun.  The Red and far Red take care of  stalk & flower production, not the full activation of the resin.

 

If someone could get Gavita to produce 1,000 to 1,500W plasmas, they'd be doing the community a real favour.  But 300W doesn't quite cut it from a bopper's or heavy personal user's perspective.

 

Hope the attachment helps.

 

Cheers.

 

Interesting information Frank,

 

I think the interesting factor of the 315w's is that they offer a CMH with a bit more of a yellow/red spike to keep CMH quality spectrum with a little yield boost.

1.90 umol per watt seems to be the current standard at the moment, so nothing special there.

 

Of the Sunmaster bulb and the Solistek bulb.... it seems the Solistek bulb is the winning spectrum for resin production?

 

I have to admit that my experiences with "finishing bulbs" have not been great... cloudy to amber far too quick for my liking.

 

Have you had any experience with the new Solistek 10K bulbs you could share?

 

I think 2x 1000w Greenpower DE's with a ST 10k in the middle might do well...

 

Peace!

 

 

 

[pegz]

I tried a Sunmaster 10k MH but it didn't fire off my Nanolux ballast.

Edited May 28, 2014 by pegz

[FrankWills]

When it comes to small grows, ie, up to 1m2, cupboards, tower PCs, etc, those 315's IMO are an outstanding little unit.  Crying shame they stopped producing the 400's.  But if I were doing a small grow that warranted me not using much more than 300-500W, I'd be very tempted to go for one of those 315s, and 1, preferably 2, "Philips MASTER SDW-T 100W/825 PG12-1 OEM 1SL".  They would complement the 315's spectrum beautifully... adding heaps of low-to-mid yellow/amber, and plenty of red and very far red to the existing lumpy violet/blue spectrum of the 315s.  Same mob sells the 100's as does the 315s (Advance).

 

Philips MASTER SDW-T 100W/825 PG12-1 OEM 1SL spectral output, attached.

 

And yes, I cannot find a MORE UV heavy output lamp than Solis Tek's 10K beauty.  It is a gem IMO.

 

The Solis Tek is the winning part of the spectrum for fully activating the resin, whereas the Nova's greatly assist/add to the spectrum’s ability in producing LARGER yields of MORE resin laden buds.  Keep in mind that the blue/UV aspect of the spectrum does very little in making a plant produce flowers profusely.  I've found it much more the yellow/amber part of the spectrum which does that, along with producing MORE stalks, i.e., elongates the nodes.  And it’s the RED that increases the AMOUNT of resin.  Hence so many LED growers screaming there’s more reason.  Yes more than HPS, not more than plain MH, and certainly NOT fully realized resin.   So when you have lots of UV/Blue, Yellow, Red and far Red, i.e., a proper FULL spectrum, then what you’re effectively looking at is a small piece of the Sun in your cab.  That is a far better way to ALL ROUND rather than just HPS alone, which has been the way throughout the community since the inception of "grow" lights.

 

I can say without any hesitation that I always got denser/heavier more solid buds using a decent 4000K MH than I ever got with the best of HPSs.  More compact plants, more resin and more dense buds, and most important from the purists perspective - MORE activated resin, i.e., MORE POTENT buds. 

 

For instance: try using a Sylvania BT56 4000k ALL BY ITSELF, and do a side by side grow in another room using the best HPS Gavita has to offer.  Same medium/strain/ferts, etc all.  The Sylvania will seem to produce less yield when looking at the crop before harvest... till you dry it all and weigh it up to your surprise.  The BT56/MH buds will be MORE dense and have MORE resin on them without doubt, i.e., MORE weight/yield.  Then come the smoke test... I wager you'd will leave the HPS grown buds till last.  You cannot beat a BALANCED spectrum, it's that simple.  That’s what the Sun produces, flat bar.

 

I have grown using ONLY the Solis tek bulb, before I discovered the spectral graph of the Novas.  Again, less yield weight than a good HPS, badly lacking in fact, and less weight than a BT56.  But the buds... the smoke... is superior to both the BT56 and the HPS, more so the latter. 

 

To cut to the chase... I do not bop, I grow for pleasure, have done so now for over 40 years... so I will never again use a HPS.  I won't sacrifice quantity for quality, especially when there are better options available for producing both (i.e., good cheap readily available 4000K MH's).

 

As for the 3 lamp mix you seek; it depends on what you're after.

 

For maximum yield with very decent potency (3/4 realized resin)... I'd choose 3 BT56s with a good ballast and an excellent reflector (can't go past "Super Sun 2" with 8" duct - better than Magnum XXXL (too large a footprint for small areas) and better than an OG Hood (too small a footprint for large areas)), and MUCH better than anything else out there, irrespective of its footprint. But you have to buy them from OS.

 

If we can use up to 3,000W in a minimum of 2mx2mx2.3m (JungleRoom or Gorilla tent) area, then:

 

-  For a very big yield (600-750g/m2, strain dependant) with very good potency (3/4 realized resin) - 3 x BT56 1000W 4000K MH.

 

-  For a big yield (500-600g/m2, strain dependant) with normal potency (1/2 realized resin) - 3 x Gavita 1000W DE's.

 

-  For a big yield (500-600g/m2) with exceptional potency (fully realized resin) and low setup costs - 1 Solis + 1 Full Nova + 1 BT56.

 

-  For a big yield (500-600g/m2) with exceptional potency (fully realized resin) without budget restrictions - 3 x Gavita 300 ELP + 1 Solis + 1 Full Nova.

 

-  For an outstanding yield (600-850g/m2) with very good potency (<3/4 realized resin) without budget restrictions - 2 x Gavita 300 ELP 42.01 + 2 x Gavita 300 ELP 42.02 + 1 'Solis 1000W in the middle of the grow-area with a good wide footprint reflector (Magnum XXXL 8")'... placing the 42.01's and 42.02's opposed on the diagonals of the room, and all 4 fittings having the inner-most edge (to the centre of the room) of their reflector/luminaire elevated NO MORE than 2.5deg, ie, tilted up on their longitudinal axis, per second attachment.

 

It all depends on what one is after as to how they go about it, but given the greed mentality of 95% of growers worldwide, then the 1st choice/combo above (3 x BT56's) would be the way they'd go if they knew how 3 of those would perform. 

 

For a good yield of the haziest sats around (350-450g/m2) with exceptional potency (fully realized resin) with budget restraints or limits, be they self imposed or otherwise - 1 x 10K Solis + 1 Full Nova - job's done, and done well.

 

So for me, in such a room/area, and for my purpose, the latter combo would be more than enough, but each as they see best.

Edited May 28, 2014 by FrankWills

[FrankWills]

For the 400W growers, this may be of interest:

 

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC4QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gelighting.com%2FLightingWeb%2Faus%2Fimages%2Fge-hid-cmh-high-wattages-datasheet_tcm284-46193.pdf&ei=XgaGU4fWDYX6kAWGx4DIAQ&usg=AFQjCNFOFXy3kZN8PwcnixY2hER1KJfchQ&bvm=bv.67720277,d.dGI

 

Check out the spectral distribution of the 4200K 400W'er on page 5.

Edited May 28, 2014 by FrankWills

[forgetiwashere]

When it comes to small grows, ie, up to 1m2, cupboards, tower PCs, etc, those 315's IMO are an outstanding little unit.  Crying shame they stopped producing the 400's.  But if I were doing a small grow that warranted me not using much more than 300-500W, I'd be very tempted to go for one of those 315s, and 1, preferably 2, "Philips MASTER SDW-T 100W/825 PG12-1 OEM 1SL".  They would complement the 315's spectrum beautifully... adding heaps of low-to-mid yellow/amber, and plenty of red and very far red to the existing lumpy violet/blue spectrum of the 315s.  Same mob sells the 100's as does the 315s (Advance).

 

Philips MASTER SDW-T 100W/825 PG12-1 OEM 1SL spectral output, attached.

 

And yes, I cannot find a MORE UV heavy output lamp than Solis Tek's 10K beauty.  It is a gem IMO.

 

The Solis Tek is the winning part of the spectrum for fully activating the resin, whereas the Nova's greatly assist/add to the spectrum’s ability in producing LARGER yields of MORE resin laden buds.  Keep in mind that the blue/UV aspect of the spectrum does very little in making a plant produce flowers profusely.  I've found it much more the yellow/amber part of the spectrum which does that, along with producing MORE stalks, i.e., elongates the nodes.  And it’s the RED that increases the AMOUNT of resin.  Hence so many LED growers screaming there’s more reason.  Yes more than HPS, not more than plain MH, and certainly NOT fully realized resin.   So when you have lots of UV/Blue, Yellow, Red and far Red, i.e., a proper FULL spectrum, then what you’re effectively looking at is a small piece of the Sun in your cab.  That is a far better way to ALL ROUND rather than just HPS alone, which has been the way throughout the community since the inception of "grow" lights.

 

I can say without any hesitation that I always got denser/heavier more solid buds using a decent 4000K MH than I ever got with the best of HPSs.  More compact plants, more resin and more dense buds, and most important from the purists perspective - MORE activated resin, i.e., MORE POTENT buds. 

 

For instance: try using a Sylvania BT56 4000k ALL BY ITSELF, and do a side by side grow in another room using the best HPS Gavita has to offer.  Same medium/strain/ferts, etc all.  The Sylvania will seem to produce less yield when looking at the crop before harvest... till you dry it all and weigh it up to your surprise.  The BT56/MH buds will be MORE dense and have MORE resin on them without doubt, i.e., MORE weight/yield.  Then come the smoke test... I wager you'd will leave the HPS grown buds till last.  You cannot beat a BALANCED spectrum, it's that simple.  That’s what the Sun produces, flat bar.

 

I have grown using ONLY the Solis tek bulb, before I discovered the spectral graph of the Novas.  Again, less yield weight than a good HPS, badly lacking in fact, and less weight than a BT56.  But the buds... the smoke... is superior to both the BT56 and the HPS, more so the latter. 

 

To cut to the chase... I do not bop, I grow for pleasure, have done so now for over 40 years... so I will never again use a HPS.  I won't sacrifice quantity for quality, especially when there are better options available for producing both (i.e., good cheap readily available 4000K MH's).

 

As for the 3 lamp mix you seek; it depends on what you're after.

 

For maximum yield with very decent potency (3/4 realized resin)... I'd choose 3 BT56s with a good ballast and an excellent reflector (can't go past "Super Sun 2" with 8" duct - better than Magnum XXXL (too large a footprint for small areas) and better than an OG Hood (too small a footprint for large areas)), and MUCH better than anything else out there, irrespective of its footprint. But you have to buy them from OS.

 

If we can use up to 3,000W in a minimum of 2mx2mx2.3m (JungleRoom or Gorilla tent) area, then:

 

-  For a very big yield (600-750g/m2, strain dependant) with very good potency (3/4 realized resin) - 3 x BT56 1000W 4000K MH.

 

-  For a big yield (500-600g/m2, strain dependant) with normal potency (1/2 realized resin) - 3 x Gavita 1000W DE's.

 

-  For a big yield (500-600g/m2) with exceptional potency (fully realized resin) and low setup costs - 1 Solis + 1 Full Nova + 1 BT56.

 

-  For a big yield (500-600g/m2) with exceptional potency (fully realized resin) without budget restrictions - 3 x Gavita 300 ELP + 1 Solis + 1 Full Nova.

 

-  For an outstanding yield (600-850g/m2) with very good potency (<3/4 realized resin) without budget restrictions - 2 x Gavita 300 ELP 42.01 + 2 x Gavita 300 ELP 42.02 + 1 'Solis 1000W in the middle of the grow-area with a good wide footprint reflector (Magnum XXXL 8")'... placing the 42.01's and 42.02's opposed on the diagonals of the room, and all 4 fittings having the inner-most edge (to the centre of the room) of their reflector/luminaire elevated NO MORE than 2.5deg, ie, tilted up on their longitudinal axis, per second attachment.

 

It all depends on what one is after as to how they go about it, but given the greed mentality of 95% of growers worldwide, then the 1st choice/combo above (3 x BT56's) would be the way they'd go if they knew how 3 of those would perform. 

 

For a good yield of the haziest sats around (350-450g/m2) with exceptional potency (fully realized resin) with budget restraints or limits, be they self imposed or otherwise - 1 x 10K Solis + 1 Full Nova - job's done, and done well.

 

So for me, in such a room/area, and for my purpose, the latter combo would be more than enough, but each as they see best.

 

 i too am a personal grower and i also will never grow under a HPS again. because i have much better results with CMH and even 4200k Mh much like yourself. but for a 2m x 2m room i know where my dollars would be going 4 x 315w CMH. these lamps are superior to the old 400w CMH. i have grown with both and they are great. in fact its the best light i have come across i suggest you give them a try.

 

i guarantee you 4 x 315w CMH will give you excellent results with all the resin your used to and even the yield your used to as well all for 1260w of power. yeah could you imagine getting 2-4lbs for just over 1000w? of high quality bud to boot. that right there is reason enough for me as a personal grower to stick with these lamps. as a personal grower i simply couldnt justify throwing a 1000w 10k lamp in the mix simply for supplemental lighting which is all those 10k's are good for. that would basically double my power bill anfd as a personal grower i dont see any returns from my grows so it all has to come out of my pocket so getting a complete light as efficient as the 315w CMH is awesome to me.

[obliterated]

Fantastic info on CMH and resin production going on here, Thank you Frank and Forgetiwashere

Finding that line between price/power and quality/yield is always a comprimise that we try to find a sweet spot for

Interesting how you spoke of appearance in wet weight Frank, Ive seen and heard these same observations from growers who use mixed spectrum's in the optimal ways.

Im still a little on the fence with the SolisTek 10K bulb... my experience was that it ripened just too damn quickly. Followed Solis Tek's recommendations with the 4x bulbs available.

Their 2K is fantastic as a HPS, and the 6K is also probably the most impressive MH Ive seen in that K.

The 4K did extremely well at reducing stretch at the beginning of stretch, but the 10K just made everything go from cloudy to amber in less than 72 hours. Undesirable for me, but does show how powerful this bulb is. Running this for the last 3 weeks seems impossible to me?

Bringing the 4K in again on the end of flower seems more viable, but yet to get back to Solis Teks again... still in Gavita land at the moment.

Forgetiwashere, your idea of 4x 315w in a 2.0x2.0 tent I think would work out very well indeed (and for 1400w power!)

For me the factor that plays through my head more so now is bulb replacement over consumption of power.

Great stuff guys, how is that nice slooooow dry coming Forgetiwashere?

Peace!

[pegz]

i guarantee you 4 x 315w CMH will give you excellent results with all the resin your used to and even the yield your used to as well all for 1260w of power. yeah could you imagine getting 2-4lbs for just over 1000w? of high quality bud to boot. that right there is reason enough for me as a personal grower to stick with these lamps. as a personal grower i simply couldnt justify throwing a 1000w 10k lamp in the mix simply for supplemental lighting which is all those 10k's are good for. that would basically double my power bill anfd as a personal grower i dont see any returns from my grows so it all has to come out of my pocket so getting a complete light as efficient as the 315w CMH is awesome to me.

 

You're only supposed to use the 10k lamp in the last 1-2 weeks of flowering.

[FrankWills]

Gents,

 

I hear what you say forget, your words ring truth with me so I'm willing to try it out.  May also add in a 600W Solis in the dead-center of the room in the last 3-4weeks of flower for that extra UV. 

 

Where is the best place to get a 4 x 315W's plus 4 good ballasts for them now? 

 

Let us know please guys in case there's a place other than Advance... will order OS if need be, have a good mate who owns a hydro store who orders in for me whenever need be.

 

Good vibes here fellas, well done.

Edited May 29, 2014 by FrankWills