Questions about a new recirc setup

[stealthcflbox]

 

Hi Guys, here are some pics of a new set up I have been playing with.

 

I have been using hand watered coco in pots for about 18months and finally decided to upgrade to automated. I have some questions regarding the setup I'm hoping someone can help with.

 

Hopefully you can see from the pics above, this system is basically a frame and baskets above a long res, with water pumped up into the baskets and flowing back down into the res. I will be using clay balls as a medium. So I have got some advice from a good mate who also grows, also with a recirc system in clay balls, and from the mate I purchased this set up from, but both lots of advice about feeding cycles seem to contrast.

 

The guy I got the set up from said he ran the pump 24hrs a day, while the mate who uses a double pot recirculating system said he only runs his pump for 15min every hour (15 mins, water running, 45 mins not running, repeated all day, all cycle) Can anyone provide any advice on this? I have also read all different feed cycles on these forums.

 

Also was wondering about water temps? One guy runs 29 degs, but the nutes I am going to be using say between 21-24 degs, I'm thinking the nute manufacturers advice is prob worth following here.

 

My final question is about aeration. There is no air pumps with this system. My double pot mate used an airstone and air pump in his res which I had considered buying, but since the former owner of this set up said he ran the water 24/7, I am thinking maybe the dripping back into the res introduces enough air into the water? Would that make sense? or is it a case of more air is always gunna be better and the air pump and stoner would be worth the investment?

 

It might also be worth mentioning both growers I have taken advice from don't produce anywhere near the size and quality buds my hand watered coco pots have, even though one of them grows the same strain as me.

 

I would very much appreciate some advice from some experienced recirc users,

 

Thanks guys,

 

Stealth

[GreenGoat]

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Hi Guys, here are some pics of a new set up I have been playing with.

 

I have been using hand watered coco in pots for about 18months and finally decided to upgrade to automated. I have some questions regarding the setup I'm hoping someone can help with.

 

Hopefully you can see from the pics above, this system is basically a frame and baskets above a long res, with water pumped up into the baskets and flowing back down into the res. I will be using clay balls as a medium. So I have got some advice from a good mate who also grows, also with a recirc system in clay balls, and from the mate I purchased this set up from, but both lots of advice about feeding cycles seem to contrast.

 

The guy I got the set up from said he ran the pump 24hrs a day, while the mate who uses a double pot recirculating system said he only runs his pump for 15min every hour (15 mins, water running, 45 mins not running, repeated all day, all cycle) Can anyone provide any advice on this? I have also read all different feed cycles on these forums.

 

Also was wondering about water temps? One guy runs 29 degs, but the nutes I am going to be using say between 21-24 degs, I'm thinking the nute manufacturers advice is prob worth following here.

 

My final question is about aeration. There is no air pumps with this system. My double pot mate used an airstone and air pump in his res which I had considered buying, but since the former owner of this set up said he ran the water 24/7, I am thinking maybe the dripping back into the res introduces enough air into the water? Would that make sense? or is it a case of more air is always gunna be better and the air pump and stoner would be worth the investment?

 

It might also be worth mentioning both growers I have taken advice from don't produce anywhere near the size and quality buds my hand watered coco pots have, even though one of them grows the same strain as me.

 

I would very much appreciate some advice from some experienced recirc users,

 

Thanks guys,

 

Stealth

 

Hi Stealth,

Personally I'm yet to get to run my own automated, but I'd like to try and give you some advice if possible.

When it comes to an automated hydro system it largely comes down to what works for you and personal preference. As for whether to run the pump for 15 minutes out of an hour or continuously my vote and advice would be to have it running 24/7 and to make sure you have a good oxygen source. I'd recommend looking into something called Bio Buckets (I'll provide a link) mostly because while you are not creating a biobucket system as such the principal is similar and the guy making the post has provided some good information.

 

Go 24/7 for your air and water pumps, if you are running without a airpump try and create a 1 foot drop when the water returns to your res, this will create an oxygen producing waterfall and should provide you ample amounts of oxygen for your system. The reasoning your mate would have the pump on for only part of the time is to allow the roots access to air, but if the water is oxygenated then this isn't required , by doing it this way though you open yourself up to more risk if the impeller in your pump was to develop a problem (happens most commonly at startup) or if the timer was to fail for some reason. If your power cuts out you may find your roots exposed for longer than the 45 minute window and could dry out and cause issues.

 

as for the nutrient temp I'd go for the 24 degrees, its better to go by the nute company then a mate and general consensus is to keep the res closer to room temp where as 29 degrees is a bit high and might help breed some nasty algae in your res. Higher temps can start to help root rot problems form too.

 

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=8182

 

That link above is the bio bucket thread that is pretty info-packed, hope it helps. 

Sorry I cant give you more first-hand info though

[stealthcflbox]

Thanks GG,

 

Exactly the sort of experienced advice I was looking for. That Bio Bucket set up is unreal! Heaps of information in that thread, thanks for linking.

 

You pretty much confirmed my thoughts on oxygen. When running the water pump 24/7 there should be enough oxygen, I think I'll start out this way for the first run. As for the one foot drop, noise is always a concern of mine. I'm already worried about the trickling water sound going all day long, I'm worried if I lift the baskets higher the noise will be louder.

 

Good advice also about the water temp. Unfortunatly room temp here at the moment is about 12 degs, so 24 should be about right.

 

I hadn't considered the possible problems of the water pump running 24/7 except to cover the pump in some flyscreen to stop roots growing into it. You have me worried now with power outages. The main problems I have ever had with my coco system is timers not continuting to count when the power goes off. Then if I dont reset them as soon as it comes back on the light schedules are out, and we have a heap of blackout in my area. Exposed roots drying out could be a huge problem. The former owner assured me the main tank fills with roots, I wonder if these laying in the water while the pump isnt running for a few hours would prevent disaster?

 

Anyway thanks again for your advice and quick reply GG

[thc24]

my recirculation experience tells me for that amount of root space you will need a big resivour 200lt plus as you must have a big pump to push good flow through that many 4mm feeders.

I'd consider sprayers on all the 4mm feeder in the clay balls which also helps airate. I'd personally think a few air pumps will be needed in res more air is better u will notice a benefit Often bigger recirculation setups use big air pumps which can be pricey if noise isn't a problem instead of paying hundreds for one big unit look at a couple of normal size aquarium pumps min or a 1x compressor type.

Now cooling the res how where u planning to adjust your temps? Really the only way is to by a xy aquarium cooler or use a larger res capacity more water = harder to cool and heat which gives more consistent temps, running the pumps to a min keeps temps down 15 on 45 off sounds about right with less watering at night but has to stay moist at all times so monitor as plants grow.

 

Next thing to watch is the roots the more you run the pump the more the roots grow out of the pots of clay and down into The res which will in time block the drain holes and strangle the roots in such small drain holes. To stop roots growing downwards run pumps just as needed, once u have a root ball it's possible to pick up whole rootball pulling roots back up through drain holes another idea is to line the drain with nft matting plus the root ball pick up 3to 4 times through grow.

 

To extend time between watering think about making a medium blend of clay and maybe 20% vermiculite or perlite. Good or cooler temps around 20c to 25c will reduce algae rot or fungi problems which was my initial worry with 24/7 running specially if res is under sized for quite the big recirculation root space.

 

Find a grow with a good proformning grower and model your setup res size feedtimes pump size and flow rate on a simular style to the equipment you have or will use. Speedy grow and have a blast.

 

Btw digital timers will solve any power issues as they retain settings and continue as usual when power does come back on.

Edited June 16, 2013 by thc24

[Stix87]

don't run pumps 24/7 only run for 15 min hour while lights on and when lights are off maybe water once  but you don't have to clay balls hold a bit of moisture. I used to run pumps 24/7 for the last 5 to 6 grows with no dramas but come this grow I got root rot wich was helped by having roots constantly wet has helped cause root rot. the point of hydroponics is to get the air into the roots not keep them constantly wet.

[stealthcflbox]

1. my recirculation experience tells me for that amount of root space you will need a big resivour 200lt plus as you must have a big pump to push good flow through that many 4mm feeders.

 

2. Now cooling the res how where u planning to adjust your temps?

3.Btw digital timers will solve any power issues as they retain settings and continue as usual when power does come back on.

 

1. The whole bottom tank in the above pics acts as the res. So far I have put 100lt into it and it looks about half full,

 

2. I hadn't even thought of that, I have a 300w aquarium heater to heat the res. Its fairly cold down here and the setup is in a shed, I'm hoping the water isnt going to heat to over 25 odd degs from the lights, my ventilation also keep the room at a pretty consistent temp

 

3. I cant beleive I didnt think of that, I even bought a new HD mechanical timer yesterday!

 

Thanks for your advice THC24

[stealthcflbox]

you must have a big pump to push good flow through that many 4mm feeders.

 

I'm not sure what size the pump is, I got it with the set up, but it seems up to the task. There is a bypass tap to run back into the res. The guy I got it off said he used to open this tap fully to reduce flow and increase aeration. In my test runs with this bypass open there is still plenty of water flowing out of each feeder tube.

[stealthcflbox]

don't run pumps 24/7 only run for 15 min hour while lights on and when lights are off maybe water once  but you don't have to clay balls hold a bit of moisture. I used to run pumps 24/7 for the last 5 to 6 grows with no dramas but come this grow I got root rot wich was helped by having roots constantly wet has helped cause root rot. the point of hydroponics is to get the air into the roots not keep them constantly wet.

 

My thinking was that with pumps running 24/7 the water dripping out of the baskets back into the res would aerate the water, providing oxygen to the water. From the research I have done I thought if the water had enough oxygen in it then it didnt matter if the roots were constantly wet? By running water only 15 mins in every hour I'd need to add an air pump and stone, do you think?

 

How come you got root rot this time if the last 5 - 6 time of 24/7 water had no probs?

[GreenGoat]

don't run pumps 24/7 only run for 15 min hour while lights on and when lights are off maybe water once  but you don't have to clay balls hold a bit of moisture. I used to run pumps 24/7 for the last 5 to 6 grows with no dramas but come this grow I got root rot wich was helped by having roots constantly wet has helped cause root rot. the point of hydroponics is to get the air into the roots not keep them constantly wet. 

 

The point of hydroponics is to find the right balance of oxygen and water, keeping the roots constantly wet doesn't have to equal rot.  
NFT and DWC are methods of growing with roots being always submerged, aquaponics frequently uses rafts for growing that again find the roots permanently submerged in a nutrient solution. All these solutions to a certain extent are used industrially and when tuned show great results...

[stealthcflbox]

 

 

NFT and DWC are methods of growing with roots being always submerged,

 

I dont know if I should admit this GG, But I only just read the canaversity tutorial tonight about the different types of hydroponic set ups after I put this post up. (I promise I had read a lot of it, but mostly 18 odd months ago when I started out on coco)

 

From the pics and what I've described, would this system running the water pump 24/7 be a form of DWC?