Help me save my girls please!

[bot]

Some basics to start

- 50litre pots run-to-waste

- Coco with thick layer of clay balls at the bottom

- Ample air-flow and oscliating fans in the bedroom

- Lights are about 15/30 cm away from tops (some longer branches have shot up)

- ec .6 - 1.2 (reduced from 1.2 due to burning, seemed to thrive at .6 in veg)

- Ph 5.8-6.0 feed tank

- Flush weekly with ph adjusted water

- Currently in week 6 of flower

- Plants were looking mostly healthy, but patches of problems like this are coming up

 

I really don't know what's going wrong. I've been tinkering away with the ec and ph levels but nothing much seemed to help. The best they looked was after a flush in veg and reducing the ec to 0.6. Some say this is too low, but I get signs of nutrient burn and other problems when I try and go over this.

 

The problem started at the bottom of the plants and was slowly working it's way up. Each time i'd prune them back and change the ec or ph to see if it affected the problem, but it didn't, only slowed it. The problem started on one plant but then worked it's way aaround the others. It started with the leaves going noticably dry and paper-like, then they started browning and disintegrating. In other sections, it's like the leaves are breaking up. It looks like bugs are eating them in parts, but other leaves show the sections are actually breaking off or splitting apart for some reason.

 

I've shown some pics of the disintegration - there is no evidence on the leaves or plants of bugs. I found some little white mite looking things in the coco that appear to be springtails, which i've read can cause ph problems. This seems plausible because I was having issues with the ph in the coco a while back - I simply could not bring it down no matter how much I flushed, but others say they are harmless. However, now the plants are drinking a whole lot less. I left them for three days to let them soak up the last feed, but the coco was still moist. I am now only feeding them about 10l each per day and I get too much run-off, so something is going on in the roots.

 

I've included a photo of a clone that has some of the breaking leaf thing happening. What causes it?

 

PLEASE HELP!!! I'm desperate. It looks like they'll die when they should be maturing

[Naycha]

My last grow went like this.

 

It was DWC and there were root problems which in my case were probably caused by high rootzone temperatures. This caused a lot of the roots to go brown and die, and because of all the dead root matter the bugs moved in and became a problem as well.

 

So I'd guess it's a root problem, but I'm not really sure what you can do. I've heard cannazyme is good for root problems cause it breaks down the dead roots into nutrients the plant can use or something like that.

 

Good luck.

[Radic]

greetnz

 

seen

it could be a root problem

imho

in certain climates, pure coco grows can be troublesome

eg here in nimbin i find it better to keep the coco content under 30% of the potting mix

coco needs microbes to really produce

 

try a microbial supplement like worm juice

to use as a---> supplement <---means --->10% or less

seen

so add only 10% more to your recommended CF

seen

as you work pon the root zone try this

instant first aid for sick plants

anytime and everytime you suss a root problem

 

start folia feeding asap

use a high K spray like liquid kelp or eco carb

mix and spray as directed for folia spray

pluss a little P like liquid guano for her flowerz

same

mix and spray as directed for folia spray

usually safe at around 100:1 mix

 

warning

never spray under hot lights ,,,,ever

seen

 

irey guidance

[bot]

Thanks for the feedback...

 

It looks like a root problem with the adult plants, but i'm still wondering what could be causing the leaves to break up on the small plant? It looks like it's starting out the same way, but the roots that are coming through the bottom of the pot look white and healthy. I also dug down to the bottom of the pots the adult plants are in and pulled up some roots, and they looked fine - white/light tan and fairly strong. Perhaps i'll find more right at the very bottom that are rotten when I pull up?

 

Is there anything I could be doing wrong with the feed? I figure the feed and ph should be only minor issues if the ph is kept at 6.0. In fact, there shouldn't be any issues at all with a good quality nutrient, which I have.

 

Is there a definitive growers book that details all manner of problems with hydro grows?

 

Cheers

[Radic]

The best they looked was after a flush in veg and reducing the ec to 0.6

if it works

go so

the whole idea is to run you nutrient solution as lean as possible while still maxing out the growth rates

seen

if your plants love 0.6 CF

then smile at you friendz and stay there

it cheaper

nutrient burn will cause irreparable damage and you will hafe flush your hard earned $$$$ to waist

thats a problem with coco it is so very very good at retaining water and nutrients that flushing is a bit more finicky

with coco grows it is absolutely essential that the flush is executed and employed ina correct fashion and time

imho

you need coco management practices book

coco and hydro are not really compatable

coco adds sometingsz to the potting medium and that is a big no no for strictly hydroponic gardening

special management is required to peak yield

thats why Canna put out a special coco nutrient

check their site for recommended management

Google -->coco hydroponics

there is lotsa info out there

other leaves show the sections are actually breaking off or splitting apart for some reason.

lack of moisture due to root supply problem or sap sucking insects

 

I've included a photo of a clone that has some of the breaking leaf thing happening. What causes it?

sorry

i didnt answer this one

this damage looks a bit different

could it be a genetic defect???????? it happens

or insect attack can cause that kind of damage????????

 

i have to protect me seedlings with a full cage from local marsupials dat love eating seedlings

i end up with teeth marks left in the remaining leaves similar to that

 

is there any posible way some critter is getting in there????????

 

the leaf curl and verigation plus the tip burn is a strong sign of root problems or overheating

 

guidance

[John Citizen]

Hey Bot,

 

Radic's advice re: coco in certain climates may very well be a factor. If you reside in a moist/humid climate then coco never drying out may be attributing to your problems. At 1st glance i'd say its a deficiency that is causing the leaves to burn/disintegrate, i cant tell you what type of deficiency and given your constant monitoring of your nutes i am no longer sure its a deficiency - unless as Radic says the root zone is unhealthy therefore preventing uptake of particular elements. Fortunately i have plenty of experience with growing in coco; unfortunately my knowledge of what symptoms indicate which deficiency is virtually non existent. I recall a great article for troubleshooting and identifying element deficiencies in canna - i will do my best to track it down for ya.

 

I doubt these problems are genetic but again this is just my opinion. If your airflow has been addressed, you've found your happy EC level and youre keeping the GR temp down i'd lean towards roots/root zone. Whether its your clay/coco mix or related to microbe levels will be a case of trial and error. Again i'd hope for her sake its microbes considering the problem is relatively recent this may be the case. I use "Microbol" in my ressy to keep the root zone healthy and to convert dead veg matter in to food (this is what the manufacturer claims - i dont have any science to back it up other than to say im yet to run in to similar problems, touch wood).

obviously there's a hell of a lot more to a RTW coco grow than adding microbes, this is just one aspect of keeping root zone healthy. I wont get in to numbers but i will say ive been growing with coco since 1998; always been in a cool winter/hot summer [southern] climate. I swear by allowing new plants to dry out between feeds, i believe this encourages the roots to search harder for nute source resulting in more resilient root systems - once cuttings have developed several roots i'll either pot straight in to 30/50L pots with approx bottom 20% of pot containing expanded clay and feed once every 3 days for 1st 12 days. Alternatively i pot cuttings in small (appx 1L) pot similar to your pic without clay and feed apprx 0.5-1L every 2 days for 1st 12 days. I cant stress enough that this is my proven method i dont claim that it is the only or best method and i cant say it will prevent your issues from reoccurring. You may consider growing a 50/50 coco perlite mix or alternating layers of clay and coco in a layer upon layer fashion to improve drainage.

 

If i were you i'd get hold of a microbe aditive like microbyol or cannazyme and add it to your nutes; i'd reduce your level of lighting and feed them approx 5L one day then nothing the next and 5L the 3rd day. I suggest reducing lighting to keep temp down in case the coco dries too quickly and causes stress; i cant help but think maybe too much moisture may be contributing to your problem - that leads to the question of how much drainage do your pots have? i assume plenty if their giving so much nutes back. so IMO try what i said for about 3-4 days to see if it slows the the disintegration and gradually increse your ligthing and feeding. If this doesnt work then pray she holds out for 2-3 weeks.

 

one last thing - change your brand of coco (purely for trial and error purpose - ive tested several brands and the one i currently use my girls love so i aint changing it - i will post some pics next week and let the experts decide)

 

Good Luck

JC

[bot]

Both great replies, appreciate the advice. I've got some foliar spray with high k content, will start spraying lights out tomorrow, will remove a light, I already did a pyrethrum flush to see if it helped and it seems to have a little, at least with the top layer of coco. They don't seem to be dying quickly but the problem is still there. I also added some superthrive (forgot I had it) and some microbial to the res, will post updates in a few days.

 

Cheers

[bot]

sorry

i didnt answer this one

this damage looks a bit different

could it be a genetic defect???????? it happens

or insect attack can cause that kind of damage????????

 

is there any posible way some critter is getting in there????????

 

the leaf curl and verigation plus the tip burn is a strong sign of root problems or overheating

 

I doubt it's genetic, I know the strain is good. I got it from someone who has no problems at all, but he lives in a different climate. The little one may have been too close to the light, have addressed that. I reckon i'm going to try mixing the coco with perlite and add about 30% clay balls to the little one, see how it goes. It's possible there's a critter in there but I can't see any any on the leaves anywhere and i've spent time looking with a microscope. I've only noticed the little springtail things in the coco.

[mull]

I found some little white mite looking things in the coco that appear to be springtails, which i've read can cause ph problems. This seems plausible because I was having issues with the ph in the coco a while back - I simply could not bring it down no matter how much I flushed, but others say they are harmless.

 

Double check this one mate. It wouldn't be a surprise if you have nymph sciarid fly larvae sewing pythium in the roots there. Effect shown on the leaves

[Radic]

right on mullaway

be vigilant

keep a keen eye pon the insects in the pots

now that the damage is apperant the immune system will be suffering

your plants are venerable to insect attack

koll dem all and come back alone

and

get that K spray asap

 

excellent advice from JC

 

irey guidance