the nimbin hemp bar

[Budman2012]

:)

 

Cheerz Bigbong , man , this thread is going swimmingly today ...

 

 

Now I gotta read SS's massive romper of a post.

 

 

 

(EDIT) - O.k. I read it now , Well said SS.

Edited August 24, 2006 by Budman2012

[stonedstump]

Holy shit that's a huge post.

 

I TOTALLY agree SS that's an excellent post

 

100%

[SukonmiSkunk]

sorry, havent made a post for a while.. I tried to make it short...

[pipeman]

webgreetings pipeman in particular.

 

PM = the stuff about hydro should be deleted from your mission statement, as its not central to your mission, not to mention the fact that it has no basis in fact. You can state your preference for outdoor without attacking indoor, which is all we're really asking for.

 

BB= I understand what you are asking for pipeman, for us to cease our *attack* on indoor, we cannot because we want to distance our hippyselves from that substance and all it entails, can you understand that?

 

I understand you want to distance yourselves from it, I just don't understand how can you expect to be successful in law reform if you distance yourselves from the plant you are supposedly fighting for.

 

PM= OK so the pork brigade get a tipoff and raid a home and find a pound of bud. The cops say its indoor hydro, the accused says its outdoor, and it would be impossible to prove one way or the other. This is the reason the legalisation of outdoor pot only would be impossible. So by condemning law reform for indoor pot, the HEMP Bar crew are automatically condemning law reform for all pot.

 

BB= I'd say no where do we say relegalize outdoors INSTEAD of indoors, In fact I have mentioned several times how we totally avoid having to split the difference. I'd say the new legislation is more aimed at "growing appartus" rather than towards buds in possesion by non growers. I'd say 1 elbow is 16 ounces which is DEFINITELY a 'dealer weight' of cannabis and that that person is in the shit whether it indoors or out, whether they are a dealer or not. I would alos imagine, in the hypothetical court case, that the hypothetical police would have done a professional investigation and would have found 'other evidence' to present to the judge.

 

So any outdoor grower who has more than a pound is a dealer? geez how do you expect a personal grower to grow outdoors and NOT have a pound or more of bud in his posession at harvest time.

 

In fact, if you wanted to control the amount of pot people had in their posession, that is actually an argument for hydro because a personal setup can turnaround several small yields a year keeping the total amount of plant material at any one time to a minimum.

 

but anyway, if you think legislation legalising outdoor pot but not indoor is possible, then go ahead and write it then. I guarantee you won't be able to come up with something that works

[EntyMan]

Okay, maybe I was a little premature in voting to lock this thread down. The quality of argument seems to have picked up a bit, and looks like it might have further to go.

 

Some good comments, especially well said SukonmiSkunk and Pipeman.

 

So:

 

"In fact, if you wanted to control the amount of pot people had in their posession, that is actually an argument for hydro.." Pipeman

 

Good point. But not clear to me if by 'hydro', do you specifically mean pure hydro, or indoors generally (ie anything grown under lights)?

 

"I am concerned about the hydro laws, ESPECIALLY as they relate to small growrooms for personal use." BigBong

 

Very glad to hear that, BB. But now I am even more confused. Firstly, I presume by "small growrooms for personal use" you mean "non-outdoor" growing. If so, then what exactly is it that you object to with "non-outdoor" growing?

 

It would help matters a lot if you made a consistent distinction between pure hydro systems, and indoor growing in general, they are not the same. Indoor simply means using artificial lights for the light source, that is all. Hydro can be done indoors or outdoors, there is no necessary connection between hydro and indoors.

 

The only fundamental necessary difference between my grow and your's, is the light source. Everything else can be, and often is, the same (grow medium, fert source, strain, etc). Furthermore, I and everyone else here at OS have agreed with you from the start that sunlight is preferable. But we also believe artifical light does a reasonable job too, given there is no safe access to sunlight (or if your climate doesn't have a long growing season). The alternative for me, and most indoor growers, is that we don't grow at all. Which means we either go without (no thanks), rely on donations (no thanks), or buy commercial weed (no thanks).

 

This is exactly the reason why I went to a lot of trouble many years ago to learn general science based horticultural principles. So I could grow properly, save money, guarantee personal supply, control the quality, AND COMPLETELY AVOID THE COMMERCIAL SCENE.

 

We obviously agree about the real potential health (and other) problems related to the large scale, profit-driven poorly-grown commercial crops. But I do not like having my considered choice of personal grow methods, and strains, so casually and unjustifiably associated with either commercial crops (of any quality), or health problems.

 

Life is largely a never ending set of compromises and trade-offs.

 

What choice would you make if you couldn't grow outdoors, and were not able to just up and move to somewhere you could, which is the position most home growers are in?

 

I think you would use lights, and be at least content with the result.

 

I am old enough to have been a semi-hippy, and I still have hippy friends and long although seriously thinning hair, etc. I am a lot more sympathetic to the philosophy of the Nimbin area crowd than you may give me (and others) credit for. But I also believe in hard science.

 

Everyone has acknowledged your contributions to law reform and cannabis issues generally. But I think you have allowed your understandably bad experience with crap commercial "hydro" to seriously colour your judgement against all indoor grows.

 

I would be happy if you insert a clear caveat into your mission statement to the effect that small scale, well cared for indoor grows, by informed and experienced PERSONAL level growers (who will be smoking the stuff they are growing, not selling it), are not the target of your criticisms. If you want to go after crap grows, indoor or outdoor, and especially at commercial levels, then you get my support. But don't tar me with the same brush. Fair enough?

 

It is not practically possible, but I really wish we could all meet and have a friendly smoke-off some fine spring day, with our best against yours. I know from first hand experience that some of the finest around can be found growing in small personal plots outdoors in them wonderful north NSW hills. But you ain't tried mine yet. I have never had a complaint, and usually get compliments, from the many friends who have sampled mine over the years, and more than one or two of them are experienced users from way back.

 

Cheers

Edited August 24, 2006 by EntyMan

[Budman2012]

Well said Entyman ,

The definitions of "Hydro" have been defined previously in this thread. It's not possible to blanket all possible growing scenarios with just one "Slang" word like that .

 

I don't think adding a part about why Well cared for Indoor Grows is neccessary ...

And Its not what the HempBar endorses. That is fair enough Imo. I just think that all parts about "Hydro" should be changed to reflect what The Real Dangers of Commercial Cannabis entail.

 

 

Here's something I prepared Earlier. (While Net connection was down) ...

---

From the HEMPbar :

 

“IMPORTANT NOTE: When we refer to cannabis and marijuana in our webspace, we are ONLY talking about organic outdoor cannabis. The Nimbin H*E*M*P*Bar, by 'constitutional mandate', champions ONLY outdoor cannabis, we ONLY endorse real hippy pot, totally natural, organic - CANNABIS grown with its roots in the soil and its leaves in the sun. Bush Buds.”

 

No worries.

 

 

“We are NOT referring to Commercial / Blackmarket Indoor hydroponic Cannabis that has been scientifically/selectively bred to produce as much THC as possible in the shortest amount of time.”

 

Please Remove the word “Indoor” as both Commercial and Blackmarket Cannabis are grown Outdoors aswell. Also maybe add more about why It can be harmful to your health because of below par growing standards.

 

 

“Since opening day in the H*E*M*P*Bar we hasbeens have been alerting our patrons to all of the very real dangers associated with the mechanism of "hydro" (particularly commercial) and especially in the understanding of the conspiracy (oil companies and chemical companies) that is behind the entire hydroponic industry.

 

Here's just a few of the ways that H*E*M*P*Bar staff use to describe hydro;

"Smoking Hydro is like having sex with a robot, not saying there's anything wrong with having sex with a robot, just saying."

"Like premature babies, forced to mature in an artificial environment, follow the money trail, see where it leads."

"Generating electricity creates so much environmental destruction and so growing Cannabis indoors seems a gigantic waste of resources.'”

 

Please just remove this part , or again just refer it to Badly nurtured Commercial Cannabis or something similar.

You could still relate this information and opinions to anyone who's interested that contacts the HEMPbar right?.

 

 

“"If you want to enjoy out door buds, sit down under a tree, wriggle your toes in the dirt, feel the sun on your skin and then try to smell the wind with your hair - try it, it works. To understand that indoor stuff. Lock your self in a small room, turn on lots and lots of hot bright lights, put your feet in a bucket of water while you watch tv non stop for 3 months. Order in lots of processed junk food. Your life, You choose. Battery hen or Eagle."”

 

Well again , the humour is appreciated and reflects the lightheartedness and good humour of most Stoners , but It’s a little silly and again does not accurately describe the love and care that goes into most personal indoor grows. Maybe just some more lighthearted humour and positive reasons why you guys love and prefer Outdoor buds more? That would be much nicer and would have good effect I think.

 

 

 

“"Smoking Hydro in Nimbin makes as much sense as going to the south of France on a gourmet food tour and just eating MacDonald's."”

 

ahhh yes , Please just say … “Smoking Bad quality Marijuana in Nimbin makes as much sense as … etc.”  Because that is a lot more fair and accurate.

 

 

“Here's just one of the things the H*E*M*P*Bar staff have to say about Bongs when our ZERO BONG policy is discussed.

"Bongs spill, no matter how much care is taken accidents happen, and its never a freshly cleaned one, so can you imagine how it would stink in here? if there were half a dozen bong spills every day."”

 

Well , It’s a fair enough rule , and It just means more apparatus more risk of trouble too. , But seriously , is everyone that clumsy? I maybe a have a small spill once every 500 cones , if I’m unlucky.

And seriously , who would come to the Hempbar with a dirty seedy Bong?

 

 

“The H*E*M*P*Bar does not encourage indoor hydroponic cannabis to smoked on its premises, we are polite about it, as polite as we are when pointing out the NO alcohol, NO bongs and NO dogs policies. (but keep an eye out for the "Barking Wombats")”

 

Nice and lighthearted again , and I see nothing wrong with it. I think the only place the word “Hydro” can satisfactorily remain is in this whole statement is in that sentence.

 

“H*E*M*P*Bar activism doesn't stop at the front door, there have been trips to Sydney with the Big Joint to the 1999 Drug Summit, Industrial hemp crops tended, a three month tour around the jails of NSW dubbed the "Freedom Ride", anti-sniffer dog protests, Dave Cannabis was busted and charges laid for running a Cannabis Cafe Demonstration Model (even though what was happening in the HEMP Bar was known about by police ministers who had given thier "unofficial" nod of approval), the Big Joint on Sydney Harbour and history has proved that the H*E*M*P*Bar is one of the best places to hang during the annual Mardi Grass Protestival.”

 

Good Stuff Guyz , Keep Up The Great work.

---

 

U Like? Tell me what you think Please.

 

Bye 4 Now.

Budman

 

(P.s. I could have gone Into alot more detail ofc. And wanted to heheh , But I thought I'd try and keep It as simple as I could. Thx) : )

[HighRising]

I think you're all missing the point, and I can't see why people can't just agree with BigBong - whether you agree with what he says or not - he is right! Just championing all natural pot is much easier. And probably the only way it will ever become legal. When it is a scientifically cultivated plant grown in completely artificial circumstances, it seems in a way little different to any other drug. When it is just a plant that you grew, nurtured and harvested from the earth itself, it's a little harder to argue against your right to do that. And once we have our right to grow outdoor, do you think they'll really bother trying to track down people with hydro setups? And when it comes down to "It's legal in your backyard but you're getting busted for hydro!" is anyone is really gunna care that much about hydro? Kids won't even bother ripping it because everyone will have backyards full of it! Edited August 24, 2006 by HighRising

[Jess Stone]

Yes Ms Green thats what a 10y.o. bud looks like.

Gee BigBong.org where do you get some of this disinformation you say? From the Calabrian Mafias Man, Premier Morris Iamscumma? Wheres this"proof" of mental condition CAUSED by CANNABIS(thats the Anti-Cannabis Nazis claim,its not 'hydro' specific) I have read alot of these GARBAGE claims, seen the SHAMEFUL 4Corners/etc. show of OPINIONS,CONjecture and "my belief its the case" and its all a pack of Anti-Cannabis Nazi propaganda, when one gets to the bottom line on this you find that the % of people they refer to is .03 of one percent! in otherwords BULL SHIT.

 

Does any one here at OZ know of people who "blame" their mental condition on cannabis? Think about it before you answer.

1]Did they use OTHER drugs including ALCOHOL?

2] Did you know them prior to ever using cannabis?

3]Did you know them prior to them blaming cannabis for their "new found" mental condition?

4]Were they 'loco' before they even used cannabis?

 

Please explain from a scientific point of view BB.org how 'hydro' cannabis is different to outdoors?(without changing the laws of science)

 

When was the last "crime syndicate" big bust? Please don't site "Kabbala woman" and 'her 3 Sons' as an eg.

The only one I can think of that might qualify was the Viet or Chinese(?) 3 house and a Hydroponics shop/warehouse one in Sydney's S.W.

 

In fact BigBong.org the last really big busts that "might" possibly be an organised syndicate have been OUT DOOR BUSTS eg the North Queensland multi-farm busts earlier this year another that might qualify was the Greek old people bust last year(or the year before)

 

And something you need to realise is that (god forbid I don't wish this on BB.org or ANYONE for that matter)

if you were to get busted/raided and it lead to your neighbours/friends/associates to being busted from surveillance/phone tapping/phone records (land and mobi),pc's etc(not narking I don't mean that at all ,NO fault of yours other than the stated ways it happens) , the police case would state that you ALL were part of a criminal syndicate a "criminal conspiracy" to supply commercial quantities of cannabis and it would be Bull Shit but thats the sort of crap the filth bung on.

 

Further B.B.org I can assure you large commercial outdoor cannabis crops are very likely to be not clean by organic growing standards eg chemical ferts and INSECTICIDES ! Do you really think if the bugs/birds/rats/bandi's or whatever else might cause failure or lower yields from losses at harvest wont be dealt with swiftly and DEADLY to save loss of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$......... ?

 

ps does any one know someone who is the atypical BS Stoner image presented in comedies and even as peoples genuine opinion of Stoners ,you know the one that goes " Wow man,I have hands! Wow the colours man! etc" as everytime I see this BS I think to myself "what the hell are they describing,its sounds like someone tripping or 'shroomimg ,NOT POT !"

[Budman2012]

 

I think you're all missing the point, and I can't see why people can't just agree with BigBong - whether you agree with what he says or not - he is right! Just championing all natural pot is much easier. And probably the only way it will ever become legal. When it is a scientifically cultivated plant grown in completely artificial circumstances, it seems in a way little different to any other drug. When it is just a plant that you grew, nurtured and harvested from the earth itself, it's a little harder to argue against your right to do that. And once we have our right to grow outdoor, do you think they'll really bother trying to track down people with hydro setups? And when it comes down to "It's legal in your backyard but you're getting busted for hydro!" is anyone is really gunna care that much about hydro? Kids won't even bother ripping it because everyone will have backyards full of it!

 

Sorry man , I agree with you , But we are not missing the point , as the thread is about the HEMPbars mission statement.

 

Hey Jess , Woah man ... YTour an interesting sounding charachter. Maybe you would be interested in writing a book about all your accounts?? We need more literate people to do these kinds of things Imo.

Btw. I don't think the Mental Health issues have really been brought up in any detailed discussion. I'm not sure It would be a comment that the HEMPbar would wise to discuss within any of their statements Imo ... However , I'm sure the argument will be more forcibly argued in tghe future .. All the more reason for us all to start compiling databases on the the actuall facts , like has been done (Somewhat) here at OZStoners ...

 

The Thread continues ...

 

Budman ... Awaits proper response.

 

[wildflower]

look at all these pages for christs sake. All this wasted energy to try and educate some deadbeat hippy. How many people (god bless ya Jess Stone) have come and gone and reitterated the say thing over and over. Hes arguements are just ridiculas, unfounded and its insane that he repeats them! (talk about believing your own BS).

This has nothing to do with the mission statement.

Nothing to do with the points made.

It has everything to do with some fool unleashing whatever frustrations and disappointments onto indoor growers and maybe come out on top.

Its not about the truth its not about facts.

its not about welfare of people and mental health issues - Dont fool me to think that you care BigBong. You only give a damn about yourself. Because if you did care, this thread would be 2 pages longs. So you cant fool me.

BigBong is about as sincere as some fat politician feeding off the public purse.

 

Wise up.

and shut this thread down.

Otherwise he just swings this thread about like a dead cat - over and over. Irritating everyone but himself.

Do you really think he is anything but a compassionate and a logical person?

Repeat a lie for long enough and people will begin to believe it (FFS highrising)

politicians