Pain specialists ban medicinal cannabis

[seedsmanspain]

This article  https://www.smh.com.au/national/medicinal-cannabis-blacklisted-by-australian-pain-specialists-20210322-p57cyw.html

 

looked a little concerning.

 

Reading through the report though I found this gem that the SMH article neglected to mention.

 

“While IASP cannot endorse the general use of cannabinoids for treatment of pain at this time, we do not wish to dismiss the lived experiences of people with pain who have found benefit from their use,” said Andrew Rice, Professor of Pain Research, Department of Surgery and Cancer, Faculty of Medicine, Imperial College London and chair of the IASP’s Presidential Task Force on Cannabis and Cannabinoid Analgesia.

“This is not a door closing on the topic,” he added, “but rather a call for more rigorous and robust research to better understand any potential benefits and harms related to the possible use of medical cannabis, cannabis-based medicines and synthetic cannabinoids for pain relief, and to ensure the safety of patients and the public through regulatory standards and safeguards.”

 

Any thoughts ?

 

Mick

[merl1n]

"...SMH article neglected to mention."

Not surprising, not surprising at all.

 

The more rigorous and robust research should have already been done years ago, they've had the time. This is a discussion that has been going on for decades and still the same arguments continue. WHY??

I think part of the problem is having a standardized measure for canna as every strain has it's own levels of 'active ingredient' and they want a set measure ie 'x' mg CBD,  'y' mg THC.

​The Canadian oils must be diluted to a standardized measure and although the approved GVM does have a measure it's as a % and not in mg/g, but this still does not give the medicos a set measure of effect.

 

I believe this will be held up by the opponents of canna as a reason not to approve 'Ohh but we don't know the long term impact...' Why don't they just ask the people who do know. Us. Is it REALLY that hard??

The fact is that it is available, even if it's fuckin expensive, so why are they still putting up roadblocks?? to appease big pharma?? to make the dr's feel more important than they really are?? What about the patients who are receiving a benefit?? Do we ever get a say or are we just statistics plotted on a nice colourful graph? It really is a load of crap.

 

OK, so that's enough of my thoughts.

Merl1n

[seedsmanspain]

Hi Merl1n,

                Hanlon's razor is a principle or rule of thumb that states "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".

I do find that useful !

 

               It is a difficult area of study, largely because pain and in particular chronic pain is such a subjective issue and pharmacology is as objective as possible.

Cannabis does not have the potent analgesic qualities of opiods or the anti-iinfammatory properties of (non steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs(NSAIDS) which makes it more difficult to quantify results but it does not have as serious adverse effects or potential for overdose.

              As a chronic pain patient I know that my quality of life is not only measured by a pain scale but a variety of factors many of which are impacted by the adverse effects of opiods and NSAIDS.  The report seems to acknowledge this but the focus is on quantifiable pain studies rather than quality of life which would include a more holistic assessment of patient outcomes.

              As for big pharma.....I think they know they could make great profits from medicinal cannabis, edibles etc as would groups like Blackmores (Big Herba)

I honestly believe that most people involved in medicine are motivated by humanitarian interests but this is a difficult area to assess scientifically and its clouded by an association with decidedly non scientific advocates making wild claims.

Dope wont save the world, it will never replace morphine but it has a valuable role in chronic pain and other areas that as the report says needs better research.

The shitty SMH are not so nuanced.

Ta

Mick

[Nonannystate]

 

I honestly believe that most people involved in medicine are motivated by humanitarian interests

That's a broad statement Mick! I'd say that were true in specific groups but on the whole I tend to disagree. 

"Humanitarian interests" in most fields of business these days is a convenient offshoot or by-product, running a distant second (or third, fourth, fifth) to the single most important reason business exists.....$$$

 

 

 

 Why don't they just ask the people who do know. Us. Is it REALLY that hard??

 

Because they tend to cater to the lowest common denominator. Ask people what they need and want? Really? That would  be akin to granting the population freedom of choice and admitting to a semblance of free will. Dangerous.

 

 

 

The fact is that it is available, even if it's fuckin expensive, so why are they still putting up roadblocks??

Because we live in an age where nobody is prepared to take responsibility for anything, anytime! Period!

[merl1n]

Because we live in an age where nobody is prepared to take responsibility for anything, anytime! Period!

 

'..Nobody is prepared to take responsibility...' or just our politicians won't take responsibility (Unless it benefits them personally)

I'll say it again, 'Poli comes from Greek and means many and tics, well, tics are blood sucking insects'  

[Nonannystate]

As much as I despise the fuckers Merlin, they're nothing but a product of their environment.

People in general are ignorant and lazy.  Ignorant to the freedoms they trade for supposed safety and lazy in terms of assuming government is the answer to all of life's woe's.

 

Take Cannabis for instance. There are a hell of a lot of people in AUstralia who who vote No if a referendum were held on legalizing Marijuana based solely on the fact that government tells them it is bad, then on the way back from the polling station call in for a carton of beer and a pack of cigarettes. 

 

Government loves ignorance. It's how they maintain power over the masses. 

 

 

'..Nobody is prepared to take responsibility...' or just our politicians won't take responsibility (Unless it benefits them personally)

I'll say it again, 'Poli comes from Greek and means many and tics, well, tics are blood sucking insects'  

I didn't know that. How apt!

[merl1n]

As much as I despise the fuckers Merlin, they're nothing but a product of their environment.

People in general are ignorant and lazy.  

 

I couldn't agree more

Presently, they're arguing male vs female in Canberra, which is a cop out. The issue is one of power and who has it and who doesn't.

The image that's 'trying' to be pushed is 'BigStrongMale vs MeekTimidFemale'.

Meek and timid like this

 

 

This is much more about power and now this woman is our attorney general, the highest law officer in the land and that is a scary prospect.

As Frank Herbert once said:-

   

         "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It's not that power corrupts but that power is a magnet to the corruptible"

 

For many years I worked within a female orientated field, with a female boss and she wielded the authority like a sword. She tried to portray the 'MeekTimidFemale' to outsiders but within the workplace she was a kunt. The problem came when outsiders came into the work environment. She had to show 'MeekTimidFemale' and 'Kunt' at the same time. It was funny to watch her swap and change right before your very eyes.

Edited April 2, 2021 by merl1n

[merl1n]

Hi Merl1n,

                Hanlon's razor is a principle or rule of thumb that states "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".

I do find that useful !

 

               It is a difficult area of study, largely because pain and in particular chronic pain is such a subjective issue and pharmacology is as objective as possible.

Cannabis does not have the potent analgesic qualities of opiods or the anti-iinfammatory properties of (non steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs(NSAIDS) which makes it more difficult to quantify results but it does not have as serious adverse effects or potential for overdose.

              As a chronic pain patient I know that my quality of life is not only measured by a pain scale but a variety of factors many of which are impacted by the adverse effects of opiods and NSAIDS.  The report seems to acknowledge this but the focus is on quantifiable pain studies rather than quality of life which would include a more holistic assessment of patient outcomes.

              

 

As I've stated previously, for me canna is not a painkiller like an opiate, but it takes my mind away from that constant reminder of agony and this allows me to function (somewhat). Sure I can dose myself up on opiates till I can't stand upright but the side effects of doing so are simply nasty. And that mind fog of high dose opiates is just yuck.

 

I'm a moderator for a bunch of online health forums and I'm often saying

 

              "A common theory in science is A+B=C but when it comes to neurology A+B=C is way too simple. I am NOT 'A', my situation is NOT 'B', and the result certainly is NOT 'C'.

               The Dr's (or scientists) don't like this, they like fixed quantities. For me it's more a case of A+B-CxD/E√F... and every one of them is variable everyday."

 

As for their pain scale, @#%*@&%#, they 'try' to make everything fit within their scale and at times I far exceed that scale. Post surgery I had a nursey ask my scale out of 10. I said '15' "Ohh, it can't be that bad.." she said. "Well, you lay on the floor and I'll boot you in the side of the head, then you can tell me" I retorted. She was offended, but nowhere near as offended as I was. I was not going to call her stupid directly, but she got the message.

 

It's my view that if someone receives a benefit then that's the end of the conversation, they should have access to it. The medicos want to quantify it all for their own statistics, but their statistics are of no benefit to me.

 

Merl1n

[BlackBacardi]

It's sad to read articles that are like 5 years apart and see the exact same way of thinking in all of them. Somebody else said on here that they have the same arguments as years ago and I couldn't agree more. Where is the development in this domain? Why are we still stuck at "we don't know for sure the benefits yet", like how? There are researches everywhere. I feel like only the community can help erase the stigma that for some reason is still very much alive. I have a friend that's trying to open a dispensary in Los Angeles and I'm super excited both for him and for the impact he'll have on the community. It's a pretty interesting subject, that of opening a dispensary, and I'm trying to get more info on it, who knows, maybe I'll follow along as well.

[benn0]

I hit the roof over this, I was fuming. This is just another narrative the government is trying to slap suffer's with.
People out there have been pushed off opioid medication, doctors have been left scrambling trying to help people, people are fuckin dieing and their conditions are being exacerbated due to extreme tapering, if they are in pain they should be allowed to atleast have the option and the professional opinion with that option to choose cannabis. Its so sad what this "liberal" government has done.

Edited April 12, 2021 by benn0

[merl1n]

Ohh benn0 you've got no argument from me.

The way meds are dispensed here in Oz vs U.S. is totally different. The U.S. has an issue with opiates because they were being handed out like candy. That's a U.S. issue, not here. Getting high dose opiates here is much more difficult with a heap of checks an balances in place to restrict and monitor usage. They cannot morally block opiates for those of us who need them to control pain, not without having some sort of adequate replacement, and presently, they don't.

I've had to go along to an independent Dr to have a medication review ordered by Medicare and the end result was 'Opiates are your only option'.

I informed the Dr I'm also using 'prescribed' canna, so he had the information but still the response was 'Opiates are your only option'. So, yea it is the law and govt, but it's also the medical profession too. That whole idea of 'The Evil Weed ' is still present. It's only been within the last 10yrs that the mighty AMA have changed their rhetoric from 'Evil Weed' to 'possibly some benefit for some people'.

 

It's got a LONG way to go to be accepted.

 

Merl1n