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Mildews and moulds.......look out

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#11
benn0

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Where I am located I'm literally anticipating an outbreak, with the La Nina weather we've had this year resulting in us having a much milder summer and much longer winter during Feb next year there will likely be other garden plants absolutely get decimated my mildew/mold. Also starting to get a feeling later on this season might also be an issue with thrips and mites.

Seen some great advice, discussion and recommendations above. Having an IPM regime (integrated pest management regime) has been essential, once there is an outbreak then its always a battle and I've never gotten back to pre-outbreak and in the past I've just given up because I didn't want to spray anything on the flower, little bit of effort during the growing season has helped prevent all sorts of outbreaks and even applying sulfur during veg has upped the overall health of the plants and even enhanced the flavor and terpenes


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#12
itchybromusic

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keep an eye out for plants that don't get mildew/mold ben

 

if there are any might be worth making a ferment 

of the fresh growing tips of that plant

 

& add that ferment to your ipm foliar sprays 

cos something is in or on that plant that is protecting

it from mildew/mold  

 

maybe you can tap in to that plant protection & protect

other plants with it 

 

when you can't ipm spray go for health boosts , kelp teas 

aloe vera malted barley & compost extracts 

 

keep in mind allot of these molds come from the soil

environmental conditions can make them more or less active 

try to out compete them in the soil B4 they have a chance to enjoy

& thrive in perfect conditions  


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#13
Try Blu

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Merry Xmas, I hope everyone has a great one. Ho ho ho. :)

 

Good stuff benn0,

Anticipating / expecting pests to show up is the only way to think imo. Once an infestation has established the horse has already bolted like you say. As a grower in the subtropics an IPM programme is essential for me. It’s just what to use, and when that can be the  difficult part to navigate. The adjuvants I use are mostly botanical and or mineral in nature. Thus causing phytotoxicity (sp) issues if applied too close to a sulphur application.......hence my current lack of use of sulphur.

Interesting with the increase in taste and aroma. I’ll look into it a little more.

Laziness during tHe growing season only ends badly for sure. 
I bet you grow some nice plants. Good luck for this season.

 

Good stuff also Itchy.

I do like the way the organic crew go about things........mostly:)   although, currently I sit more on the ‘conventional farmer’ side of the fence.

The ‘Ifs’, ‘mights’ and ‘maybes” of the previous post and organics in general does make me a little hesitant to make the full leap. For now I will cherry pick the best of both until I become braver:)

The reason in part is due to my years supply coming from thE one outDoor harvest each year. 
 

Your last paragraph is where I am concentrating more on this year.

I bet you grow some nice plants also Itchy. Good luck too.

 

 

While searching for more information regarding this I stumbled upon this article, which has me confused as I thought abamectin was considered a ‘bad actor’......at least amongst the cannabis community. Which sort of contradicts the science community. lol lol.

Was thinking of applying this mix to the garden and surrounds. Maybe not directly drenched into my canna pots though. Not sure yet. Any opinions/ additional science welcome.

https://www.longdom....471.1000174.pdf

 

Sorts out thrips, mites and a few others.

Typical label attached for scrutiny. 

https://cdn.speciali...ICIDE_LABEL.pdf


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#14
itchybromusic

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can't say i'm an expert on Abamectin but i don't think it would be anything i would use

 

some years ago there was a product that came out as a pest spray , it was 

expensive & came mostly in very small jars , like 30ml size for $50 or something 

like that , claimed to be completely organic & listed all ingredients , well maybe 

not all ingredients as people found out , everyone was raving about this product 

clearing up spider mites , it was called Guardian & was recommended for use in

veg only , well someone who had a late spider mite infestation used it somewhere 

in the last few weeks of flower , his proceeding lab test on that harvest got pinged

for Abamectin 

 

now to start with we're talking bout labeling , Abamectin is not on any label 

or safety data sheet presented to the dept of Ag = pretty big trouble , for the most 

part presenting products to the dept of ag works on the honor system 

you wright up your own safety data sheet & the dept of ag believe you , however

if it comes to there attention you lied , now your in deep , real deep 

i lost track of the story but my understanding is a couple of people came forward 

claiming the regular use of guardian made the sick , one was quite well respected

grower ended up with some pretty serious nervous system problems 

 

now i know the labeling thing was def a real dept of ag issue , as far as the guys

who claimed sickness from using it i can't say one way or the other to be true

 

again i would be looking into "out competing" , pest vs predator rather than debating 

whether abamectin made me sick or not 

 

what about this , pests & pathogens are natures garbage collectors , the more your

plant is unhealthy the more it will attract pest & pathogen , for natures purpose of removing

weak genetics from the gene pool , plants are stationary they need the help of all kinds 

soil organisms & insects for all kinds of things , pollination being just one of those things 

the more a plant sends out help signals , so to speak , the more of what a plant doesn't want

is attracted to it , this puts my mind on the path to plant health , & first port of call , for me , at least 

is water , cos even a shitty soil kept evenly moist will go further in keeping a plant healthy than

a well amended soil with wet & dry periods , why ? , soil organisms will die or go dormant in dry

condition , plants are using these soil organisms for food & protection , neither of which can be done

while dead or dormant 

 

we don't really want to spray anything on plants cos they really don't like it , but we 

nuke the bad bugs but often good as well , & it's the good that's right on to any visitor turning up on leaves 

way b4 any human knows your plant has guests , we also know if you over feed nitrogen you

get lots lush green growth & often to go with that is a nice infestation of aphid because the now

stretched thin cell walls are much easier to penetrate for tiny little suckers like aphid  

 

if you've got the time have a look / listen to John Kempf at Advancing Eco Agriculture on youtube https://youtu.be/ZNVI-ZNNKi4

as well as looking up the buglady suzanne wainwright on youtube 


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#15
benn0

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Hey Itchy was that Guardian issue in the US? Because I'm fairly sure here in Aust stuff is much stricter and also fairly sure that if a new 'product' wants to be sold on the market that there is a lot of hoops to jump through before a 'product' gets the go ahead and the data safety sheet has to be spot on.


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#16
itchybromusic

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yeah ben it was in the states not here in Oz

 

last time i looked , quite some time ago, i think for the most part there are many hoops but most of those hoops are all at your cost 

so the manufacturer dose all the testing / data sheet writing ect , making it a bit of a honor system 

get caught bullshitin on any of those requirements & you in beep shit yaself , definitely strict  

 

from memory Abamectin is banned in some countries round the world but Australia is not one of them 

 

https://thecannabisi...-with-guardian/

Guardian is a mite spray previously manufactured by All In Enterprises that was labeled as all natural, with ingredients like cinnamon and lemongrass oil. The product was being sold through grow stores across America, and was in heavy use by cannabis cultivators because of its effectiveness against mites and its proposed harmlessness. Unbeknownst to the growers and growshops that were supporting the product, it actually contained a harmful chemical not listed on the label called abamectin.

 

Abamectin is an EPA registered insecticide, with strict tolerances in effect due to its acute toxicity to mammals. The failure to include this active ingredient on the product label is not only misleading and potentially harmful to both the applicator and consumer of the end product, it’s also a federal violation. To further the controversy, the Oregon Department of Agriculture (ODA) released a list of approved pesticides to use in cannabis cultivation and Guardian was on it.

 

OG Analytical discovered the issue when clients repeatedly complained about the finding of abamectin in their organic flowers. After the third client told us they were only using Guardian, we encouraged one of these clients to bring in a sample of the Guardian itself for us to test. Sure enough, it came up hot for abamectin. Because this finding poses both a state and federal violation, we contacted the ODA and turned the issue over to them. By the next morning, they had launched a full investigation into the issue and were already visiting growshops to collect samples of their own. They confirmed our finding from several independent sources across Oregon. The Colorado Department of Agriculture (CDA), upon notice from the ODA, subsequently launched their own investigation and further confirmed the finding in several samples in Colorado.

 

The ODA and CDA have both turned the issue over to the EPA for further investigation. The ODA issued a Stop Sale order on February 5th, and the product has been pulled from grow shop shelves across the nation. They also removed Guardian from the approved list of pesticides, and are encouraging growers to stop using the product. On February 16th, the EPA issued a Federal Stop Sale Order.

 

OG Analytical hosted a brief info-session on this issue at our January Cannabis Science Pub in Eugene, OR. You can check out the video recording at https://www.youtube....h?v=PSP1dc0D0nk for more information, including what to do if you’ve used Guardian in your garden


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#17
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Interesting.
I touched on the divide between the canna community and the scientific community a couple of posts back. I’ll see if I can expand on that without making too much of a mess of this post :)

Not trying to discredit anything anyone is saying. Trying to form a deeper understanding is where I’m at. Critical thinking may be required to sift through the thread.
 

Below info regurgitated from the links provided. Copy and pasted in italics.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3043740/

 

There are few drugs that can seriously lay claim to the title of ‘Wonder drug’, penicillin and aspirin being two that have perhaps had greatest beneficial impact on the health and wellbeing of Mankind. But ivermectin can also be considered alongside those worthy contenders, based on its versatility, safety and the beneficial impact that it has had, and continues to have, worldwide—especially on hundreds of millions of the world’s poorest people.

 

Ivermectin has continually proved to be astonishingly safe for human use. Indeed, it is such a safe drug, with minimal side effects, that it can be administered by non-medical staff and even illiterate individuals in remote rural communities, provided that they have had some very basic, appropriate training. This fact has helped contribute to the unsurpassed beneficial impact that the drug has had on human health and welfare around the globe.

 

 

One of the contentious points is this link that suggests acute toxicity in mammals. https://thecannabisi...-with-guardian/

We are mammals.

Its fed to us, our farm animals, our children, our plants. So I’m not too sure about acute toxicity.

Alcohol and oxygen are toxic in the correct quantities and or environments. 

 

Seems to be the polar opposite of the above linked info. 

I haven’t found it banned in any countries That’s not to say that it isn’t though. :) 

 

Due diligence in researching any products before use is a must imo. Understanding of PHI’s (pre harvest intervals ) WHP’s ( withholding periods), Re entry periods, application rates and timing, half life’s , dissipation rates....rah rah rah the list goes on. Old mate above spraying late in flower with essentially an unknown product is reckless. Every pesticide / fungicide should be accompanyed by an information booklet that addresses the above points. No booklet, they can shove it. I ain’t buying.

 

 

Outcompeting the pest is great advice. I thought that was what this product does???
https://www.longdom....471.1000174.pdf

Abamectin is a natural fermentation product of the soil bacterium Streptomyces.

 

Abamectin has shown low toxicity to non target beneficial arthropods, which was considered a motivation to use it in IPM programs. Abamectin was evaluated against plant parasitic nematodes as seed treatment, soil drench application, and root dipping against several genus of nematodes like Meloidogyne incognita, M. arenaria, M. javenica, Tylenchulus semipenetrans and Rotylenchulus reniformis.

 

Streptomyces are referenced in the approved pest/fung list 

https://www.oregon.g...ideCannabis.pdf

From line no 478 of the list above has the inclusion of this soil bacterium. 
 

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Anthelmintic

  • Abamectin (and by extension ivermectin) - effective against most common intestinal worms, except tapeworms, for which praziquantel is commonly used in conjunction for mass dewormings

 

 

 

My plants seem to enjoy being sprayed. What I mean by that is that after a typical application of ........let’s say neem oil/ aza , while looking good prior they look even better after. Nothing scientific.....just here say. :)


I believe abamectin has translaminar properties. Meaning that the bacterium moves into the leaf. Sort of systemic but without travelling through the plant. Thus making sucking pests susceptible while sparring the good guys. A targeted approach towards pests  which is consistent with recommended IPM practices is it not??

 

Im not sure where I’m going with this. One side of the fence sounds scary, the other seems to be singing it’s benefits from the roof tops. lol lol.

It sort of sounds organic to me.......am I going mad??

Anyways.....food for thought

 

 

Enjoy the Boxing Day cricket.....yay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#18
benn0

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I think the major issue with a lot of chemicals being applied to cannabis is the issue with combustion of flower, like burning the flower, if there is anything applied during flowering, even 2 or 3 weeks into flower it can stick around and then when the flower is burned the chemical is combusted or burned as well and inhaled, where as in food its just sprayed onto the surface of the food which usually has a skin and can be washed off and isn't combusted but consumed


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#19
Try Blu

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Too right benn0,

Smoking is bad for us. 
 

Attached is a Canadian government response to myclobutanil in buds from LP’s ( liscenced providers ) over there. People may be more familiar with the name “eagle 20” which contains this active ingredient. Turns carcinogenic when burnt apparently.

One  of the most controversial I believe, and probably rightfully so.
A systemic fungicide that eradicates powdery mildew etc. It must work well as there was quite a fan club a few years back.....probably still is....sigh. lol.

https://www.canada.c...ndcannabis.html

 

Wild West. lol


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#20
itchybromusic

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are you thinking bout using Ivermectin or Abamectin

 

i thought Ivermectin was the fermentation by Streptomyces & abamectin a Chemical modification 

again don't really know & could be completely wrong , i'm using stoner memory here & i wouldn't trust 

my memory to be right that's for sure 

 

i'm definately aware of Streptomyces & very much into the soil dwellers a number of which are in our gut

 

 

need to keep in mind , Guardian was on a approved for use on cannabis list by whomever the governing body was 

solely based on the ingredient list on the container which did not list abamectin nor did it get a mention on any 

paperwork anywhere 

 

not smart to be spraying anything in flower but in a commercial world where thousands & thousands of dollars are sunk 

into an operation that could fold without a harvest , companies do shit , i'm not saying its cool but we see companies all the time

do shifty shit for the all mighty dollar , from commercial to home grower , ive seen some full on preachy organic growers get some

sort of bug in flower & loose there minds & will use anything & i mean anything to stop the problem , now ! some of these home

growers with that attitude end up as head growers in commercial operations

 

think i saw Brazil had a ban on Abamectin , the Netherlands as well i think not really sure 

cos as i said i ain't any Abamectin expert , apart from the tiny bit of reading done back in 2016

or whenever it was the guardian thing went down 

 

yes breathing is toxic , this is why we try to minimize any toxic exposure in other areas like buying only organic produce or growing it

we know we're getting it anyway so try & control what we can control & we might live a little longer or walk out on the street tomorrow

& get hit by a bus , one or the other :)

 

i think you can find macro pics by bubbleman in which he claims , seedling pic is showing triscombe heads 

if thats true & T heads are in development in veg , should we be really spraying anything on plants at all  

https://www.bubblema...z7gm06rl9x7t14m

 

yeah i can spray plants with aloe or kelp tea & they look just as healthy as they did b4 i sprayed

& rain while having a lighting/thunder storm they get a nice hit of nitrogen out of the air , plants love it 

 

just not so sure bout oils though , yes i can use aloe & potassium silicate to help with emulsification of an oil 

& the plant looks happy & healthy , still don't think they appreciate it cos apart from rain & nitrogen out of the air 

they would never in nature get sprayed with a kelp tea , doesn't mean you can't have different types of foliar 

spray hacks , bigger a growers toolbox the better imho

 

but hey Blu i'm not here telling what you & Ben should or shouldn't do that's your call brother , i've chose my path & 

am happy with my choice , am i doing the right thing ? well , time will tell but i can def say things are always evolving

stuff i thought a few years ago are not the same now , never stop learning but that learning will only take

place & be maximized when it relates to you in some way shape or form , so a conversation now might mean nothing

but in a years time that convo has legs , walks & talks :)


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Glandore Hydroponic Nutrients, Lights and Equipment
International Cannabis Cultivation Questionnaire
WARNING/DISCLAIMER The OZ Stoners cannabis community contains information regarding cannabis & other drugs; it is designed for mature (18+) audiences only. This site in no way condones the use of cannabis by minors. The content here within this cannabis community is for educational & entertainment purposes only. Any buying/selling or trading of illegal cannabis seeds, clones, flowers, resin or oil is strictly prohibited within this cannabis community.