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Fungus Gnats or Something Else?

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#11
midlifegardner

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I'm going to avoid a H2O2 drench, because organic and don't wanna kill my bennies. But got some neem oil from Dr GT. First time using neem and it has advice for spray. What mix should I use for a drench?

Fair call, but I just like hearing the top layer fizz :) The larvae after that are dead for sure. No doubt. You're only putting it on the top 1cm or so and after it dies its work its just oxygen.

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#12
Porky 1982

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Put about 70ml in a 9lt watering can and go for it. It should look a light milky colour.

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#13
kloud9

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I'm going to avoid a H2O2 drench, because organic and don't wanna kill my bennies. But got some neem oil from Dr GT. First time using neem and it has advice for spray. What mix should I use for a drench?

30mls per 10 litres I say, that's what mine is..

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#14
Carbcon

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Predator mites.

Californicus or persimilis I think.

Check the bugs for bugs website.

I chased gnats a few times.

Got some californicus last time..

100% kill rate.

Neem is good, use it too.

No fucking about with the predators. Won't hurt your good soil biology either.
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#15
afgahn bob

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ferking fungus gnats

 

I think we all battled em at least once

 

only one thing worse.....spider mites

 

or maybe fungus mites or spider gnats.........scary thought

 

neem and yellow sticky traps, try spreading diamatatious diomotatious  earth....D.E  around top 5mm of top soil

 

all else fails drop a nuke on little fukers


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#16
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I've also sprinkled DE all over the top. And I'll continue to read up on neem soaks, they'll get it tomorrow. Should I neem spray the leaves too?
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#17
Carbcon

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De works when dry.
The sprinkle I saw a pic of won't do much.

Yes U can foliar the leaves with Neem in veg.

Yes you can soak the pots in a neem solution.

I wouldn't soak them in anything if they are still overwatered.

Best thing for gnats is to avoid them.

Overwatering attracts them.
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#18
kloud9

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And would neem cake on top soil help also ?

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#19
itchybromusic

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yes neem cake would def help , there's a little bit of neem oil left in the crushed neem seed ( neem cake ) 

also making a kelp & neem cake tea , neem for the bugs , & a lill nutrients , & kelp for the plant health boost 

you could also add aloe vera for more plant boosting & the saponins in aloe can work as a pesticide 

 

fungus gnats eat fungus , in coco the only place you might find fungus to eat 

is attached to the roots of the plant , we all know it as mycorrhizal fungi

hence the idea fungus gnats eat roots = no they eat fungus attached to roots 

the root damage is collateral from fungus consumption 

 

in soil especially living soil , there are or should be plenty of fungus for the gnats to consume

it's still possible for the gnats to eat fungus attached to roots but there should be plenty of options 

other than root fungus for them to consume 

 

imho best to work on "out competing" unwanted pests which is the exact opposite to what most 

recommend = let the soil or top soil dry out , this is most likely good thinking if you are in a synthetic

system but not so good for the living soil growers , drying out the soil kills or forces dormancy

on the microorganisms , these soil dwellers are growing & protecting your plant & need a constant 

moisture level to thrive & keep there territory & food source protected , need to be careful with moisture

cos over moistening removes oxygen & changes conditions in the soil , by doing this another bunch of

microorganisms start to thrive , some will be good but most will be bad 

 

i say mulching is good as it helps to keep that soil moist for the soil dwellers to keep the nutrient cycling happening

as they consume the mulch layer as well as what was mentioned above with protecting there turf

over watering is bad as it changes conditions to be not suitable for beneficial organisms & depletes there power 

to protect the plant & there turf 

 

IPM is very important especially growing indoors where you loose half the soil food web from not being outdoors 

gnats can be in bags of soil brought from stores that store the bagged soils outdoors like bunnings do

 

but allot of the time gnats come in to the grow room on you , your outside playing with the dog in the backyard 

then you walk in to your grow room bringing a bunch bugs in with you , more so if the dog comes in as well 

so be aware you could be the problem 

 

spaying neem or using predictor bugs like carbcon mentioned are both good ideas just not at the same time 

as the neem might take out some good dudes as well as the bad ones 

using essential oils like rosemary as a pesticide & thyme oil as a fungicide , saponins in aloe as mentioned 

you can use potassium silicate for it's boosting & protecting qualities as well as EM-1 soil drench & foliar sprays 

 

all these things can help protect your plant & should be used as part of everyday growing as prevention 

don't wait to see bugs b4 trying to control an infestation , be preemptive with your Integrated Pest Management 

 

why neem

From the University of Waikato, New Zealand is this helpful article on the how & why Neem products function.

Neem protects itself from the multitude of pests with a multitude of pesticidal ingredients. Its main chemical broadside is a mixture of

3 or 4 related compounds, and it backs these up with 20 or so others that are minor but nonetheless active in one way or another.

In the main, these compounds belong to a general class of natural products called "triterpenes"; more specifically, "limonoids."

LIMONOIDS

So far, at least nine neem limonoids have demonstrated an ability to block insect growth, affecting a range of species that includes some

of the most deadly pests of agriculture and human health. New limonoids are still being discovered in neem, but Azadirachtin, Salannin,

Meliantriol and Nimbin are the best known and, for now at least, seem to be the most significant.

Azadirachtin

One of the first active ingredients isolated from neem, azadirachtin has proved to be the tree's main agent for battling insects. It appears to

cause some 90 percent of the effect on most pests. It does not kill insects - at least not immediately. Instead it both repels and disrupts their

growth and reproduction. Research over the past 20 years has shown that it is one of the most potent growth regulators and feeding deterrents

ever assayed. It will repel or reduce the feeding of many species of pest insects as well as some nematodes. In fact, it is so potent that a mere

trace of its presence prevents some insects from even touching plants.

Azadirachtin is structurally similar to insect hormones called "ecdysones," which control the process of metamorphosis as the insects pass from

larva to pupa to adult. It affects the corpus cardiacum, an organ similar to the human pituitary, which controls the secretion of hormones.

Metamorphosis requires the careful synchrony of many hormones and other physiological changes to be successful, and azadirachtin seems to

be an "ecdysone blocker." It blocks the insect's production and release of these vital hormones. Insects then will not molt. This of course breaks their life cycle.

On average, neem kernels contain between 2 and 4 mg of Azadirachtin per gram of kernel. The highest figure so far reported - 9 mg per g - was measured in samples from Senegal.

Although thousand-year-old Sanskrit medical writings mention neem's usefulness, the tree's exciting potential for controlling insects has only recently become clear.

Neem's ability to repel insects was first reported in the scientific literature in 1928 and 1929. Two Indian scientists, R.N. Chopra and M.A. Husain, used a O.001-

percent aqueous suspension of ground neem kernels to repel desert locusts. Not until 1962, however, was the real significance demonstrated. That year, in field

tests in New Delhi, S. Pradhan ground up neem kernels in water and sprayed the resulting suspension over different crops. He found that, although locusts landed

on the plants, they refused to eat anything, sometimes for up to 3 weeks after the treatment. Furthermore, he noted that neem kernels were even more potent than

the conventional insecticides then available and that neem's repellency was as important as its toxicity. In neighboring insecticide-treated fields, for instance, the

insects also died, but not before consuming the crops.

Neem's insect-growth-regulating (IGR) effects were independently observed in England and Kenya in 1972. In England, L.N.E. Ruscoe, at that time an employee

of the ICI Company, tested Azadirachtin on insect pests such as cabbage white butterfly (Pieris brassicae) and cotton stainer bug (Dysdercus fasciatus) and noted

IGR effects in each case. The Azadirachtin was provided by D. Morgan, a Keele University chemist who had been the first to isolate Azadirachtin. In Kenya that

same year, K. Leuschner, a German graduate student working at the Coffee Research Station in Upper Kiambu, observed that a methanolic neemleaf extract

controlled the coffee bug (Antestiopsis orbitalis bechuana) by growth-regulating effects. Most fifth-instar nymphs treated with the extract died during subsequent

molts and the few that survived to adulthood had malformed wings and thoraxes.

Neem's fecundity-reducing effects were first recorded by R. Steets (another graduate student) and H. Schmutterer in Germany. Applying methanolic neem-kernel

extract and Azadirachtin to the Mexican bean beetle (Epilachna varivestis) and the Colorado potato beetle (Leptinotarsa decemlineata) they found that females

almost stopped laying eggs. Some females had been completely sterilized, and the effect was irreversible.

Meliantriol

Another feeding inhibitor, Meliantriol, is able, in extremely low concentrations, to cause insects to cease eating. The demonstration of its ability to prevent locusts

chewing on crops was the first scientific proof for neem's traditional use for insect control on India's crops.

Salannin

Yet a third triterpenoid isolated from neem is Salannin. Studies indicate that this compound also powerfully inhibits feeding, but does not influence insect molts.

The migratory locust, California red scale, striped cucumber beetle, houseflies, and the Japanese beetle have been strongly deterred in both laboratory and field tests.

Nimbin and Nimbidin

Two more neem components, Nimbin and Nimbidin, have been found to have antiviral activity. They affect potato virus X, vaccinia virus, and fowl pox virus.

They could perhaps open a way to control these and other viral diseases of crops and livestock.

Nimbidin is the primary component of the bitter principles obtained when neem seeds are extracted with alcohol. It occurs in sizable quantities - about 2% of the kernel.

Others
 

Certain minor ingredients also work as antihormones. Research has shown that some of these minor neem chemicals even paralyze the "swallowing mechanism"

and so prevent insects from eating. Examples of these newly found limonoids from neem include DeacetylAzadirachtinol. This ingredient, isolated from fresh fruits,

appears to be as effective as Azadirachtin in assays against the tobacco budworm, but it has not yet been widely tested in field practice.


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#20
kloud9

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Cheers itchy, very helpful as usual.. :)

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Edited by kloud9, 26 May 2019 - 11:48 AM.

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