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My cuttings are dying! AAAAHHH!

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#1
brownies

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Hey folks!

 

I don't often frequent the vegge gardening section of the forum (despite my love of vegetables) but I have a recurring problem and I can't understand why :twiddle:

 

I have absolutely no problems when growing cannabis but whenever I take cuttings of other plants, they all end up dying! :unknw:

 

The missus and I went on a little adventure yesterday, visiting all of the local community gardens and local food forests in order to acquire some cuttings. The cuttings we took were all at least 10-15cm long, all seemed to be healthy and none of them wilted or became sick after being removed from their mother plants. Now unfortunately we did get sidetracked before potting them up at home so they would have been potted probably 3-4 hours later.

 

Although they weren't potted immediately, as soon as we got home, I kept them moist and in my little seedling tray greenhouse (your $10 bunnings kind - works a treat for the cannabis babies).

 

When I did pot them, I used a mix of 2/3 organic garden soil with 1/3 organic compost. I mixed the two together well and whacked it into the terracotta pots I had laying around. I then gave the soil a little soak with some room temp water as it was farking freezing outside at an average of around 12-14 degrees.

 

I did let some of the water drain but the soil was still very saturated when I planted the cuttings. I made new 45 degree cuts on the cuttings with clean, sharp garden snips, dipped em in Clonex purple (seems to work fine for canna) and then popped em in their pots.

 

I potted them around 7pm so I was a little concerned about the temperature and decided they'd benefit from some warmth over night so I popped them in the grow tent under the LED. To keep them extra comfy and protected from the cold of my concrete garage floor which the tent was sitting on, I put the pots on top of polystyrene boxes.

 

Aside from that, I opened up the 2 passive vents at the bottom of the grow tent to allow for some fresh air as I didn't want them to cook under the 800w LED overnight - although it was certainly a safe distance away.

 

 

THE ISSUE: I took a peek at them this morning and they've all completely wilted! They look sad :( and that makes me sad because the last time we took cuttings from plants that weren't canna, they all ended up dying too! :(

 

I know it's only been less than a day since I potted them and wilting isn't a sure sign of death but I feel like I'm obviously doing something wrong. Is there some fundamental difference between cloning canna and other plants? Some vital piece of information I'm missing? A fundamental step that I've neglected in the process? None of this happens when I grow things from seed and certainly not when I buy plants from the nursery or wherever and transplant them. It only seems to be an issue when I take cuttings from existing (non-cannabis) plants. I just want ma little baby plants to live! :crybaby:

 

Help would be appreciated! :please:


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#2
itchybromusic

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first , there are 2 cloning gets soft wood & hard wood , anyway you prob know that already 

 

temps & humidity is very important with most plants , you could also have probs this time of year with some plants going into dormancy

 

if taking cuttings at home the first thing i would do is make sure the mum your taking the cut from is healthy , make a compost tea &

steep some kelp , 1 1/4 teaspoons per liter for 24hrs , strain & foliar feed the mum a few times over the week or 2 B4 ( steep kelp strain spray & use , don't store ) 

 

i would also add to a soil drench or foliar feed for mum , aloe vera & lactic acid bacteria which you can make at home or buy as EM-1 

Attached File  LAB.JPG   159.58K   35 downloads the one you buy is a lill diff & offers a bit more bang for your buck so to speak but at the same time , at home . your culturing iindigenous microorganisms

 

many things you can use as rooting hormones , some use honey even , have you heard of willow water , if you have a willow tree 

just the first link that popped up in a google search https://permaculture...g-willow-water/ you'd find 

more on canna forums 

 

otherwise kelp & aloe have rooting hormones that are in your clonex Attached File  aloe clones.JPG   97.88K   40 downloads not my pic 

 

the 4 hours would have been good had the cuts been able to sit in a kelp &/or aloe solution which is one way to go about 

taking cuts when away from home = soak the cuts for few hours B4 plugging them 

 

from Clackamascoot

 

 

If you're not opposed to using RapidRooters this will give you at least 90% success rate.  
  
Adjust the quantities for your situation. 
  
Add 5 tsps. of kelp meal to 1 gallon of water. Let that sit for 24 hours and shake and strain & drain.

This will be your base and you want to add 1/4 cup of aloe vera juice, gel, whatever term you use.  
  
Soak the plugs for a few minutes in this tea and you won't be wasting anything because you can apply

the excess to your mature plants. 
  
Take the plugs and gently squeeze them - not to get them dry but to remove the excess water. You want

damp but not like mud as far as water. 
  
Put these in seedling trays that fit in a standard domed seedling tray. The goal is to avoid the leaves of

one plant touching another and you want to avoid touching the inside of the dome. 
  
When you take your cuts use a fresh single-edge razor blade. At the very least if you're using a used

one then wipe it off with alcohol before taking your cuts.  
  
Take your cuttings and soak them in the tea that you made for the plugs. Take a bamboo kabob stick and

on the flat-end and not the point, turn your plugs upside down and make a new hole which will insure that

the tea in the plug makes good contact with the cutting's shaft. 
  
After you place the cuttings in the plugs then you want to spray the inside of the dome until you see the

water beading-up. To the extent possible you want to maintain that moisture level. Don't spray the cuttings

because it's a good way to introduce mold and other problems. 
  
Put them under a shop-light if nothing else, The inexpensive T5 lights at Home Depot (around $50.00) are

better but you'll do fine with shop-lights. 
  
Both kelp meal and aloe vera juice contain the 3 main rooting compounds found in retail products but of

course they're synthetic versions and this will be straight from the plant - salicylic acid (SA), indole-3-acetic

acid (IAA) and indole-3-butyric acid (IBA) which are probably in the rooting compound you have.  
  
The one that you will find in retail products that is not part of this is Naphthalene Acetic Acid (NAA) which

is also used as a pesticide approved by EPA, i.e. it's a registered agricultural-grade pesticide. 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

1. Aloe Vera: Salicylic acid is a plant compound which has been used as a rooting agent for over 120 years in the nursery industry.

This is the compound that's found in Willow trees which you might have run across in posts on rooting a cutting

2. Kelp: Kelp contains the natural forms of rooting compounds that you find in commercial products, compounds like

Indole-3-acetic acid (IAA), Indole-3-butyric acid (IBA), 4-Chloroindole-3-acetic acid and Phenylacetic acid which are auxins (hormones - all auxins

are hormones but not all hormones are auxins). These compounds perform different functions as far as facilitating root development, i.e. IAA creates

the actual root sites on the cutting's shaft whereas IBA causes root elongation. All of these are in soluble form and are in an organic form vs. the

versions found in Clonex, Dip-n-Grow, Olivia's, whatever.

3. Honey: Honey contains a slew of enzymes, amino acids and also contain compounds which function as a biofungicide exactly like Aloe Vera extracts.

 


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#3
micmac

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Did u put them straight into water?
Once air gets into the stems it’s all over , the cutting will die straight away
Think of it like a car tyre, once it looses pressure it goes flat, same as your cutting instead it dies


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#4
AutomaticSlim

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After initially cutting the clone of the plant cut again with a sharp, sterile blade. I cut the site underwater in a glass or bowl (diagonally of course).
Then when you pull the cutting out it has a drip of water encapsulating the site.
Straight into rooting solution. This method stops air getting to the site. I use an icy pole stick to brace the cutting when slicing underwater. If i dont i end up saying fuck it and slicing into my finger instead.


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Edited by AutomaticSlim, 20 May 2018 - 08:47 PM.

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#5
brownies

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first , there are 2 cloning gets soft wood & hard wood , anyway you prob know that already 

 

temps & humidity is very important with most plants , you could also have probs this time of year with some plants going into dormancy

 

if taking cuttings at home the first thing i would do is make sure the mum your taking the cut from is healthy , make a compost tea &

steep some kelp , 1 1/4 teaspoons per liter for 24hrs , strain & foliar feed the mum a few times over the week or 2 B4 ( steep kelp strain spray & use , don't store ) 

 

i would also add to a soil drench or foliar feed for mum , aloe vera & lactic acid bacteria which you can make at home or buy as EM-1 

attachicon.gifLAB.JPG the one you buy is a lill diff & offers a bit more bang for your buck so to speak but at the same time , at home . your culturing iindigenous microorganisms

 

many things you can use as rooting hormones , some use honey even , have you heard of willow water , if you have a willow tree 

just the first link that popped up in a google search https://permaculture...g-willow-water/ you'd find 

more on canna forums 

 

otherwise kelp & aloe have rooting hormones that are in your clonex attachicon.gifaloe clones.JPG not my pic 

 

the 4 hours would have been good had the cuts been able to sit in a kelp &/or aloe solution which is one way to go about 

taking cuts when away from home = soak the cuts for few hours B4 plugging them 

 

from Clackamascoot

 

 

If you're not opposed to using RapidRooters this will give you at least 90% success rate.  
  
Adjust the quantities for your situation. 
  
Add 5 tsps. of kelp meal to 1 gallon of water. Let that sit for 24 hours and shake and strain & drain.

This will be your base and you want to add 1/4 cup of aloe vera juice, gel, whatever term you use.  
  
Soak the plugs for a few minutes in this tea and you won't be wasting anything because you can apply

the excess to your mature plants. 
  
Take the plugs and gently squeeze them - not to get them dry but to remove the excess water. You want

damp but not like mud as far as water. 
  
Put these in seedling trays that fit in a standard domed seedling tray. The goal is to avoid the leaves of

one plant touching another and you want to avoid touching the inside of the dome. 
  
When you take your cuts use a fresh single-edge razor blade. At the very least if you're using a used

one then wipe it off with alcohol before taking your cuts.  
  
Take your cuttings and soak them in the tea that you made for the plugs. Take a bamboo kabob stick and

on the flat-end and not the point, turn your plugs upside down and make a new hole which will insure that

the tea in the plug makes good contact with the cutting's shaft. 
  
After you place the cuttings in the plugs then you want to spray the inside of the dome until you see the

water beading-up. To the extent possible you want to maintain that moisture level. Don't spray the cuttings

because it's a good way to introduce mold and other problems. 
  
Put them under a shop-light if nothing else, The inexpensive T5 lights at Home Depot (around $50.00) are

better but you'll do fine with shop-lights. 
  
Both kelp meal and aloe vera juice contain the 3 main rooting compounds found in retail products but of

course they're synthetic versions and this will be straight from the plant - salicylic acid (SA), indole-3-acetic

acid (IAA) and indole-3-butyric acid (IBA) which are probably in the rooting compound you have.  
  
The one that you will find in retail products that is not part of this is Naphthalene Acetic Acid (NAA) which

is also used as a pesticide approved by EPA, i.e. it's a registered agricultural-grade pesticide. 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

1. Aloe Vera: Salicylic acid is a plant compound which has been used as a rooting agent for over 120 years in the nursery industry.

This is the compound that's found in Willow trees which you might have run across in posts on rooting a cutting

2. Kelp: Kelp contains the natural forms of rooting compounds that you find in commercial products, compounds like

Indole-3-acetic acid (IAA), Indole-3-butyric acid (IBA), 4-Chloroindole-3-acetic acid and Phenylacetic acid which are auxins (hormones - all auxins

are hormones but not all hormones are auxins). These compounds perform different functions as far as facilitating root development, i.e. IAA creates

the actual root sites on the cutting's shaft whereas IBA causes root elongation. All of these are in soluble form and are in an organic form vs. the

versions found in Clonex, Dip-n-Grow, Olivia's, whatever.

3. Honey: Honey contains a slew of enzymes, amino acids and also contain compounds which function as a biofungicide exactly like Aloe Vera extracts.

 

Itchybro you're my new mentor haha :thumbsup:

 

I got the purple as it's the one I use for canna and I don't think many of the cuttings we'll be taking are hardwood.

 

Excuse the ignorance in regards to the term "dormancy" but is that suggesting the mother plant isn't suitable to take cuttings at this time or simply that cuttings have a harder time rooting and it's them that could go into dormancy?

 

That LAS tutorial is awesome! Fark buying stuff when I can make it at home! Although those instructions are a little hard to understand. Rice wash? Does that mean just start with plain washed rice? Or is rice wash something entirely different? lol Will any rice work because the missus and I predominantly eat brown rice? Is the rice bran you put on top in step 4, the rice bran that is floating on top of the mix in step 3? I know that sounds like a really naive question but ya never know - don't want to fark it up lol Crude sugar I imagine is raw sugar yes? And I assume it has to be that particular type of sugar right? How much sugar should one use? Where it says "or same amount of LAS", this is an alternative to using the sugar?

 

Sorry for all the questions Itchybro, I've only watched a couple of Chris Trump's KNF video's so far as I've been a little busy so I'm still a complete novice on the KNF front lol

 

Seeing as the cuts weren't sitting in the kelp/aloe solution, does that mean they won't form roots and will die? Cloning is so much easier when your plant is at home and you have everything on hand! Going around to various gardens is our only way of getting free plants though lol Anyone been to a nursery lately and seen the price o' plants... ridiculous <_<

 

That willow water tutorial is great! Going to go on a willow tree hunt and take some cuttings off that to make some lol

 

The recipe in bold is even better! I have multiple Aloe plants at home! Woooo! Off to the store to buy some kelp methinks! :D

 

When taking the cuttings from gardens, do you think it's worth taking honey, willow water or the DIY rooting gel along with us and putting the cuttings straight into it until we get home? Is it detrimental for them to sit in this solution for too long? 

 

Thanks again for all of the useful info Itchybro, I really appreciate you taking the time to put it all together! Sorry I hadn't responded sooner, we've had a busy couple of days here! But I'll definitely be trying all of these methods - especially when clonex costs $11 for a little pot! 


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#6
billygoat

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If you left them out of water for 3-4 hours after cutting.. then that’s the problem.
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#7
brownies

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Did u put them straight into water?
Once air gets into the stems it’s all over , the cutting will die straight away
Think of it like a car tyre, once it looses pressure it goes flat, same as your cutting instead it dies


Sent from my iPhone using OZ Stoners

 

When you say it will die straight away, do you mean it will be past the point where it will be able to root and be of any benefit as a cutting or are you suggesting that it will die immediately? It's been 2 days and as far as I can tell, all of the cuttings are still alive in their new pots. Although it's hard to tell if there is or will be any root formation given that I put them in rather large terracotta pots (large compared to the cuttings - not too big).

 

After initially cutting the clone of the plant cut again with a sharp, sterile blade. I cut the site underwater in a glass or bowl (diagonally of course).
Then when you pull the cutting out it has a drip of water encapsulating the site.
Straight into rooting solution. This method stops air getting to the site. I use an icy pole stick to brace the cutting when slicing underwater. If i dont i end up saying fuck it and slicing into my finger instead.


Sent from my SM-G935F using OZ Stoners mobile app

 

Underwater sounds like a good idea given the air situation! I did make two cuts; an initial straight cut when they were taken off the mother plants and then later the 45 degree angle cut about 2-3cm above just before dipping them in rooting gel and potting them up. Although given what you and micmac have said about air and needing to do it immediately, it was for nothing I suppose lol

 

Thanks for the handy info guys! I'll upload a couple of pics of the cuttings soon! :thumbsup:


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#8
brownies

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If you left them out of water for 3-4 hours after cutting.. then that’s the problem.

 

Sorry Billy, didn't see your post! Must've come in just as I was finishing up the last one! lol

 

Yeah it seems like that's the general consensus. I'll see how they go for a week just in case by some divine miracle they end up rooting and surviving. If they don't though, I think we'll take rooting gel with us and pre-fill some toilet roll tubes with soil to do it on site next time.

 

Thanks for the info Billy! :thumbsup:


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#9
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Just take a bucket with a bit of water in the bottom and chuck them in as you cut them off.
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#10
brownies

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Just take a bucket with a bit of water in the bottom and chuck them in as you cut them off.

 

Well that's a whole lot easier lol Thanks Billy!


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Barneys Farm Cannabis Seeds
Glandore Hydroponic Nutrients, Lights and Equipment
WARNING/DISCLAIMER The OZ Stoners cannabis community contains information regarding cannabis & other drugs; it is designed for mature (18+) audiences only. This site in no way condones the use of cannabis by minors. The content here within this cannabis community is for educational & entertainment purposes only. Any buying/selling or trading of illegal cannabis seeds, clones, flowers, resin or oil is strictly prohibited within this cannabis community.