Clawing new growth at 12wks veg

[nici]

Hi all bit of a curly one here. As of about 4 days ago Ive noticed most of the new growth clawing on one of my mothers. It started the day after giving her a trim and taking a couple of clones and has gotten worse over the last 4 days or so with the tips now showing a little burning too. Odd thing is Ive had no issues for the last 12wks in the soil it only happened after taking the cuttings.

 

Thought it might be N toxicity so flushed her well with run off being 6.4 but just wanting other ideas of what it could be? Temps are stable around 25/26 with humidity around 60%. Ill post a picture up later tonight but any help would be appreciated.

[itchybromusic]

Hey mate 

 

did you feed with anything after taking cuts & trimming 

 

had a dig round the soil to see if you have any root visitors 

[nici]

Hey mate

 

did you feed with anything after taking cuts & trimming

 

had a dig round the soil to see if you have any root visitors

I did give her a neem and silica feed the day before but nothing after. There have been some gnats hanging around but not plague numbers however i have noticed them sometimes fly out from between the pot and soil (growing in geopots); hmmm perhaps I need to backfill since the soil has shrunk away from the pots slightly....? Its odd though cos all other leaves are healthy its just the newer growth.

[itchybromusic]

I did give her a neem and silica feed the day before but nothing after. There have been some gnats hanging around but not plague numbers however i have noticed them sometimes fly out from between the pot and soil (growing in geopots); hmmm perhaps I need to backfill since the soil has shrunk away from the pots slightly....? Its odd though cos all other leaves are healthy its just the newer growth.

when you say neem do you mean neem oil & silica foliar spray , with lights off 

 

if the soil has shrunk from the side generally means it's been drying out , could be why gnat numbers are low  

if you use peat it can go hydrophobic on you & not except water very easy , how heavy is the pot after watering 

 

do you have any aloe vera

[nici]

It was a neem oil soil drenching with a bit of liquid silica added. I do have some aloe so would you suggest a light feed with that? The soil does have peat added and up until my flush the other day I was giving them 500ml every couple of days with a 1lt feed once a week with either aloe or neem oil in 8lt pots.

 

I also have some neem cake which I might lighly top dress with to see if it kills off the gnats for good.

[itchybromusic]

i don't generally use neem oil in a soil drench only foliar sprays 

i use neem cake top dresses in small amounts 

 

you might have over used the neem in soil drenching , not necessarily the amount used but maybe frequency of use

keep in mind you can make a neem cake tea which is prob a better choice than oil as a drench

 

from another forum 

 

1/2 cup neem seem meal with 1/4 cup kelp meal bubbled in 5 gal water for 24hrs
I keep the cloth bags worms are shipped in and use those to put whatever I'm bubbling

in so it stays contained.To this finished tea before watering I'll add powdered aloe at 

1/4tsp per gal and fulvic acid at 10ml per gal. For new soils or soils that are lacking 

this can and should be used at half to full strength and as often as once weekly, maybe

alternating with an alfalfa/kelp tea at the same amount. I dilute the 5gal tea to whatever I

need and that's more often than not 20gal water. 

if there is space in the pot from root ball shrinkage add fresh soil down the sides 

& water in with aloe & fulvic , aloe a good stress reliever & fulvic is the chelation 

 

aloe foliar sprays are also handy , so is a morning spring water spray , like morning due & a bit of a leaf wash 

 

water slowly to help re hydrate the pot if that's what's happened  

[nici]

Just got home and took a couple of pics. She is looking a little better with the clawing not as servre as yesterday. I think youre right itchy, looks more to be the dry/wet spells causing the issue.

 

Ill use neem top dress in small amounts with a neem/kelp tea for once a week waterings from now on I think with aloe foiler.

 

 

 

 

[Qwobbler]

Before you took the cuttings and before the soil drench, was she bone dry in the soil mate? I've noticed with my mothers in the past that if the soil is bone dry the day before you cut, you get some weird growth over the next few days. Stress... If it was bone dry then giving some neem may have burnt some feeder roots that were searching for water.

[itchybromusic]

hey mate 

i do think the watering can cause probs , the drying out part doesn't keep a happy soil life for one , but every action has a re action 

keeping the pots moist makes a happier environment for bugs like gnats along with higher temps ect ect 

 

also neem is being debated at the mo , good or bad for soil life , the thinking , anything that detracts form soil life is not good 

the amount of neem meal in a soil mix & weather it detracts to much from the building of soil life is the debate 

 

neem oil however is a lill diff than the left over crushed seed , oils like neem , need UV a b & c outdoors to help break it down after a foliar , you don't get much of that indoors but 

you get zero under ground , so i would avoid using oils in a soil drench & why a neem cake tea would be better option considering there is still 

around 10 to 15% oil left in the cake or meal after pressing & not just 100% oil going in the ground  

 

like anything though to much is to much & as i said B4 might not be the amount you use at the one time but the accumulative effect of regular use & as Q mentioned dry soil & neem 

that oil being trapped under soil & not being broken down in the usual way with UV , also neem is systemic it does get in the plant & takes time to be removed 

4 to 6 weeks is my understanding 

 

IPM is important but so is mixing up what you do as part of that IPM , oil sprays = neem , rosemary = pesticide , thyme = fungicide

also the use of silica & aloe will all add to plant health , the saponins in aloe can help & work as a pesticide , nematodes you can buy

that will kill the gnat larvae then eat organic matter i& help to create humus 

 

cloning is all about mum health , here is a watering regime which will help with that

 

C&P From the No Till Revisited Thread on another forum : 

 

Here’s an example of a tried and true watering schedule (because I personally used it for years) to use from day 1

to ensure your plants are being pushed to ‘peak health’ and expressing their full ‘genetic potential.’:

Day 1 Plain water
Day 2 No watering
Day 3 MBP top-dress watered in with Aloe/Fulvic/Silica 
Day 4 No watering
Day 5 Plain water
Day 6 Neem/Kelp tea
Day 7 No watering
Day 8 Plain water
Day 9 No watering
Day 10 Coconut Water
Day 11 No watering

REPEAT - Beginning to end, no changes needed for various stages of growth

[itchybromusic]

Oh sorry just in case

 

MBP = Malted Barley Powder = malted barley seed after a coffee machine grind