Hydro grower moving to outdoor soil and cannot get it right! Help&

[Qwobbler]

Just thinking too....

 

This is the prep for a small winter outdoor grow.... Should I just transfer into 15lt pots now and be done with it? (I figured the 15lt poly bad are a good size for small winter plants.... although they are being begged for 4-5 weeks before going outdoor to flower

 

Or wait untol the 4lt fill out with roots?

 

Its just they could be a bit over watered and they dont seem to be drinkning realt fast, even in the full dry hot sun we have rigth now

 

 

Hope im making sense... The meds have me a bit dizzy and confused today Got that overwhelming feeling and just want the problem to correct over night

Edited March 20, 2016 by qwobbler

[Sir PsychoHashy]

The name of the potting mix is literally "Searle's premium potting mix", that's what was written on the bags but I haven't bought any for near 18 months so they might have changed the name.  I used it because it doesn't have bits of pine bark in it, and pretty sure there were no water crystals either.  Has some slow release ferts in it, but not in over the top amounts, and I figured with the amount of inert medium I was adding they wouldn't do much.

 

Wait for a soil expert on this, but I would have thought amending a sandy soil (I'm assuming granite belt) would have been a good start as it already has good drainage, just not much organic top soil stuff.  There's a tute on here somewhere about prepping those cheap coco bricks, which I mostly followed when I tried them, but I got shit results, having said that there were a couple of other factors as well including the fact that I thought mixing a bit of the local soil in would be alright, it wasn't.  I've used pre buffered hydro grade coco ever since and been much happier.

 

I'd wait until the 4l pots are dry before potting up, and put them into moist but not saturated soil mix.  I had the thought of overwatering when I saw the pic, but there appears to be more going on.

 

Personally if you're worried about getting some fresh meds into jars, I'd go back to whatever grow medium you've grown successfully in in the past for a quick replenishing grow while you try to figure out a good soil mix that works.  You can do hydro outdoors, it works well, only problem is dealing with rain getting into your medium, but there's various ways to deal with that.

[itchybromusic]

Hey Q 

no you don't have to worry about PH in organics & yes don't use PH up down 

But you need to have life in that soil for that to work otherwise it's almost like a coco mix , ok it's a big almost 

 

when using peat you must have some Liming going on to begin with then the bene's take over , this is

why soil guy's talk about cooking there mix really it's getting the life in to gear & feeding on amendments

this makes those amendments available to the plant asap

 

over watering is easy to do as is under watering , to keep the life in the pot you can't let it dry out , keeping a mulch on top will help 

this is against what i used to do , i always would let the top dry for the purpose of gnats which worked well but there are so many negatives

in doing that , 1 you loose root space - roots won't grow in dry soil & the main root space your loosing is feeder root space ,

where in the wild is most of the food , on the surface ,leaves , poo , the ground is never visible in the forest , it's always covered

because bene's can't live  & work in dry conditions

 

also it's easier to build & keep life in larger pots , I've used 7gal geo's but have been told the minimum size should be 10gal & bigger

 

seedlings should be kept in there pot until roots have filled the container just enough to hold the soil together while you transplant

don't want spinning roots at the bottom of the pot transplant B4 then

 

i would be buying compost or castings rather than more searles , Hashy makes good points , def more organic matter in sandy soils

plus i would rather have the inoculation that compost or castings will give you rather than a pretty much dead bag from the shop ,

cool amendments but no life  

 

can't exactly find what i was looking for but found what it was you add when making a coco & soil mix Sul-Po-Mag don't know amounts

or the info i have read , I'll keep looking

 

 

 

[Qwobbler]

Love you guys, great to be back online and absorbing good information. 

 

Ya's have got me calm.

 

I was curious so opened up one of the 4lt bags to see what was going on root wise..... It was very wet, brown ugly roots and were just not going anywhere.... Going to let the rest dry out over the next few days then see if i can revive them Not stressing too much, I was lucky enough to have a very good old friend drive out and help me out with some green meds for nothing! Stoners are such peaceful and caring people hahaha

 

Going to start a fresh batch in Coco. I have enough nutes for 1 grow still If ya's remember my Auto's last year, they werre done in coco outdoors and, yes, your right hashy, it did work and the rain shouldnt be a prob since we are about to go into drought after this last monsoon pushes through.

 

While I get going what I know best, I will be experimenting with this sandy soil we have in the area with a couple of clones. Thank god I have a White Widow, Caramel Kush and Wizz Fizz Bonsai Mothers still cranking and ready to be trimmed!

 

So yea, you all know me, panic before think hahahah

 

Thanks I will report back on progress and maybe get a new Diary going.

Edited March 20, 2016 by qwobbler

[Qwobbler]

 

Hey Q 

no you don't have to worry about PH in organics & yes don't use PH up down 

But you need to have life in that soil for that to work otherwise it's almost like a coco mix , ok it's a big almost 

 

when using peat you must have some Liming going on to begin with then the bene's take over , this is

why soil guy's talk about cooking there mix really it's getting the life in to gear & feeding on amendments

this makes those amendments available to the plant asap

 

over watering is easy to do as is under watering , to keep the life in the pot you can't let it dry out , keeping a mulch on top will help 

this is against what i used to do , i always would let the top dry for the purpose of gnats which worked well but there are so many negatives

in doing that , 1 you loose root space - roots won't grow in dry soil & the main root space your loosing is feeder root space ,

where in the wild is most of the food , on the surface ,leaves , poo , the ground is never visible in the forest , it's always covered

because bene's can't live  & work in dry conditions

 

also it's easier to build & keep life in larger pots , I've used 7gal geo's but have been told the minimum size should be 10gal & bigger

 

seedlings should be kept in there pot until roots have filled the container just enough to hold the soil together while you transplant

don't want spinning roots at the bottom of the pot transplant B4 then

 

i would be buying compost or castings rather than more searles , Hashy makes good points , def more organic matter in sandy soils

plus i would rather have the inoculation that compost or castings will give you rather than a pretty much dead bag from the shop ,

cool amendments but no life  

 

can't exactly find what i was looking for but found what it was you add when making a coco & soil mix Sul-Po-Mag don't know amounts

or the info i have read , I'll keep looking

 

 

 

 

Hey Itchy, couple of questions....

 

When we say "Mulch" what type of mulch? Because yes, I experience the tops pf the pots drying out way too fast.

 

Im a bit confused with the terms: Soil, Mulch, Compost, Humus etc.... 

 

When you say...

"i would be buying compost or castings rather than more searles , Hashy makes good points , def more organic matter in sandy soils

plus i would rather have the inoculation that compost or castings will give you rather than a pretty much dead bag from the shop ,

cool amendments but no life ".......

 What do you mean by compost? Like the Searles 5 in 1 (Yellow and Red bag) is compost isnt it? Well on the bag it says "Organic 5 in 1 Compost"...... I think im starting to understand that bagged compost isnt the same as fresh? is my intellect coming back to me?   

 

Castings are unfortuanatly hard to come buy around here and my worms arnt doing there thing real well this year, lazy buggers  

 

And do you know about Gogo Juice? Someone told me a while back that it makes the coco work too..... Is it something like that you are thinking of?

 

Cheers, your always a massive help!

[Jagged]

Hey Qwobbler

 

I read this last night and wrote out some info for you but when i finished it looked very wanky to myself so i ditched it

 

In essence i told you to check out rebreathing, if u have questions fire away.

[itchybromusic]

Not the best at typing " def more organic mater " Needed " in sandy soils 

 

Mulch could be things like straw . hay , leaves you rake up , coco , grow stones

anything that protects the soil surface from drying wind , hot sun & rain 

 

sounds strange about the rain but it's important , lots of water flushed quickly though a pot 

will most likely flush out bene's , this is not good ,

 

you just want to keep the soil moist to a lour roots to utilize the whole pot & all available food ,

bigger the roots , bigger the fruits

 

you can use lots of things as soil protection / mulch but why not feed the bene's as well as protect the soil

by using straw , hay or both , if you don't already know , hay is food , straw is bedding

 

Hay , lets say Lucerne = Alfalfa , is harvested B4 the plant producers seed so all nutrients are trapped

in the leaves so it can be used as food for animals

 

straw however has produced it's seed & used up all nutrients in the leaves to do so , there's zero benefit

for animals to eat so becomes bedding

 

where it's good for us is Lucerne is N for your plant via food for bene's basically , bene's eat & excrete for the plant to feed

 

straw although has no nutes but is full of lignin like roots of plants & fungus love it , that's important cos fungus takes the longest

to get going , in soil & even in compost teas , so we want to have as much food for fungus cos there the guys that bring your

plant home , canna starts out bacteria dominate , seeds , seedlings , vegging & slowly moves fungal dominate though flowering

 

fresh compost is def better , most if not all bagged soils & composts are treated to kill any bad guys , problem is they kill the good

guys as well , so you end up starting pretty sterile , no life , which is one of the first things a plant looks for , soil life ,

 

like i said B4 , Biodynamic , every time i look at biodynamic stuff they all seemed based in Qld , some of the biodynamic guys

teach & make compost in lessons all the time & often sell the finished compost because they have plenty , they make a dam good

compost if you can find some , just need to keep in mind , not all compost is created equal & hard to work out who's who in the zoo ,

biodynamic work to a very well used method , consistent , which you can't say about some other producers

 

castings are hard to find here as well , & making your own takes a while , just with the worm farm , i was told to be carful

of moister in the farm , don't be to wet , but talking to a castings manufacturer in the US , he tells me the No1 killer of

worm farms is to dry , so I've stopped being concerned with what moister go's in , be a little carful on rainy days not add any

extra but other than that i blend the food scraps with a bit of water , they seem to get though it quicker that way

 

from memory Gogo juice is pretty much a bacteria dominate compost tea in a bottle , lots of bene's feeding on seaweed & fish , I've used it

& works fine but you need more than just that , which is more about soil life diversity than bene amounts   

 

cheers mate

hope I'm answering your Q's Q 

itchy  

[Qwobbler]

 

yes answering my Q's indeed cheers....

 

Well silly question...

 

I do not have access to fresh compost. just started a bin but that will take a while.

 

Can I essentially go and buy bagged stuff and amend in with stuff to have an instant active compost that i obviously need...? Buy stuff i mean (i dont know what stuff )

 

Or is it only possible to at least wait a few weeks to cook something up in a bin? 

 

Something like Subcools mix i guess Is what I need yeah? but the ingredients are sooo hard to get! 

 

hmmmmmmmm.

 

Cheers

[forgetiwashere]

I have had some success buying the bagged compost and adding a tea to it to give it life.

 

The tea I made used worm castings and some compost from the forest floor. Basically I drove to the bush scraped up some of the dead leaves and stuff off the forest floor and some of the fine compost looking layer of soil from under the leaves and used that in a tea with some castings.

 

Its not ideal. But did the trick

[itchybromusic]

Bagged compost inoculated with a tea will work Q as FIWH says

 

finding some healthy soil /composted leaf mould under healthy tree / plants , where the soil is moist & covered with leaves to make a tea

the only issue with that & any home bubbled tea is , unless you have a microscope & can identify all the bene's you don't know

really what your brewing , mos likely if you picked some nice healthy leaf mould under a healthy looking tree you'll be fine

but without a scope you just don't know, in saying all that i know FIWH has brewed teas & has used them as i have with no scope 

the other option you have for teas is to buy them , which flys in the face of what No Cost compost teas are all about but 

at least you know what your getting , I've used these with success & they have both , Bacteria dominate teas & fungal

dominate teas , Bacteria teas in veg , fungal in flower & not badly priced , you will need to buy food to add , molasses ect

http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/products/microbe-culturing/dominate-f

http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/products/microbe-culturing/dominate-b

http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/factsheets/organic-microbe-brewing.pdf

these guys have a Liquid Microbe Food to go with there teas but is not part of there organic brewing

 

all compost takes time to compost , no way round it 

 

forget subcool mix , as you say hard to fine everything he uses 

 

was it you that said you used Aloe vera , was that from a bottle or a blade from a plant 

cos from the raw plant you have a short time to use otherwise it starts tuning to alcohol

in around 20min from being removed from a plant , just something to keep in mind

there are a few products you can buy to avoid this , even powdered raw aloe which i

use , bloody expensive though otherwise don't mess about when using direct off the aloe plant  

Edited March 20, 2016 by itchybromusic