Basic(ish) inorganic nutrient chemistry

[itchybromusic]

there is so much i could say but fuck it would take hours to write out a reply to that , so i'll just say good luck with your growing &

if you get a chance read these 2 books  

the first , Teaming With Microbes by Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis

the second , One Straw Revolution by Masanobu Fukuoka

 

& also watch any Soil Food Web vid by Dr Elaine Ingham , like this one https://youtu.be/x2H60ritjag

would say get a handle on the soil food web then i'd like to hear what you think 

 

Yes Mother nature has been calling the shots for many years even as we make it harder for her 

& plants have evolved over thousands of years to grow them selves without out the need of you , me or Monsanto 

 

also i wouldn't want any plant forced grown , food or choof , just want to allow any plant to get to it's

genetic potential naturally , quality over quantity anyday & twice on sundays  

 

Massive pumpkin comp growers were all synthetic up to about 5-10 years ago now the top 20 or so spots in 

any comp in the US is fill by organic growers , these guys are getting pumpkins to put on around 40lbs a day 

talking about force grown , & everything is grow with organics , keep in mind there not growing to eat & genetics

would play a massive part but they want to win so they go with what works best , organics 

 

Anyways audionut i mean no disrespect to you & wish you well in your growing endeavours

[itchybromusic]

If you'd like check this article out , Do You Know Dirt About Soil 

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22885028/do-you-know-dirt-about-soil-heres-three

[Audionut]

I'm really confused as to what exactly I have described incorrectly.  You don't have to spend hours replying to the entire post, start with tidbits.

 

To be perfectly honest, I'm pretty confident that you have misunderstood a significant portion of my post(s).

 

The textbooks describe a mineral deficiency as being one where the mineral element needed to support the life cycle of the plant, is at 90% of the optimal concentration.  I briefed over this with this statement.

 

 

But of course, when growing weed we generally don't just want a healthy plant without signs of distress, we want those fuckers growing at the fastest rate possible.  Almost always Nitrogen is the limiting nutrient on growth rate.  So we can have some concentration of nitrogen that does not meet the demands required by the plant for adequate growth without distress, some concentration that supplies adequate levels required for healthy growth, some concentration that increases growth rate of the plant, and some (even higher) concentration that begins to have negative affects on the plant.  I believe it's important to understand these concepts, because if you have a healthy plant and you're looking to increase the growth rate, then an oversupply of nitrogen probably isn't the best way to go about it.  If the plant is healthy, then you're already above the concentration required for adequate growth, and you should probably be looking at only small increases in nitrogen concentration to ensure you don't reach the point of toxicity.

 

If you have some plant that contains 91% of the required Nitrogen concentration for growth, and thus displays no nutrient deficiency symptoms, and thus appears in perfect health, would you consider an increase of Nitrogen to a concentration of 100% of the that required for maximum yield, to be force growing the plant?

 

But what about things like light!  Plants use (the energy from) light to power the transformation of CO₂ and H₂O to sugar and oxygen. 

 

6CO₂ + 6H₂O > C₆H₁₂O₆ + 6O₂

 

The sugar (C₆H₁₂O₆) is used for further plant functions, with the oxygen (O₂) being a welcomed by-product for us bipeds (oh and of course plant respiration).  The funny thing about light, is that it doesn't follow the same classical deficiency principles that are applied to mineral elements.  Put a plant on a window sill that receives some 20% of the light it would otherwise obtain if placed in full sunlight, and the plant will grow healthy without deficiency symptoms.  Light is really cool because it single handily controls the requirements of all other nutrients.  A plant grown on a window sill, and a plant grown in full sunlight, both without any deficiencies in essential elements required for growth (but both plants having different requirements for these essential elements), would both be considered to be healthy plants.  But clearly, one plant would have significantly increased mass compared to the other.  Would you consider the plant that has increased mass as being forced grown?

 

I'm all for growing things with only organic sources of nutrients, heck I'm pretty sure I've made a point of that on more then one occasion already.  My intent isn't to tell people how they should grow, or what they should do, my intent is simply to the increased knowledge of the community.

 

Cheers.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Audionut

[itchybromusic]

I get where ya coming from , but i would say to you plant growth & health is determined by the life in the soil in a symbiotic relationship with the plant  

 

only the plant will know what it wants & when , they use the soil microlife to feed & protect itself & it's external gut , it's root system , plants are living beings ,

would you want anybody telling you what to eat & when , of cause not & neither do plants ,

 

if you checked out that Dr Ingham vid she talks about the amount of nutrients in most soil around the world & the fact that there is a abundance of nutrients

because a major part of the nutrient spectrum in soil is microorganisms , there excretions & there position in the soil food web ,

 

plants have evolved over time to know all about the web & how to use it , because they have no other choice , no 30m tall old growth forest tree is upping it's

root system in the middle of the night to waddle down to bunnings for a bottle of power feed , also there's no one in an old growth forest with his retractable

hose & a bag of inorganic ferts , yet the forest is healthy as all get out ,

 

old growth forests become unhealthy when things are ripped out , soil microlife become exposed , the one thing you never see in an old growth forest , Soil !  

So i say do away with man made inorganic ferts & feed the soil not the plant , mother nature , incredibly complex , unbelievably simple

[Audionut]

Ok, thanks for sharing your opinion.  But since it's clearly off-topic.................

 

 

edit:  You even created an on-topic thread here.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Audionut

[forgetiwashere]

Itchy is one of those organic soil snobs hahahah (no offence itchy you know i love ya).  he means well and his info is great and well worth looking into even if its not something you think you might be interested in right away. he really is just trying to help.

 

i do agree this isnt the right thread for his info though. this is a thread about synthetic nutes. lets not turn it into yet another Organic vs synthetic battle thread. i know that was not anyones intention but i have seen it escalate to that in many threads on many forums.

 

smoke a bowl and lets all just get along.

[itchybromusic]

Fare enough 

don't see it as off topic , but obviously that's just me 

 

consider what you put in the ground , Pros " & " Cons 

healthy you healthy me healthy world 

 

Happy growing 

[FullCircle]

Very interesting read, thanks for posting

[Naycha]

How are you or do you plan on defining and measuring the optimal concentration of individual elements required to support the life cycle of each individual phenotype of Cannabis you are or plan on growing?

 

Would there be a significant difference between a plant grown at the 90th percentile compared to one grown at the hypothetical (because nothing is perfect) 100th percentile and would this difference be commercially viable to attempt to attain?

 

It would be interesting to see your approach put into practice. At the moment it seems like you have loaded yourself up with a lot of information and now need to sort out what is and is not practical or achievable.

[forgetiwashere]

Ph balance is the main consideration I think you need to consider. Its one thing to balance the ph of the mix at the start but controlling the drift as the cation exchange occurs will be a whole other matter.