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Sex reversal experiment - Silver Thiosulphate


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As far as genetic drift , I don't think that can apply to clones ,,they're all the same ,,.I never saw it and don't believe it happens with clones.

 

Anyone that thinks there is a genetic drift to clones ,,,I'd like them to prove it,,,and that would be pretty hard to do.

 

genetic drift takes place over generations at the level of a whole population of organisms - nothing to do with cloning AFAIK.

 

Strictly speaking "genetic differences" == "changes in the sequence of DNA" and that can't happen from taking a cutting - like I said above, clones can have epigenetic differences from the mother - not genetic differences - but those epigenetic differences certainly can lead to different phenotype expression in terms of terpenes and growth patterns. Before epigenetics was discovered, there was deep disagreement biologists (google "Lamarckian genetics") about whether a mother giraffe stretching for the topmost leaves will produce baby giraffes with longer necks....it might happen but not because of genetic sequence changes..

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I imagine that some genetic mutation may form in clone caused by environmental influences

 

Growth patterns will change but that has nothing to do with genetics imo .... Not a scientist but

 

Believe it has more do with where the cuts are taken

 

Although it's not impossible I think the genetic drift people think their strains are showing is just some other variable that's affecting the plant

 

All just theory

 

Cheers :) Brim

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So this epigenitic change in pheno types that you spoke of must be a rare thing .and I'd hazard a guess that you could clone many strains over and over and you may never see it happen.?

 

 

It happens for sure. I've got stored bud from two separate harvests from the same clone using the same nutes/tent/hempy/lights/dry/cure etc and they definitely differ in vapour taste (the second one had a lot more lavender than the first and is more potent by a country mile). Same plant and as best I can control, same treatment but you might be forgiven for thinking they were separate strains in a double blind test.

 

That's epigenetics for you - slightly but noticeably different phenotypes; same genetics. Before it was understood, epigenetics really confused the crap out of evolutionary biologists when the so called "central dogma" (sequence->RNA->protein) was thought to be the basis for everything genetic.

 

The plant's genetic sequence can't have changed between reveging and flowering but the phenotype can still be altered by environmental differences and even reveging will probably change the epigenetics....

Edited by doctor_nelson
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I imagine that some genetic mutation may form in clone caused by environmental influences

 

If you care, read all you can stand on somatic vs germline mutation.

 

Long story short: a single somatic mutation probably caused by a combination of my sequence and environment changed a cell in my prostate into to a rapidly growing cancer that I had removed 13 years ago - cancers are a good example of the effects of somatic mutation and the mutation itself would not be heritable although the tendency to undergo may have been transmitted to my sons.

 

Germline mutation is a whole other issue and it changes the germline (heritable) sequence but for a single mutation event to lead to changes in the sequence of DNA in every one of an organism's nucleated cells, it has to have happened in the gametes before they fused to form that individual organism's zygote - not the organism itself... 

 

Germline mutations and recombination are the drivers producing germline variations in "fitness" among offspring - that is what drives evolutionary selection.

 

Other than in gametes, a somatic mutation in the sequence of any of the individual cells in an organism cannot be transmitted to offspring.

Edited by doctor_nelson
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no,  not different smell or potency, slightly different appearance characteristics of the finished plant. I think its positioning on the table, seen this over a few decades of cloning. I know what you mean about different seasons though, get much better buds when its not too hot. I guess there are so many variables to every grow.  As for genetic drift I was just meaning the mothers over time.

I agree in theory there should be no difference, though using sog I do find a lot of variables, maybe position under light , maybe air flow, maybe genetic drift. Even Claude from Serious seeds thinks genetic drift may exist.  Just dont find many exactly the same in the harvest, close but not exactly. I have always wondered why though ![/quote

Are you saying you get different smell and potency from clones within the same setup and same grow ?

After 13,years of cloning ,,and recloning mothers ..the only difference I saw was from differing flower times or from summer to winter grows .

only slight change due to environment

As far as genetic drift , I don't think that can apply to clones ,,they're all the same ,,.I never saw it and don't believe it happens with clones.

Anyone that thinks there is a genetic drift to clones ,,,I'd like them to prove it,,,and that would be pretty hard to do.
Edited by hermananian
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I imagine that some genetic mutation may form in clone caused by environmental influences

 

Growth patterns will change but that has nothing to do with genetics imo .... Not a scientist but

 

Believe it has more do with where the cuts are taken

 

Although it's not impossible I think the genetic drift people think their strains are showing is just some other variable that's affecting the plant

 

All just theory

 

Cheers :) Brim

Where the cuts are taken !! I was told the same thing years ago and always thought that was what I was seeing. Though maybe its epigenetics ? 

Edited by hermananian
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no,  not different smell or potency, slightly different appearance characteristics of the finished plant. I think its positioning on the table, seen this over a few decades of cloning. I know what you mean about different seasons though, get much better buds when its not too hot. I guess there are so many variables to every grow.  As for genetic drift I was just meaning the mothers over time.

 

There's no change in a mother plant's sequence over her entire lifetime so calling it genetic drift is technically not right.

OTOH there are lots of changes with age and environment to the epigenetic marks and those are likely to be present in freshly cut clones - so a clone taken early could have phenotypic variation compared to a later one for any given long lived mother.

But it's not genetic (sequence) change over time - epigenetics is probably the explanation...

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There's no change in a mother plant's sequence over her entire lifetime so calling it genetic drift is technically not right.

OTOH there are lots of changes with age and environment to the epigenetic marks and those are likely to be present in freshly cut clones - so a clone taken early could have phenotypic variation compared to a later one for any given long lived mother.

But it's not genetic (sequence) change over time - epigenetics is probably the explanation..

Thanks for the info, always wondered. 

Edited by hermananian
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