Charas Problems

[amlez]

Indoor/Outdoor:  Indoor/Outdoor
Growing Medium: 1pt Coco 1pt Perlite 1pt Compost/CowShite (with a few handfulls of Dynamic Lifter mixed)
Growing Style:
Watering/Feeding Frequency: Every 3 to 4 days
Nutrient Strength (PPM/EC): Feeding Seaweed Extract/GoGo Juice/Plant Starter (all between 1/3 to 1/2 recommended)
PH Levels: soil - 6.8
Temperature/Humidity Levels: Tropical Outdoors 20c to 33c  -  50% to 90%
Air Flow/Fans etc.: Breeze/Wind
Lighting Type (CFL/HPS/MH etc.):  130w CFL 6hrs (1am to 7am) - then natural sunshine
Total Wattage:
Growth Stage: Veg
Plants Age: 50 & 30 odd days
Cannabis Strain: Charas (indica dom)

 

Hopefully someone can help me out with my 2 girls?

 

The older is now 56 days (kick started after being fried under an overzealously low light as seedling) - little sister @ 36 days has had a very normal upbringing - albeit slow as seedling.  I was pretty happy with the progress of both until a few days ago.

 

1/. Here she is just after being topped at 50days :-    

 

I had fed 2ml/ltr GoGo Juice the previous day, and watered (straight water) 2 days later with a foliar spray of Seaweed Extract @ 0.5ml/ltr, and another same strength foliar spray the next day. While feeding the following day (55days - 2ml/ltr Seaweed & 2ml/ltr Plant Starter) I noticed a minor White Fly/Mite?? infestion on lower leaves so gave it a hit up with Pyrethrum.

 

A few days after topping, the 2 new top branches appeared to be coming along OK, and the lower branches were extending horizontally nicley.

 

All of a sudden however, 2 new top branches appear to be 'shrivelling/odd shaped', lower horizontal branches suffering, and sun leaves browning off??

 

     

 

 

2/. Little sister (exactly the same watering regime and topped a few days later - but no sign of bug infestation) is not so bad, but top leafs appear to be 'curling'? So, top leafs slightly 'disfigured' but no sign of browning??

 

Just prior to topping - 3 days ago  :-   

 

Today - note 'curling/disfigured' top leafs:-    

 

Can anyone please give some advise as to what's happening here, and remedial action needed??

Edited September 10, 2014 by amlez

[amlez]

No-one??

[louise]

Diagnosis - Newb grower chucking too much shit at his plants.

 

Prognosis - Good, so long as the grower can leave the plants alone until they actually need treatment or feeding.

 

 

Problem 1. Spray damaged leaves.

 

Immediate treatment - Put plant in shade, rinse off leaves with plain water, leave until leaves are dry, return to sunshine.

 

Follow up advice - Don't spray shit on the leaves.

 

 

Problem 2. Improper additives.

 

Immediate treatment - gently water each pot with as much water as the pot's volume... eg 1 litre pot = 1 litre of water.

 

Follow up advice - when plants require moisture use plain water.

 

Use gogo and seaweed once a fortnight.

 

Use plant starter only when transplanting.

 

 

 

Ok, next....

[MediKat]

I wouldn't be spraying little plants like that. That's most likely your problem.

[amlez]

Thanks Louise for input - in the short time I've been coming here I've found your posts particularly insightful, and in fact I’ve become somewhat of a 'disciple' of yours.

 

This :-

Watering/Feeding Frequency: Every 3 to 4 days
Nutrient Strength (PPM/EC): Feeding Seaweed Extract/GoGo Juice/Plant Starter (all between 1/3 to 1/2 recommended)

may have been somewhat misleading.

 

I’m not watering/feeding all 3 components together, and on each feed/water. My original plan was to stick with the seaweed extract throughout veg stage, hoping the cowshit, compost and dynamic lifter in the medium would suffice till flowering time.

I had been feeding the Seaweed Extract 4ltr alternating between 1.5ml/ltr , 2ml/ltr, and straight water (given the recommended dosage of this stuff is around 3.5ml/ltr and my research suggest that it’s nearly impossible to OD the weed on seaweed extract, I would have thought this feeding regime certainly not ‘over the top’?).

As I posted elsewhere, my growth seemed to be VERY slow, and on discovering your log https://cannabis.community.forums.ozstoners.com/topic/66123-lous-log/page-3 a few weeks ago, in what seemed to be quite similar grow circumstances to mine, and seeing the impressive progress in the early seedling stage, I thought I’d mimic your ‘regime’. Off I went to get some GoGo & Plant Starter to see if it would give them a kick along. Previous advise I had got said no need to start fertilising till after 3 weeks from germ, and that was what I was doing, but noted in your log that you commenced your seedlings on the Plant Starter & Canna at 4days, and followed up with the same at day 6.

Here is my log from the time I repotted :-

25/8 (40days)  Repotted – 1tspn Epsom Salts watered in with 4ltrs Seaweed @ 1.5ml/ltr

27/8 (42Days) 4ltrs Seaweed @ 2ml/ltr

31/8 (46Days) 4ltrs water

3/9 (49Days) 4ltrs  GoGo Juice @ 2ml/ltr

4/9 (50Days) Topped

6/9 (52Days) 4ltrs water – 0.5ml/ltr Seaweed Foliar Spray

7/9 (53Days) 0.5ml/ltr Seaweed Foliar Spray

8/9 (54Days) 0.5ml/ltr Seaweed Foliar Spray

9/9 (55Days) 4ltrs Seaweed @ 2ml/ltr – 1ltr Plant Starter @2ml/ltr

9/9 Pyretherum Spray – whitefly?? lower leaves

9/9 New growth signs of shrivelling/deformed

I thought maybe I went overboard with the dosage of Plant Starter (2ml/ltr), but noted you gave 4 & 6 day seedlings 'a touch of Plant Starter', and mine is a reasonably established plant at 50 odd days, and the recommended dosage on the bottle for seedlings is 4ml/ltr ???

When you say ‘don’t spray shit on leaves’ – is this in respect to Pyrethrum or Seaweed Extract? I’ve seen elsewhere where regular foliar misting with weak solution of seaweed is highly recommended?

In summary, I guess I’m a little confused. I wouldn’t have thought my feeding regime was over the top compared with many logs I read on here where people REALLY ARE throwing shit at their plants (all the expensive, I’d assume ‘heavy duty’ shit) – I’m just using moderate dosages of Seaweed extract which I was led to believe is nearly impossible to overdose/burn.

Also, the younger plant, with an identical feeding regime (& foliar misting) is doing OK, other than minor ‘crinkling’ of leaves at the edges?

I look forward to continuing to follow your great work, remain a 'disciple', and hope to learn more (through trial, error, and experience I guess).

 

Cheers!!

[Naycha]

Pyrethrum can cause severe damage to Cannabis leaves. Compared to some other plants I've seen sprayed with pyrethrum yours don't look bad at all, just thought I'd mention it as something to be wary of.

 

Naycha

[amlez]

Cheers Naycha - I'll steer clear of the Pyrethrum in future (I see Eco Oil has a lot of fans here so I'll give that a crack next time I have the need).

 

Makes sense tho - 2 plants being maintained identically except for the Pyrethrum hit up, & it's the one that went all sad .......

[louise]

Ok, I was a bit terse... I'll try and explain where I think you are going astray...

 

My original plan was to stick with the seaweed extract throughout veg stage, hoping the cowshit, compost and dynamic lifter in the medium would suffice till flowering time.

To my thinking that was a good plan.

 

I had been feeding the Seaweed Extract 4ltr alternating between 1.5ml/ltr , 2ml/ltr, and straight water (given the recommended dosage of this stuff is around 3.5ml/ltr and my research suggest that it’s nearly impossible to OD the weed on seaweed extract, I would have thought this feeding regime certainly not ‘over the top’?).

I've got a bottle of Seasol Brand seaweed extract and the dose rate for vegetables and annuals is 3ml/L, applied once a fortnight... not every few days and spraying on the leaves as well. It wont burn your plants the way a strong feed of fish emulsion will but too frequent use will add to the salt load around your roots.

 

As I posted elsewhere, my growth seemed to be VERY slow,and on discovering your log https://cannabis.community.forums.ozstoners.com/topic/66123-lous-log/page-3 a few weeks ago, in what seemed to be quite similar grow circumstances to mine, and seeing the impressive progress in the early seedling stage, I thought I’d mimic your ‘regime’. Off I went to get some GoGo & Plant Starter to see if it would give them a kick along.

That was probably a mistake... I think the difference between our seedlings was more to do with germination conditions, access to nutrients and lighting rather than gogo or plant starter. Your seedlings were getting limited light hours and were struggling for nitrogen (evidenced by the early yellowing and early loss of fan leaves). Mine got 24 hr light, steady warm temps and the appropriate amount of nitrogen in a hydroponic feed.

 

Previous advise I had got said no need to start fertilising till after 3 weeks from germ, and that was what I was doing, but noted in your log that you commenced your seedlings on the Plant Starter & Canna at 4days, and followed up with the same at day 6.

If you have fertiliser mixed in your medium (eg cow manure and/or dynamic lifter) you don't need to feed the seedlings for a few weeks... but if you don't have fertiliser in the medium you obviously need to feed your plants or they yellow and grow slowly. That's why you have read conflicting information about seedlings.

 

I thought maybe I went overboard with the dosage of Plant Starter (2ml/ltr), but noted you gave 4 & 6 day seedlings 'a touch of Plant Starter', and mine is a reasonably established plant at 50 odd days, and the recommended dosage on the bottle for seedlings is 4ml/ltr ???

Your assumption here was bit misguided, I only use 0.25ml/L on seedlings and at the first transplant. I might go up as high as 1ml/L for the last pot up before flowering. It's rooting hormone, so not very useful unless you have fresh medium that you want to colonise with roots quickly... used to regularly you risk root binding.

 

When you say ‘don’t spray shit on leaves’ – is this in respect to Pyrethrum or Seaweed Extract? I’ve seen elsewhere where regular foliar misting with weak solution of seaweed is highly recommended?

Both, you have some spray burn from the pyrethrin... which isn't going to get better, but it's also likely that the sprays of seaweed extract have left a film of salt on your leaves as well. Which is why I suggested the rinse off with plain water. Foliar spraying can have benefits, but I feel that for inexperienced growers it is more likely to be detrimental to the plants.

 

In summary, I guess I’m a little confused. I wouldn’t have thought my feeding regime was over the top compared with many logs I read on here where people REALLY ARE throwing shit at their plants (all the expensive, I’d assume ‘heavy duty’ shit) – I’m just using moderate dosages of Seaweed extract which I was led to believe is nearly impossible to overdose/burn.

I'm not surprised you are confused, some of the advice you read is based on soil growing (ie growing with a medium that is preloaded with nutrients) and some is for hydroponics.

 

Also, the younger plant, with an identical feeding regime (& foliar misting) is doing OK, other than minor ‘crinkling’ of leaves at the edges?

The worst of the damage on the first plant is down to the pyrethrin. The twisting, or crinkling as you call it, is on both plants. It maybe nothing and it might be the first signs of over salting in the medium. That's why I suggested you run some plain water through the pots.

 

As a last point, if you read something in a log and think it might apply to your grow... ask the grower. Especially if it is my log, I welcome questions and I don't bite... well, not too often.

Edited September 12, 2014 by louise

[amlez]

Cheers Louise - thanks for taking the time to respond. Your advise all makes sense when I work thru it.

 

I guess I'm being a little frustrated with the slow progress of my seedlings compared to other grows I see - guess I need to be more patient, particularly as I insist on trying to keep it as a simple as I can without extravagant hydro/indoor/nutes stuff.

 

 

If you have fertiliser mixed in your medium (eg cow manure and/or dynamic lifter) you don't need to feed the seedlings for a few weeks... but if you don't have fertiliser in the medium you obviously need to feed your plants or they yellow and grow slowly.

I've got another batch of seedlings coming through (currently between 10 & 12 days) that while in the same medium (ie manure/compost/DL ammended) and are healthy enough, are also slow, and bottom leaves yellow off. Any advise you can give to get these a boost of nitrogen, or should I just remain patient & let them work it out?

[Sir PsychoHashy]

My approach to soil growing is bordering on hydroponics, so I can't really advise you on soil feeding or nitrogen boosting.  But I can offer some advice. 

 

You used the word patient twice in your last post, that is a key word, try and relax and let nature take it's course.  Aside from different strains performing differently, you can't compare your soil based plants under fluros and late winter sun to plants in hydroponics under high wattage HPS or MH lights, as that is a minutely controlled environment attempting to provide maximum performance. 

 

Chances are that you also provided too much love in their early days as well with overwatering, possibly in pots that were too big, bogging them down.  Seedlings start off slow, and need to build a root system and some solar panels before they get going, the 1st 2-3 weeks can seem very slow.  Where they are at now, if you flush the soil out a bit and follow Lou's very good advice, you will find that they will kick into a higher gear very quickly.  You've got an entire outdoor season ahead, so relax and enjoy your plants, they will be fine.

 

Up to a point, bottom leaves yellowing and dying off as they become unnecessary is normal.  Might be a good idea to post a grow diary, we like looking at pics, and you will get plenty of feedback if people see problems.  Good luck.