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Dwc Bubbler Problems

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#11
indooraussie

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hey lucian checkout this link.mate bubblers dont seem to be the prob.
youll might be able to diagnose especially check sulphur.mine run at 1.2 ec without probs so convert that mate to ppm.as ferengi said start a bit lower and work back up.this chart will help as the leaves tell what prob is everytime.so hope this helps.hang in there mate.also when you added h202 i hope you added half dose to start.

http://www.overgrow.com/growfaq/951
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#12
Roadblock

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Hi

I have no experience with bubblers , but have lots growing mull .

I dont think you have a problem with nute strengh , 400 ppm is very very low and shouldnt burn them at all , 1400 is more like normal strengh .

You say you had 24 hr cycle for 3 weeks , was this under cloning fluros or the 600 ?
If it was the 600 then that would have stressed the crap out of it quite a bit , they need sleep just like you do , I dont like 24 hr lights even when cloning , its not natural and the plant has no rebuild period .
I have always cloned under a 18 hrs and have roots showing through 75ml cubes in 7 to 12 days , and 100% strike rate .

I would have the bottom of the pot just above the water not in it and run a dripper through the top .

It really sounds like this plant has been stressed and has not developed a good root system and if thats the case if your light is to close it is placing to much demand on the plant .
Purple streaking or color on the stems is a good sign of stress .

Is this plant turgid , meaning is it leaf sets standing up or are they hanging down or straight out .
Watch closely when the lights come on they should stand right up, if they dont stand up dont feed and let the roots dry out some and watch the leaf sets standup as the roots dry out , once they are standing up give them a feed , if they go back down again after a feed thats a sure sign of root problems or not enough of them .

To get a sick plant back on top again , I would back of on all demand put on it untill its of and running , get another light , I have 100watt metal halide just for this .
Back of on your feeds , meaning dont feed untill the leaves a very turgid (pointing 45% upwards ) I regulate my feeding based on how turgid the plant is , when its right the leaf sets are pointing near vertical during all light time , let the plant tell you when its feed time not the clock .
When balancing feeding like this make sure you give them a good deal of flow when you do feed so you dont get salt buildup .

If you have no disease I will bet its too much demand to early on a plant that doesnt have the root system to keep up with the light demand .
Back of the demand and let nature take its course , and watch your water cycles while the light demand is low , probably once a day , sometimes once every 2 days , let the plants leaf set tell you when to water .
When the plant rejuvinates it will just take of , give it the 600 then and up your feed cycles and it will power .

Rod
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#13
F420

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Rod,

The plant doesnt need a rest period, but the rest of the posts sounds spot on to me.

heres why-

Does marijuana require a dark period during the vegetative growth stage? I recently read a grow book that advocated an 18-6 light cycle during the early growth stages.

PSD 420,
Internet


One way in which plants are categorized is by the way they gather and handle carbon dioxide. Cannabis is a C3 plant. It uses the CO2 it gathers during the light period, when it is photosynthesizing. Plants designated C4 also gather CO2 during the dark period for use during the light period. Many C3 plants, including cannabis, do not need a rest period. They continue to photosynthesize as long as they are receiving light.
http://www.cannabisc...icles/3127.html



at least worth a try, and hopefully these plants will come good.

:D
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#14
Roadblock

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Yes mate , Ive heard of this many times and I dont not believe the theory of 24 hr lighting, especially in the cloning , as I dont really know for sure Im not going to risk stuffing up a grow thats powering under 18hrs , I dont follow the practice mainly because its totally unatural for a 24 hr light cycle and many years ago I took measurements just before lights out and again at lights on and the plants had grown , so that kind of told me that they must be doing some rebuilding during the night cycle .

I would never run a HID lighting system 24/7 , I dont know of anything living in natures world that dont require rest , some insects but they die in a few days :D

I really try and get them turgid ( 45% or better upward leaf set ) which is really a state of perfect hydration , at this point the plant is transpiring and when its transpiring it is metabalizing nutrient , when you slow the plant for any reason and water it , it is drowning and all sorts of problems can manifest and compound the problem , a weak nutrient can even be toxic when the plant is sitting dorment like a stunned mullet under HID lighting , and its times like this beginners generally up the demand , more light and more water , these are the worst things you can do for a sick or stressed plant .
Back of the demand (lights) cut back the water cycles and only water when plants need it , once the plant is of and running you can up the demand and then the plant will take lots of waterings without missing a beat .
Might sound strange seeing as we are using hydroponics but marijuana dont like wet feet .

Rod

Edited by Roadblock, 26 May 2004 - 08:04 PM.

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#15
Lucian

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Ok well it was under 600 w HPS 24/7 , there has really only been 1 day that the leaves have pointed up , today is not one of those days , i have set up a watering ring it was at 15 mins per hour .but i might change to 15 per 6 hrs , the root system is looking a slight yellow/brown , but i have been advised not to uses h202 till it gets older

I am going to give it some Super thrive and see what happens , i still havent changed the n00ts as they are only 3 days old , PH today is 5.7 , i got some strips for the time being as i didnt like the accuracy of the dropper pH test .


i mgiht even change to water for a while and see what happens , im sure im getting enough air to the tank , the bottom of the net pot is just above the water line .

i turned the water heater off to see what happens , its at 17 C atm , so im gunna turn it back on again as nothing happened .

Thanks every one for taking an interest in my project , your input is much appreciated

Edit : oh i would love a 100 watt halide , put have no idea where to get one , also was thinking of 2 x 48 watt compact fluros , theyre 24 .00 ea at bunnings for the 5000k Natural ones that fit in a normal globe holder

Edited by Lucian, 26 May 2004 - 09:39 PM.

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#16
Roadblock

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"Ok well it was under 600 w HPS 24/7 , there has really only been 1 day that the leaves have pointed up , today is not one of those days , i have set up a watering ring it was at 15 mins per hour .but i might change to 15 per 6 hrs , the root system is looking a slight yellow/brown , but i have been advised not to uses h202 till it gets older"

Mate I will bet this is your problem , to much light , too much water = stress = slowed root developement = slow growth !

If you carnt get another light for a little while get the 600 right away from the plant , off to side or tilt it awy from the plant and water manually for a day or 2 , I would turn the water timers of and check the plant every hour and only water when the plant is turgid ,this may be only once in 2 days depending on your medium and if your area is not to hot , the perfect time is an hour before the plant starts to wilt , once you work out how long between water cycles this particular plant is happy with set your timers to that untill the plant takes off .

Its old enough for h202 , just dont go overboard !

Good luck
Rod

Edited by Roadblock, 27 May 2004 - 07:27 AM.

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#17
Lucian

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i have dropped the water level in the bucket to 3-4 inches below the pot , i have also taken away the feeding ring , im gunna leave it for 2-3 days with no watering to see if i can get some more roots

good or bad idea?

the light is 1 metre away , its an aircooled light , the temps are now 22 C in the room and 18 C in the n00ts


im not adding any more h202 , im gunna change the n00ts in the morning , the n00t strength has increased , telling me the plant is using water

am i right or wrong , all advice is most welcome

i have looked at the plant sickness charts , didnt really help me .

Im thinking firstly i cooked it with heat , then spraying it with water stressed it further.

Edited by Lucian, 27 May 2004 - 06:00 PM.

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#18
Roadblock

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Hi
"i have dropped the water level in the bucket to 3-4 inches below the pot , i have also taken away the feeding ring , im gunna leave it for 2-3 days with no watering to see if i can get some more roots "

Sounds fine but be carefull not to let it dry out to much to the point of wilting , dont water untill the leaves are turgid , this may only take 6-8 hrs or so in those temps if you are using clay , just keep on eye it untill you see where she happy .

"the light is 1 metre away , its an aircooled light , the temps are now 22 C in the room and 18 C in the n00ts"

No problems , a little more heat would be better 26 -28

"im not adding any more h202 , im gunna change the n00ts in the morning , the n00t strength has increased , telling me the plant is using water"

Evaporation is more like the reason the water level has dropped , the airstone probably cause's water to evaporate more in bubblers than a tank without a airstone ( guessing , I have not used a bubbler ) .
I have always used a shallow low wide tank and moved the nutrient constantly with a pumps , this creates a lot of water surface area contacting the air , a lot more than a airstone contacts in a deep drum like tank .

The water ring is fine , alot of flow at water time is a good thing , just not every hour .

"i have looked at the plant sickness charts , didnt really help me ."

With todays feeds nutrient deficiencies caused by the nutrient is rare , nutrient deficiencies and symptoms generally come about because the plant has sat down and is wallowing , in this state it cannot metabolize nutrients properly and it shows signs of disease and or defiencies , like down leaf sets , it goes a darker green , purple veining appears etc etc in many cases it just a matter of being waterlogged , then stressed with light and heat it carnt cope with , when this happens during the flower cycle your stuffed because the plant wont repair itself during flowering , when it happens during grow you can grow the plant out of the rut in a week or maybe 2 sometimes depending on how long it has been sitting down on you .

To many people set the water cycles by some universial 4 times a day type deal this is crazy as grow room conditions and elements used are all different as are the strains .

The best growth potensial state a plant can be in at any stage of growth is turgid and if you get the plant into this state really early it will be growing at its maximum genetic rate and then the end result is governed by your setup and weekly routine , in the early days if you go too much with water a clone will sit down really easy , spend a little time configuring your watering schedule by looking at the plants and balancing the way it holds its leaves in relation to the water cycles , you may be surprised to see that the universial 4 times a day feeds are way out of tune with the dynamics of your growroom and plants , you may need 10 cycles with clay and or 1 with rockwool etc , get in tune with your plants and they will be very happy and so will you :D

Rod
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#19
Lucian

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it does seems to be over watering , but being in a bubbler (low flat blat food grade tub), the only way i can change that is to lower the water level .

New n00ts today , 760 ppm ph 5.7 temp 20 C 4-6 drops of superthrive

Although it still looks wilted , it has lotsa new grwoth were i took the old dead leaves off.

I also took the panda off the tub.

Im going away for the weekend , hope its still alive wehn i get home on monday night !!!!!!!
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#20
indooraussie

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h202 is a great steriliser but if plants are in the system when introducing use half the dose.i believe its either a nute deficiency as can occur with some brands.its a bubbler,sorry but cant be overwatered.it will show signs of overwatering if air pump is too small.24hr light is what i veg under indoors always.it does not mean slow root growth.its same as 18/6 only stops some strains autoflowering.a slight yellow in rooots is normal as they age as long as there are plenty of white,new root growth its fine.keep water level about an inch below pot.until mine hit the water level i only water once a day by hand and they run under a 1000w hps.i put a layer of rockwool in bottom of net pot to retain a bit of moisture.evaporation aint a prob as the lid shouldnt let out too much moisture.you are right plants are using water.dont panic just top up with ph adjusted water and levels will be fine.mate the purple stem on new growth says to me deficiency.some strains do develop the purple but later on in growth.but this is normal in only a few.mate this is only my opinions and all opinions vary.if there is new growth you may have already solved prob.

dwc system with bronzewhaler after 5 weeks veg from seed.about 21 days from time lights went down.approx 4ft tall and measures 5 1/4ft wide.this shot shows half of plant.

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