Chlorine and Chloramine Clarification & Removal Tips

[ConvexConepiece]

G'day everyone. If you're looking to increase your plant health, and ultimately you're harvest, read on and look no further than purifying the toxic source water our government -forces- upon us (at least those of us using town water). You will be surprised, and likely shocked after reading this.

 

After a search here, the very few threads that even mention chlorine or more importantly chloramine seem to have some poor information in them so i'm here to clarify... I think that this topic is EXTREMELY underestimated and unfortunately most of you are not informed as to the impact this is having on your plants nor prepared to deal with it.

 

First of all I want to give you all some background into what our councils do with townwater. When treated water leaves our treatment plants, the australian water guidelines (bold because it's unfortunately not a standard) say - depending on your state - that a residual free chlorine reading upwards of about 0.5 parts per million (ppm) should be coming out of your tap to keep the water microbiologically 'safe' to drink. Due to the design of the water supply infrastructure, the treatment plant must guess how much disinfectant to add on their end so that customers FAR AWAY from the plant get that minimum result. For every meter of pipework required to reach your home there is going to be organic matter which eats this chlorine hence why more than required is added. 

 

So what does this mean for many residents living closer to the plant? Your drinking water is likely swimming pool water. Yum. I regularly test this water and have years worth of spreadsheet data which strait up scares me due to how far OUT OF SPEC and up and all over the place the results are. Hence why I don't drink townwater anymore.

 

Alright so you now have a basic understanding of the delivery method used, now it's time for some info on the PRODUCTS used.

 

So we all know that regular chlorine is simply put a more pure version of bleach right?

 

So what exactly is chloramine? chloramine is a combination of chlorine + ammonia. Ammonia is pretty nasty stuff in itself however when it bonds to chlorine to create chloramine is basically creates a 'super' chlorine which is HIGHLY resistant to conventional means of removal from our water supplies. Good for the water company as it's easier for them to deliver the minimum residual to the ends of their pipes - and it's much cheaper for them - however this is BAD for consumers for many reasons, not only is it much more toxic to consume when the treatment plants put in too much but it's also LESS effective at killing e-coli which is one of the most important bugs it needs to kill. Not to mention the extra heavy metals it strips and leaches into the water. Scientifically speaking we are not even sure the long term effects on it's use are however there are many lawsuits in the US regarding cancer and the like coming to fruition now due to it's use over there.

 

Now let me clear up some misconceptions about the REMOVAL of chloramine.

 

• You can't remove it by boiling the water (well it can if boiled for a cpl hrs strait but not with a regular kettle)
• You can't remove it by aeration or letting the water stand (takes a few weeks in my testing)
• Even standard reverse osmosis systems do not fully remove it unless you run it slowly through multiple carbon filters, usually specialty purpose catalytic ones.

 

So what can you do to remove this nasty stuff?

 

• Adding sodium thiosulphate (dechlorinator solutions used in aquarium industry are usually made of this) will neutralize the chlorine part of it
• Specialty carbon filters for an RO system can remove MOST of it if setup correctly.

 

Worth mentioning however is that even if you remove/break the bonds for the chlorine aspect of chloramine, you still have the ammonia left. Ammonia isn't as big a problem for plants as it is for aquatic life and human consumption - actually ammonia is in fertilizers - however like all nutrients it's not something you want too much of and we all like to control exactly what our plants drink, right? 

 

edit: clarifying for accuracy that when pH is under 7 - as we usually use here - ammonia becomes ammonium.

 

So in conclusion, next time you do a water change please do your plants a favour - don't pour bleach or it's even nastier cousin on them.... these compounds are OXIDISERS and by nature they DESTROY living organisms and tissues. A bottle of dechlorinator solution is CHEAP and in my experience better than 90% of the additives on the market to boost your buds. Oh and did I mention our bodies don't enjoy drinking bleach either?? Anyone who has an aquarium knows that strait townwater into their tank kills everything in minutes.... if fish can't tolerate it why do we??

 

I know that QLD and NSW use chloramine and i'm sure other states do but water companies don't actively promote it's usage so please check with your local council.

 

Happy to answer any further Qs, on this or general water purification (i'm a water and chemical engineer). Be great to hear feedback from happy converts who notice a difference in plant health 

Edited April 8, 2014 by ConvexConepiece

[pegz]

Tap water scare, really? This almost comes across as scare mongering or an advertisement, sure you're not trying to sell something here?

 

From what I understand, Chlorine (chloramine) -  in the context of tap water) is something that in theory may affect soil health negatively in that it could possibly interfere with beneficial bacteria and micro organism activity.

 

Aside form this I haven't seen anything to suggest that the chlorine content in tap water is bad for plant health or that it has any effect at all. I use tap water and my shit is thriving (though I should say that I am in a good area as far as water quality is concerned, unlike some.)

[Frank Reynolds]

Afaik Victoria at least melb is using chlorine in their water

[ConvexConepiece]

Tap water scare, really? This almost comes across as scare mongering or an advertisement, sure you're not trying to sell something here?

 

From what I understand, Chlorine (chloramine) -  in the context of tap water) is something that in theory may affect soil health negatively in that it could possibly interfere with beneficial bacteria and micro organism activity.

 

Aside form this I haven't seen anything to suggest that the chlorine content in tap water is bad for plant health or that it has any effect at all. I use tap water and my shit is thriving (though I should say that I am in a good area as far as water quality is concerned, unlike some.)

 

Scare mongering? heh I didn't even touch on flouride... if I did you'd probably run to get a tin foil hat.

 

And selling something? please. I've been a member here a long time and contributed more than you ever will.

 

From what you understand, chlorine in tap water doesn't cause SERIOUS negative effects.

 

What i'm saying is that you just don't know how much better the results can be when you are better informed on the matter. It's a passive but continual hindrance to the plants. Like I said chlorine is an oxidiser, to think it's not doing any harm to organic matter is quite silly.

 

BTW anyone using beneficial bacteria additives... you're wasting your money unless you are removing the chlorine.

 

Try it or don't, I mean what would I know I only work in a lab.....   I post this because I know first hand exactly what this stuff is all about, and that not many folks in this circle are at all aware.

Can't hurt to try it is what i'm saying.

Edited April 8, 2014 by ConvexConepiece

[ConvexConepiece]

Afaik Victoria at least melb is using chlorine in their water

 

I am under that assumption as well however councils are definitely moving towards chloramine and they sure as shit won't go out of their way to tell you when they do.

 

There was plenty of pissed off aquarists when sydney changed over without notice and their whole tanks died.... many were using RO water and assumed nothing could pass through it, and while it caught a lot of the chlorine,  the added ammonia is what did the damage (ammonia passes through the RO membrane and is only removed by D.I resin).

Edited April 8, 2014 by ConvexConepiece

[pegz]

Scare mongering? heh I didn't even touch on flouride... if I did you'd probably run to get a tin foil hat.

 

And selling something? please. I've been a member here a long time and contributed more than you ever will.

 

From what you understand, chlorine in tap water doesn't cause SERIOUS negative effects.

 

What i'm saying is that you just don't know how much better the results can be when you are better informed on the matter. It's a passive but continual hindrance to the plants. Like I said chlorine is an oxidiser, to think it's not doing any harm to organic matter is quite silly.

 

BTW anyone using beneficial bacteria additives... you're wasting your money unless you are removing the chlorine.

 

Try it or don't, I mean what would I know I only work in a lab.....   I post this because I know first hand exactly what this stuff is all about, and that not many folks in this circle are at all aware.

Can't hurt to try it is what i'm saying.

 

OK but show me an article where any of what you've mentioned has actually been studied, particularly in regards to plant health/growth and water sources.

 

There's no doubt that chlorine is a toxic substance, but as the saying goes "the dose makes the poison."

Edited April 8, 2014 by pegz

[ConvexConepiece]

OK but show me an article where any of what you've mentioned has actually been studied, particularly in regards to plant health/growth and water sources.

 

There's no doubt that chlorine is a toxic substance, but as the saying goes "the dose makes the poison."

 

Mate I could google and link you up all day long to studies on both sides of the fence. 

 

At the end of the day our best and brightest scientists still argue whether eggs are good for our health or not. Get my drift?

 

The info I provide here is my qualified experience that I took the time to share for those willing to give it a try. Certainly no harm can come from it.

 

I have extensively tested townwater specs and many times recorded above 3ppm for chlorine, which is more than twice what the average pool runs. If the level was kept in spec there would be no probs, but especially those of us who run DWC can benefit from peace of mind of source water stability knowing the protective slime coat on roots isn't being eaten.

 

Those in soil applications will give the beneficial bacteria in their pots a chance to form colonies without being wiped out by chlorine every time they are watered (google the nitrogen cycle if curious, low levels of chlorine DEFINITELY wipes these good guys out).

 

I can tell you right now that in large scale irrigation (ie. botannical gardens and the like) a max. safe value of 1.0 ppm chlorine is often considered the upper limit. It's well known that town water spikes, especially times they do maintenance on the lines or have an outbreak of bacteria in the system (once again they don't tell us when that happens and it's more often than you might think).

 

Final thought I hope to quell the negatives here until you try it, i'll leave you with a wiki quote...

 

"Chlorine (referred to in water treatment as free chlorine) is being displaced by chloramine—to be specific monochloramine—which is much more stable and does not dissipate as rapidly as free chlorine. NH₂Cl also has a very much lower, however still present, tendency than free chlorine to convert organic materials into chlorocarbons such aschloroform and carbon tetrachloride. Such compounds have been identified as carcinogens and in 1979 the United States Environmental Protection Agency began regulating their levels in U.S. drinking water."

 

Soooo it's been proven to be carcinogenic. Enough proof yet?

Edited April 8, 2014 by ConvexConepiece

[pegz]

"Chlorine (referred to in water treatment as free chlorine) is being displaced by chloramine—to be specific monochloramine—which is much more stable and does not dissipate as rapidly as free chlorine. NH₂Cl also has a very much lower, however still present, tendency than free chlorine to convert organic materials into chlorocarbons such aschloroform and carbon tetrachloride. Such compounds have been identified as carcinogens and in 1979 the United States Environmental Protection Agency began regulating their levels in U.S. drinking water."

 

Soooo it's been proven to be carcinogenic. Enough proof yet?

 

There's no doubt that chlorine is a toxic substance, but as the saying goes "the dose makes the poison."

 

 

 

 

Apple seeds contain a substance called amygdalin that can release cyanide under the right circumstances such as contact with digestive enzymes.

 

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/questions/question/2737/

 

OMG Cyanide! Does this mean we should all stop eating apples? See what I did there?

 

I'm not really worried about 3ppm of a substances that has proven to be safe for animal and plant consumption, (or at least for terrestrial species.) My only concern is for soil health, is tap water killing my beneficial? A lot of gardeners wonder this, realistically the only real way to be certain would be to test the soil.

[ConvexConepiece]

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/questions/question/2737/

 

OMG Cyanide! Does this mean we should all stop eating apples? See what I did there?

 

I'm not really worried about 3ppm of a substances that has proven to be safe for animal and plant consumption, (or at least for terrestrial species.) My only concern is for soil health, is tap water killing my beneficial? A lot of gardeners wonder this, realistically the only real way to be certain would be to test the soil.

 

Well judging by your posts your not a serious grower either so I don't expect you to worry.

 

"has been proven to be safe for animal and plant consumption" - not sure where you got that from, did you miss the carcinogenic quote above?

 

 

And yes, even tap water in spec is enough to kill beneficials.

 

If you are curious then fine i'm here to provide more info on this, but if your here to try and disprove my experience with your lack thereof then keep moving please.

Edited April 8, 2014 by ConvexConepiece

[pegz]

I'm not denying your experience mate.

 

Filtration systems are preferable, absolutely, that said most plants do perfectly fine on tap water, indoor and out.