what male

[Lenore]

All the water on earth has been consumed many times over

 

I know. I was just being silly.

[reflux 1]

would that make greenhouse seeds the better option for those strains, im guessing black widow would be the best white widow, ive always turned away from black widow becouse the late finish time its said to have, i have studies the white widow family tree, and its said only two breeders had access to the original ww stock, that was greenhouse and nirvarna

[Naycha]

would that make greenhouse seeds the better option for those strains, im guessing black widow would be the best white widow, ive always turned away from black widow becouse the late finish time its said to have, i have studies the white widow family tree, and its said only two breeders had access to the original ww stock, that was greenhouse and nirvarna

 

The point you are missing is that F1 strains (that is the first cross of two genetically different strains) are a poor choice for novice breeding.

 

Naycha

[bufo marinus]

That's a fair call Doc, most people assume the same

 

As to how many males to cross with I think if you're an amateur breeder it's probably a good idea to start with 3 males and 1 female and concentrate on the one strain/cross. Try and notice internode lengths, pollen production, smell on the males.

 

That's some good advice right there from Louise though that needs to be considered. Inbreeding of unstable hybrids is hit and mostly miss for back yard breeding, simple as that.

... which is where the Skunk genes become useful... if that's really what you want to do.

 

Something to consider... Blueberry was bred from a decent Afghani(which are hard to find) and a couple different Thai varieties. Anyone who has been lucky enough to score a decent Blueberry will tell you they do smell like Blueberries, aside from the fact(coincidence) they can get a nice bluey purple leaf with dropping temps in winter, the selection process from DJ Shorts was without a doubt some great work    ... however, if you think about it, I'd be guessing the selection process was possibly more obvious/clear cut? with such diverse lineages. Is Blueberry truebreeding?.. apparently so, that's why it deserves the accolades because it's had all off the shit bred out of it. If you cross one Blueberry with another Blueberry, you get a Blueberry, same as Skunk #1, they are the rare few 'true breeding man made hybrids'.

I understand your frustration even after your best efforts but don't be too hard on yourself, you're dealing with limited numbers in a limited area in less than perfect conditions.

Space is the biggest killer with breeding, you need to grow out hundreds to really get a feel for the variations... even then things can turn to shit easily with stray pollen and hermies.

Me personally, I'd be looking at trying to maintain and improve landrace sativas and landrace Indicas,... not easy though, good luck with it all

[DoctorWho]

Apparently dj short had very limited numbers and space when first starting out.  The biggest advantage he had though was the generation he was born into because when you bought cannabis back then you were buying landraces.  He didn't have to deal with hybrids until he made them and has said a few times that the F2 generation is the place to look for greatness due to massive expression of traits not found in the F1 generation.  Its worth mentioning at this point though that he's also said that if its illegal to grow where you are that you will need to go well beyond the sane levels of plant numbers in order to see how the genetics are playing out and find said greatness.  Considering he was saying that while working with landraces I hate to imagine what his opinion would be of working with modern genetics

 

Personally without access to a lab where I can legally test plants I would take bufo's advice of using a single lady with multiple males.  You can be sure of the lady's quality but since the males are a bit more difficult it would probably be best to get a few that are very close to your ideal male and let them all seed the lady up.  You will still have a fair bit of variety but given a few generations close enough will become stable enough while giving you the best chance of not screwing up the genepool with each generation.  You will notice a loss in vigor, yield, etc. but over time everything will even out leaving you with a stable and predictable strain and since grow bug will have had you for years at that point you'll have hybrids to play with to make up for the things the original strain has started to lack over time like yield. 

 

You could selectively breed but unless you have the space, time and can have plant numbers that land you directly in prison without losing your cool it would be best to go the good enough route.   If you decided to selectively breed multiple strains your problems become infinitely worse but good enough is just cutting down the shitter looking males each grow.  The potential for creating something truly great is found in selective breeding but with that great reward comes great risk and for the vast majority of people creating something 90% as good as something truly great is good enough because while not mind blowing good they've still created something to be proud of.  It might not be that one in a million plant locked down in seed form but its not going to take a million plants to make either.  All you need is a few handfuls of plants and a bit of experience with the strains you're working with to give the breeding a guiding hand in the right direction

[Faith]

Nice thread cannabis community-taking it all in

Peace. v

[louise]

The point you are missing is that F1 strains (that is the first cross of two genetically different strains) are a poor choice for novice breeding.

 

Naycha

 

 

Uniform, stable indica doms from the *Sensi stable....

 

Hindu Kush

Maple Leaf Indica

Afghani#1

First Lady (don't top this strain, unless you want to scrog... topping often results in excessive lateral branching)

Skunk #1

Super Skunk

 

*Sorry, don't know any of the other companies well enough to make suggestions.

[reflux 1]

thank you stoners, my insight to breeding is somewhat better know, i am a bit unsure why my first cross turns out so well, with it being F2, but i guess its been more luck than anything, anyway really great info, cant thank you guys girls enough,  to sum things up, to achieve a stable of-springs which stays stable for several generations, instead of researching best strains, i instead research best stable hi-breeds, or land race strains yes.

[louise]

A qualified yes!

The qualification is that you should look to stable hybrids or traditional cultivars, rather than landraces... landrace is a much misused term in cannabis circles. A landrace strain is a wild growing plant that has not been selectively improved.

 

Selective improvement simply means that the farmer selects the most desirable plants to make seed for the next sowing, ie. the best plants are selected for breeding over the years. This leads to domestication and the development of unique, true breeding, localised strains.

 

These localised strains are considered the 'traditional cannabis cultivars'... ie these are the sorts of genetic lines that were collected from the Asian subcontinent and elsewhere, during 70's by the western strain hunters.

 

Unfortunately, some seed banks have picked up on the popularity of the word and use it in their advertising hype to sell seeds that may, or may not, traditional cultivars, but are definitely not landrace strains.

 

The only true landrace strains in use are the ruderalis plants used to make autoflowering strains.

 

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I'm sure someone will come along and say this is all wrong... but that's ok... all it means in the end is you'll need to sift through the information, check it against other sources and decide for yourself which line of argument is valid. 

 

Enjoy

Edited January 12, 2014 by louise

[reflux 1]

thanks again, very informative, right when i thought i knew pretty much every thing about cannabis, it turns out i dont, back to my research i guess