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What is my plant trying to tell me?


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Hello all,

 

Just after some expert opinions. Please bare with me while I fill out the form thing...

 

Indoor/Outdoor:

Indoor

 

Growing Medium:

Expanded clay

 

Growing Style:

Flood and drain

 

Watering/Feeding Frequency:

Initially every 6 hours for half an hour (4x over 24hrs). Increased to every 2 hours (12x over 24hrs) - Reasons stated below

 

Nutrient Strength (PPM/EC):

Started at E.C. = 1.30 but increased to 2.2 due to falling E.C. compared to water intake.

 

PH Levels:

Set to 5.5, allowed to raise to 6.8ish before readjusting

Temperature/Humidity Levels:

Not 100% sure. Room has ducted air con, Set faily cool (I'm an eskimo) but the lamps bring it back up a bit. About 20-22 deg cel?

Air Flow/Fans etc.:

Not sure what my air flow is, but I dont run a carbon scrubber (on a big block, neighbors far away and no one comes to this grow location). The ex fan is a large inline one with the large ducting. It moves a tonne of air but I forget what its rated at. This, along with the ducted aircon which I crawled into the roof and opened up 100% to the room and restricted all other outlets (there is an adjustable wingnut on most systems for anyone interested) produces a lot of airflow. Just the air duct alone rustles the leaves of the plants with out the need for a fan. I have one of those anyway though.

Lighting Type (CFL/HPS/MH etc.):

I have 2x600watt HPS lamps which on either side of 1x400watt MH. The MH will be replaced with a 600w HPS during flower as well (when the small tent finishes up in 3 weeks or so and I can raid the light.)

 

Total Wattage:

Thats 1600Watts in veg and will be 1800watts in flower (from about week 2 of flower)

 

Growth Stage:

My girls have been in veg for a while but got off to a slow start. I think they been there about 2.5/3 weeks

 

Plants Age:

2.5/3 weeks. My friend and I have found this strain notoriously slow to show roots when cloned. Clones appear to stay dormant for 3 weeks then almost overnight they all simultaniously spill out roots. All 20 clones that were taken. Weired.

 

Cannabis Strain:

Chemdog by Greenhouse.

 

Okay!

Now I got that out the way... my issue.

You've probably all experienced something similar. Under the 600w HPS lights, the plants really yellow out. Its like they are getting burnt by the light but not quite. The lights are quite far away and due to my poor design and plant numbes the globes dont actually sit directly over any of the plants. ( I know, I am missing the sweet spot ). Each light covers 4 pots, so they are like.. : | : haha no other way to explain it with asci :D

Actually I could draw my whole grow like that lol : | : : | : : | : 12 pots and 3 lights.

 

The nute levels surprisingly stayed at 2.20 E.C. for a whole week which made me think that might have been the sweet spot. Pretty high but I was running at 1.8 last week and over the week the water would drop but the E.C. was dropping faster!

 

I have taken some photo's and tried to capture the height of the lights to show they are not sitting right on top of the girls. I have also taken some shots of two leaves off the one plant. The one towards the wall is nice and green, dark, beautiful. The one towards the light is yellowing out, and even shows perhaps some moisture stress? I was getting some leave rolling which you can see in some of the shots which is why I increased the flood frequency. I know a lot of people recomend like 3 or 4 times over 24hrs but one of my first flood and drains was 15 minutes every hour and it was a bloody awesome grow!

 

This is kind of an birds eye view of one of the lights. You can see the 4 girls it covers.

post-49657-0-32155500-1353079990_thumb.jpg

 

This is a shot from the side to show height... Is it too close? 600W HPS

post-49657-0-02566200-1353079872_thumb.jpg

 

This is the plant that is in the corner, top right in the birds eye shot. This is the inside closes to the HPS bulb. Doesnt look as healthy as it could be.

post-49657-0-68919700-1353079651_thumb.jpg

 

This is a leaf that is facing the wall, This is typical of all the leaves that are not copping direct HPS light. The MH in the middle does not do this to the plants either, but its only 400w

post-49657-0-55102800-1353079538_thumb.jpg

 

AND I sacrificed two of the shade leaves to bring you this side by side shot. These are both off the same plant, HPS side and the side closest to the wall.

post-49657-0-36944400-1353079744_thumb.jpg

 

 

So back to my original question... what should I do here?

 

Raise lights? This is a VERY lanky strain as it is.

Increase nutrient? Its at 2.20EC at the moment. I dont want to go any higher than that.

 

Any critisisms/comments are welcomed. Just trying to grow the best I can but I am missing something here I recon.

 

Cheers.

 

MJ.

post-49657-0-92443900-1353079402_thumb.jpg

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I have never grown in a flood drain system , but i do use a 600 w imo i dont think it looks to close ,i keep my light about 30 cm from the plants and just use a old metal 30 cm to give it quick check .Unsure if it is bs or not , but i run a oscillating fan blowing between the plants and light ,was lead to believe is stops the heat building up around light . i also use a cool tube .
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Increase the feed schedule and drop your EC...

 

If 2.2 EC goes in and 2.2 EC comes out, they`re eating nothing...bet they drinking like fish though, yeah? pH levels of the runoff tell a tale here too...

Thats where I`d be looking anyways.

 

Make sure your ventilation is working properly too. The incoming air is being properly exhausted out of the area? This alone can play all sorts of games with your head and have you chasing other avenues needlessly.

 

A good guide to lamp height is put your hand, palm down under the lamp and find where its warm without burning. Thats about where you want it, usually 20-30cm away for a bare 600W bulb.

 

Something I do know... that ballast 1/2 covered in panda or whatevers goin on, thats a fire hazard right there. That lead on the floor is dodgy as fuck too mate. Get your ballasts out of the room if possible and get that lead off the bloody ground :D

 

3 lamps, 12 pots- decent setup :thumbsup:

 

JAIKAI

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I cant help you much, I dont do flood n drain.

 

But I think your ec is a bit too high, the way you say the ph and ec swing doesnt sit right with me either. Air should be in at the bottom, swirling the o2 around the roots and up exhausting the hot air out the top.

 

So maybe ya roots are not as happy, makes me think there is a root issue by the looks of the leaves. I would have thought you would flood for lees time, but more frequently too. How clean is ya resi?

 

I really dont think its the air flow or lights that is the problem, so it must be either root issue or what/how they are eating.

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Thanks for your replies guys!!

 

I very much appreaciate it. Hopefully I can get things ironed out.

 

Increase the feed schedule and drop your EC...

 

If 2.2 EC goes in and 2.2 EC comes out, they`re eating nothing...bet they drinking like fish though, yeah? pH levels of the runoff tell a tale here too...

Thats where I`d be looking anyways.

 

Make sure your ventilation is working properly too. The incoming air is being properly exhausted out of the area? This alone can play all sorts of games with your head and have you chasing other avenues needlessly.

 

A good guide to lamp height is put your hand, palm down under the lamp and find where its warm without burning. Thats about where you want it, usually 20-30cm away for a bare 600W bulb.

 

Something I do know... that ballast 1/2 covered in panda or whatevers goin on, thats a fire hazard right there. That lead on the floor is dodgy as fuck too mate. Get your ballasts out of the room if possible and get that lead off the bloody ground :D

 

3 lamps, 12 pots- decent setup :thumbsup:

 

JAIKAI

 

Hi JAIKAI,

The EC was staying at 2.2 as the plants were drinking the water down. So I presumed the EC although a lot higher than I would normaly run it was about the correct range. Just the pH slowly creeps up but I am not adjusting that as often as I may have implied. It gets to around 6.2 or 6.3 and seems to stabalised so I just leave it until I add back.

 

You could be onto something with the feeding times. I was going down the same line and thats why I increased to every 2 hours from every 6 hours but it doesnt seem to have helped much.

 

As for ventilation: The ducted air in is thumping. I got up into the roof and restricted all the other rooms in the house and opened up that room. The plants are no more than about knee hight from floor to top leaves as I have been LST'ing the fuck out of them. A couple of them HST due to my heavy handedness :D Even at this height the aircon blowing is rustling the leaves and swinging the lights a little. So air in is pretty high I suspect. On the other end of things the extraction fan is doing a good job too. I think it is sucking harder than the aircon is blowin. Around the door you can see dust where the air has been getting sucked into the room. Its running at a negative pressure due to the big arse inline fan I bolted to the wall.

 

As for those ballasts, good spot :P Their just papper weights tho. I use to have 4x400w magnetic ballasts but switched to 3x600. One is in a tent outside the 12 pot room. The other two are with the 12 pots and one of the 400's as well. The remainding 3x400w ballasts are weights along the window sill to help hold the panda on. The tape has started to come off over the years. In that pick you can kind of see one cord going to the ballast but none coming out. Its because I am using the same light shades/GES fittings on the 600's

 

 

I cant help you much, I dont do flood n drain.

 

But I think your ec is a bit too high, the way you say the ph and ec swing doesnt sit right with me either. Air should be in at the bottom, swirling the o2 around the roots and up exhausting the hot air out the top.

 

So maybe ya roots are not as happy, makes me think there is a root issue by the looks of the leaves. I would have thought you would flood for lees time, but more frequently too. How clean is ya resi?

 

I really dont think its the air flow or lights that is the problem, so it must be either root issue or what/how they are eating.

 

Good morning El Gato :)

Unfortunately my air intake comes in the top via the ducted air so you could be onto something there too. In order to counter this fact what I have done is point the duct cover things to the bottom left of the room. My air exaust is in the top right. So the air comes in top dead center but is flung to the bottom left. On the left hand side I also have an oscilating fan. Air is expelled from the top right.

 

Air temps in the room are a little on the cold side if anything. I did grow an amazing mazar one year but never took clones :( it was so purple it wasn't funny. All my mates thought I had done something lame like injected food dye in it. But I put it down to the low temps I was running at the time. Now days I run it a bit higher, around 20 if I was to guess. I have to get a room thermomiter tho.

 

Upon your comments I may reduce the flooding time, but not play with the frequency as I have only just increased frequency.

 

When you were saying the pH swings dont sit well, what did you mean? Am I chasing the pH wrong? Should I not adjust it too much? I think maybe you were refering to root rot causing pH swings but not sure. I am open to comments on how I should be managing my pH and E.C. though so please if anyone has any comments fire away. I will be running a lower E.C. at nute change today. I might drop back to 1.90/2.00 and see how things travel.

 

The strange thing is the plants not under the 600w seem fine. Under the 400 MH they look nice (although not as compact. this chemdog has very long internodes as it is!). As a matter of fact the part of the plant under the 600w seems to be doing worse than the parts copping reflection off the wall etc.

 

So the changes I am going to make now:

Full nute change, 1.9 EC 5.5pH

Reduce flood duration to 10-15 minutes

Monitor flood duration and frequency to make sure pots are filling to MAX and sitting for a minute or two before draining out. Make adjustments if required.

Move Oscilating fan from left hand side to right hand side. Change things up a bit :)

 

THank you all for your comments. Any other suggestions/comments/critisisms hit me.

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3 lamps, 12 pots- decent setup :thumbsup:

JAIKAI

 

I didnt see this bid :D Thanks.

My previous harvest limit was 36 ounces. That was 4x400watt lights over 3x bubbler buckets under a large screen. Doing the maths, I would only need 3 ounces off each of these to hit that record. This strain disapointingly yeilds very little but its a pretty darn good smoke. I will be looking to aquire a higher yeilding strain soon. Just have to decide what to go with. I dont want to compromise on quality too much. Got some seed banks open in my browser at the moment trying to decide :)

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Bet ya $20 if ya put ya temp probe on the top of the canopy instead of it being IN the canopy...............all will be revealed.........

 

Hi Hash Nibbler,

 

I'll have to source a thermometor or digital temp probe on monday. Can you recomend any sort in particular? I think if anything its too cold in there sometimes. The lamps are quite a distance from the cannopy and its not like a cramped cupboard or tent. There is plenty of room for heat disipation and there is a tonne of cold air being fed in by an oversized ducted aircon. When I got it installed I told the bloke I was bricking in the car port and turning it into another room and could he please quote for a unit big enough to keep that area cool as well. There for the unit is huge for my house and the majority of it is pumped into that room and back out.

 

I doubt that its too hot, but I've been wrong MANY times befor so I will take your advice and put something there to tell me the temp.

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When you were saying the pH swings dont sit well, what did you mean? Am I chasing the pH wrong? Should I not adjust it too much? I think maybe you were refering to root rot causing pH swings but not sure.

It seems to swing alot imo, but I dont do hydro or tap water (just guessing you do). I add rain water, a&b, check Ph about 5.5, add additives, ph 6.0+/-.2 (lucky I know) even after 5 days my ph is still within range, hardly moves. Once Ph is set I dont need to touch it. I feed and if I check my run off its always Ph 6.2.

 

Just the way it is for me so thats why it doesnt sit right with me, thinking that there is other things wrong like root rot or similar.

 

As for the cold it will only slow them down a bit, not that ya temps are too extream that it would affect them enough to complain.

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