Synthetic cannabis products researched

[Frazz]

I find the chemistry of these 'herbal/chemical substitutes' very complex to understand as my grasp of chemistry is quite feeble

so i have research the subject on the internet (which may or may not be propaganda, but i wouldnt know for sure as im not a chemist)

 

in the hope that it may help some gain a better understanding of these herbal/chemical substitutes,

i have reproduced some material, with references below, that i found:

 

 

John William Huffman (born 1932) is a professor emeritus of organic chemistry at Clemson University who first synthesised many novel cannabinoids,

including JWH-007, JWH-015, JWH-018, JWH-019, JWH-030, JWH-051, JWH-073, JWH-081, JWH-122, JWH-133, JWH-147, JWH-171, JWH-182, JWH-203, JWH-210, JWH-250, JWH-307, JWH-359 and JWH-398.

 

Over the course of twenty years, Huffman and his team of researchers developed 450 synthetic cannabinoid compounds which were used to test the effect of cannabinoid receptors in the brain and other organs.

 

In the late 2000s, two of Huffman's cannabinoid compounds began being sold in Germany as marijuana alternatives known as K2 and Spice.

"I figured once it got started in Germany it was going to spread. I'm concerned that it could hurt people," Huffman said.

"I think this was something that was more or less inevitable. It bothers me that people are so stupid as to use this stuff".[1]

 

Huffman may have developed these compounds for scientific research, but now he gets blamed for its abuse.

Angered by this accusation, Huffman says "If you go around paying $40 for a packet of leaves that contains who knows what and smoke it, you are not a very responsible person".

As JWH-018 is more potent and easy to make, Huffman believes it is more widely used synthetic cannabinoid of the JWH series.[2a]

 

In an interview, Huffman said: "It's like playing russian roulette because we don’t have toxicity data, we don’t know the metabolites, and we don’t know the pharmacokinetics".[3]

Still, he feels that he is not responsible for the actions of those who use them; he created these research compounds and published them - "I wasn’t the least bit surprised (that they were being produced).

Somebody is going to look for something to make money from and to bring people temporary pleasure"[2b]

 

Agonist = An agonist is a chemical that binds to a receptor of a cell and triggers a response by that cell.

Agonists often mimic the action of a naturally occurring substance, an agonist causes an action ~ http en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agonist

 

JWH-018 (1-pentyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole) or AM-678[1] is an analgesic chemical from the naphthoylindole family, which acts as a full agonist at both the CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptors, with some selectivity for CB2.

It produces effects in animals similar to those of THC, a cannabinoid naturally present in cannabis, leading to its use in synthetic cannabis products such as "legal cannabis herbal incense blends", including Spice, Relaxinol, and Mr. Nice Guy, which are 'legally' sold as "incense" and labeled as "not for human consumption", but abundantly abused - much akin to huffing of spray paint or other noxious chemicals, at times with tragic results.[3,4,5.6]

 

 

On December 15, 2008, it was reported by the German pharmaceutical company THC Pharm that JWH-018 was found as one of the active components in at least three versions of the herbal blend Spice, which has been sold as an incense in a number of countries around the world since 2002.[7,8,9]

An analysis of samples acquired four weeks after the German prohibition of JWH-018 took place found that the compound had been replaced with JWH-073.[10]

 

On October 15, 2011, coroner reports released to the media reveal that the death of a South Carolina college basketball player was attributed to "drug toxicity and organ failure caused by JWH-018[11]

 

Withdrawal Phenomena and Dependence Syndrome After the Consumption of "Spice Gold"

Case presentation and course

 

A 20-year old patient reported that he had smoked "Spice Gold" daily for 8 months. He developed tolerance and rapidly increased the dose to 3 g per day.

He felt a continuous desire for the drug and kept on using it despite the development of persistent cognitive impairment.

His substance use led him to neglect his duties in his professional training position. Urinary drug screens were negative on admission to the hospital, as they were again on discharge.

 

On hospital days 4–7, he developed inner unrest, drug craving, nocturnal nightmares, profuse sweating, nausea, tremor, and headache.

His blood pressure was elevated for two days, with a maximal value of 180/90 mm Hg accompanied by a heart rate of 125/min.

The patient stated that he had experienced a similar syndrome a few weeks earlier during a phase of abstinence owing to a short supply, and that it had quickly subsided after he had started consuming "Spice" once again.

 

The patient described how "Spice Gold" acted similarly to cannabis and was relaxing and sedative. It produced ravenous cravings.

However, the main difference between "Spice" and cannabis was that "Spice" produced less euphoria.

Overall he felt that the effect of "Spice" was stronger than that of hashish.

 

A sample of "Spice Gold" was bought through the Internet and then examined by gas chromatography and mass spectroscopy.

No cannabinoids or other familiar ingredients of illegal drugs could be detected.

The psychotropic effect of the sample was confirmed by two experienced consumers of cannabis through inhaling the smoke.[12]

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References

[1] "Clemson University :: Department of Chemistry". Clemson.edu. 2010-08-24. www.clemson.edu/chemistry/people/huffman.html

[2a,b] Wang, Linda (June 28, 2010). "C&EN Talks With John W. Huffman". Chemical & Engineering News 88 (26): 43.October 8, 2011. http cen.acs.org/signin.html?resource=/content/cen/articles/88/i26/John-W-Huffman

[3^ Zimmermann, US; Winkelmann, PR; Pilhatsch, M; Nees, JA; Spanagel, R; Schulz, K (2009). "Withdrawal Phenomena and Dependence Syndrome After the Consumption of "Spice Gold"". Dtsch Arztebl Int 106 (27): 464–467. doi:10.3238/arztebl.2009.0464. PMC 2719097. PMID 19652769.

[4]Aung, M. M.; et al. (2000). "Influence of the N-1 alkyl chain length of cannabimimetic indoles upon CB1 and CB2 receptor binding". Drug and Alcohol Dependence 60 (2): 133–140. doi:10.1016/S0376-8716(99)00152-0. PMID 10940540

[5]US patent 6900236, Alexandros Makriyannis, Hongfeng Deng, "Cannabimimetic indole derivatives", issued 2005-05-31

[6]US patent 7241799, Alexandros Makriyannis, Hongfeng Deng, "Cannabimimetic indole derivatives", issued 2007-07-10

[7]www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71910

[8]www.fr-online.de/frankfurt_und_hessen/nachrichten/frankfurt/1646010_Gefaehrlicher-Kick-mit-Spice.html

[9]www.haz.de/newsroom/wissen/zentral/wissen/art680,757107#

[10]www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19589652

[11]www.wyff4.com/news/29497549/detail.html

[12]www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2719097/?tool=pmcentrez

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Discussion welcome

 

Whew ... I'm gunna get stoned now on Real Cannabis

[magpie1]

Hey Frazz

Watch the interview with Matt Bowden the maker of kronic,

Its on the 60minutes web site titled High Stakes.

It was on 60minutes 13/11/11

Cheers

[uncle chron]

holey fuck

waaaaaay too early

i think i need about 10 more coffees to be able to comprehend all that

 

 

 

[The Hash Nibbler]

I'm withya Frazz =) , yeah , they basically have 1 million variations of the chemical combination that make a synthetic cannabanoid. So every time you ban that chemical compound , they alter it to a new compound to be able to continue to sell it in countries That then ban the substances. By the time they ban it, the new batch is in circulation, with a different chemical makeup.

 

I been sayin it all along, this Synthetic shit aint good for ya, and there have been deaths from it's use. Says it all really.

To me , it's just another Pharma company taking advantage of the system. Legalized drug dealing.

Not to mention, this shit is not being tested to ensure it's safe for daily consumption, if your a stoner, but wanna stay legal, that would be a bit too.

 

Gotta hand it to em, they smart, but it's all about the $$$$$, No good will come of this....

 

...unless different strains of cannabis have different THC make up, and when your charged with a cannabis offence, you ask , be more specific, and you want the exact chemical compisition of the Cannabis which is banned, then you grow something different.... I'm just stoned. wild idea... . Peace. Gh72

[jabez]

Come on people. I’m sure you are all fully aware of the crap the media blatantly write about cannabis to support government policy rather than the reality of the situation. I think it might be a bit short sighted to start flashing around a few badly written media reports as if it must be gospel truth and overwhelming evidence that these chemicals are unfit for human consumption, just because it’s a drug you don’t like.

 

Obviously, if drug tests didn’t exist, people didn’t have to fear the police and everybody’s living arrangements allowed them to grow there own, then there would be no reason for people to use these chemicals. But the reality is, a lot people aren’t in this situation, yet still want to (and have the right, imo) stimulate their cannabinoid receptors for either medical or recreational purposes. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

 

I mean, at the end of the day that’s all JWH-018 (which was the main chemical in the original kronic) does, ‘it stimulates your cannabinoid receptors’. It produces a generic high that’s not unsimilar to smoking skunk #1. I don’t personally think there’s any real harm. Although obviously people would want to remember that it’s a potent synthetic drug and not weed. So irresponsible use could possibly cause an over dose, but the same could be said about alcohol!

 

Anyway, personally I see these new class of synthetic drugs causing a revolution of sorts, if authorities don’t smarten up with there drug policies. I think its ironic and even slightly exciting, .

 

Traditionally drugs that are illegal have always usually had a distinct aroma or appearance and have had to mostly be harvested from organic sources to be produced, not to mention that most traditional illegal drugs that are popular in society are fairly easy to test for.

 

Now, even though JWH-018 (for example) is now illegal in Australia, in reality it’s probably incredibly hard for police to detect, since the traditional methods they use for detecting illegal substances aren’t designed to detect JWH-018.

 

So every time the government bans one of these chemicals, not only will it make it harder for the police to convince the public they have control of the situation, but it will also cause these chemists to design another chemical which is potentially more potent and harder to detect every time. Eventually it will get to the stage where there’s chemicals all over the place that are identical in effect to MDMA, cocaine, speed and all the rest of them, yet they will be nearly impossible for authorities to detect.

 

It’s just a little theory of mine. But either way I’m personally going to have a lot of fun watching the massive hole the authorities dig for themselves taking on the amazing science of modern day pharmacology, .

 

Peace

[Frazz]

Come on people. I’m sure you are all fully aware of the crap the media blatantly write about cannabis to support government policy rather than the reality of the situation. I think it might be a bit short sighted to start flashing around a few badly written media reports as if it must be gospel truth and overwhelming evidence that these chemicals are unfit for human consumption, just because it’s a drug you don’t like.

 

 

precisely why i based this thread on the words and opinions of the chemist who developed these synthetics and studied them over 20 yrs ..

but i thought i'd throw in just one sentence from the the media

 

[jabez]

precisely why i based this thread on the words and opinions of the chemist who developed these synthetics and studied them over 20 yrs ..

 

What opinions? To paraphrase Huffman, he just states how pissed he is for being blamed for its abuse and then advises people not to use it. Dude, seriously! Why ‘would’ he tell people to use it? His a professional chemist with a reputation to up hold and his sure as hell not the one making any money from people using it recreationally.

 

Albert Hoffman used to advise against the public using LSD as well. Yet he thought of LSD as one of the most beneficially significant chemicals known to man, he also actually used to dose himself with small doses of LSD everyday for his whole life. So I think its fair to say what professor John Huffman states about his chemicals in public is completely insignificant.

 

Peace

[iTiC]

I notice that the illegal drugs come from parts of the world that dont seem to be as affluent as the west. In the "Seed Hunter" docos I hear them say that the European community is paying for the destruction of the original landraised plants..

So poorer ppl get less $$ and the west can open up a synthetic market that can go on indefinelty.

Is it possible that opportunity for ppl to aquire the herb will be squeesed out because it isnt financially viable.

Ppl will want the herb but not be able to afford or find it anymore (supply and demand).

 

However, i hail from a part of sydney that used to boom with weed. Then meth came in and everyone that wanted to make $ sold ICE insted of weed, AND the demand was for ICE.

I remember being in the population that just didnt buy because I dont want meth. The lose of the die hard potheads didnt seam to fase the dealers.

AND THEN, things changed again weed came back not as strong coz there are ppl out there that need to keep the meth going but most are dead or have gone straight or switched back to pot.

 

So adding this new LEGAL synthetic market to the equation anything can happen. The Govt policy on drugs in not irradication, it is now a 'replacement policy'

Methodone for the smakies and 'Savitex' for the potheads.

(Ive been wanting to get this of my chest this thread seems to fit.)

[Frazz]

What opinions? To paraphrase Huffman, he just states how pissed he is for being blamed for its abuse and then advises people not to use it. Dude, seriously! Why ‘would’ he tell people to use it? His a professional chemist with a reputation to up hold and his sure as hell not the one making any money from people using it recreationally.

 

Albert Hoffman used to advise against the public using LSD as well. Yet he thought of LSD as one of the most beneficially significant chemicals known to man, he also actually used to dose himself with small doses of LSD everyday for his whole life. So I think its fair to say what professor John Huffman states about his chemicals in public is completely insignificant.

 

Peace

 

go for it man, i didnt realise you had such a hard-on for the gear

 

[jabez]

Well, these days I’d personally go without than waste my money on weed or JWH. Besides at the moment I’m still cruising with a few jars of skywalker from last year. But I digress.

 

It just actually makes me curious why it would be such an issue for you if I did have a so-called “hard-on for the gearâ€. I mean how is your attitude towards these synthetic cannabinoids any different from a right wing, alcohol drinking christian who claims cannabis is evil, but there drug of choice is just fine?

 

Peace