Growers Beware

[love4sensi]

While hunting through the net the other nite I came across an Abstract from the Australian Journal of Plant Physiology.

 

Cannabis sativa were assessed for their usefulness to trace seized Cannabis leaves to the country of origin and to source crops by determing how isotopes signatures relate to plant growth conditions.

 

The CSIRO wanted $18.00 for the full text. No way was I going to pay them so I contacted one of the authors and kindly ask for a copy, which she sent without haste. I refuse to go into detail on this but will send a copy to Ozstoners. One part really opened my eyes and I quote.

 

Based on the findings of this study we believe that there is strong potential for stable carbon and nitrogen isotope analysis of Cannabis to provide valuable information and corroborative evidence in police investigation. Such information can indicate whether a crop has been tended (watering and fertilizer application), grown indoors or outdoors and determine the relationships between seized material and suspected source crop site. :angry:

 

Ozstoners should have a copy of the full report by next tuesday as I will express post it 2morrow. I have also arranged for a meeting with one of the author next week to find out more, upon which I will let you's know.

[Guest Babybear]

Good work man im kean to find out more of yout info about this

[Luke Skywalker]

Thanks from me too, I'll be keen to see this report. I was aware that there was genetic fingerprint work going on in the States, but nothing like this...

 

Wow... Thanks man.

[pipeman]

excuse me if I'm missing something but I really can't see the significance in this. With cloning as a widespread propogation technique I hardly think this will be effective in proving which stash came from which crop. Plus, whats the relevance to personal growers?

[Luke Skywalker]

Not much, unless they use the molecular analysis and genetic fingerprinting, along with other evidence to knock out the clone supplier to the personal grower....

 

This is serious man, they can now tell who grew what pot and where they originally got the genetics from. It's dangerous technology, in the hands of dangerous people. I'm not pretending to know everything about it, but I do know this is a serious development for breeders, clone sellers and even personal growers, yes.... I'll wait to hear more before I shoot my mouth off tho.

 

Just as a side note, love4sensi, where exactly are you planning to send this report? Just to the Ozstoners mailing address? Just wondering.

[pipeman]

they can trace genetics, this does not trace suppliers.

 

they need to bust BOTH sources before being able to test for genetic traits anyway. So you need to be already busted to even be slightly concerned about this technology. Its not something that can be used to bust you. And even if it is relevant, all you'd have to do is demonstrate that cloning is a widespread method to spread genetics and two people having same genetics proves nothing.

 

And in terms of busting clone suppliers/seedbanks its a non issue. Even if they bust any customers, the only information they can get about the supplier would be their PO Box address. And any police authority can get this anyway by placing an order themselves. So again, the seedbank would have to have its operation already busted, in which case its all over anyway.

 

I think this is nothing more than scare mongering by the DEA and really means nothing for small time growers & seedbanks.

[white_cluster]

its for after you've been busted.

 

like a clone supplier gets busted cos of some fuck-wit dog telling the cops they got clones off him and taking them in, then the guy who sent them can admit to growing marijuana but there is no proof he sent clones anywhere, unless they check the genetics of the cuts of the dog.

 

Also the cops could stockpile busted cannabis, and wait to catch the grower and then do them with a shitload of pot.

 

 

Based on the findings of this study we believe that there is strong potential for stable carbon and nitrogen isotope analysis of Cannabis to provide valuable information and corroborative evidence in police investigation. Such information can indicate whether a crop has been tended (watering and fertilizer application), grown indoors or outdoors and determine the relationships between seized material and suspected source crop site.

 

chronic smokers could tell them most of that by smoking the shit, but they've probably invested millions on this stupid machine.

[Guest weekprik]

Im with you on this Pipeman,

How BS is that, im sure they couldnt tell weather you clones came from spc or canada,

 

SO who gets the blame then, the person who sold the clones to the busted person, or are they like really clever and can tell that yes, person A imported the seed, Person B grew the plant, and person C sold the clones,

 

Maybe some people have been watching a bit too much star trek eh?

[Luke Skywalker]

Based on the findings of this study we believe that there is strong potential for stable carbon and nitrogen isotope analysis of Cannabis to provide valuable information and corroborative evidence in police investigation. Such information can indicate whether a crop has been tended (watering and fertilizer application), grown indoors or outdoors and determine the relationships between seized material and suspected source crop site. 

 

chronic smokers could tell them most of that by smoking the shit, but they've probably invested millions on this stupid machine.

 

WC.... Well, maybe some of it, I doubt whether you'd be able to tell what it's carbon isotopic signature was tho just by puffing on a billy... ::

 

I do agree with you in some respects pipe, it is scaremongering. But the technology to determine the relationships between plants genetically as well as through more complex molecular isotopic ratio analysis can tell you a crapload about a plant... And while you are right, it's only applicable if they bust both grower and clone supplier... it could be used to raise charge levels from simple growing to conspiracy to grow or supply. Whether or not you were actually doing this is completely irrelevant, and we've seen this time and again in the courts. This makes it much easier for a judge to be convinced that the two people were involved in a "drug growing ring" and should be convicted of harsher crimes.

 

Yes, they can tell which clone came from which plant, specifically. Even though clones are genetically identical, there are subtle differences molecularly, as a direct result of the environment it lives in. If you can detect that these clones are identical in carbon and nitrogen isotopic ratios as the ones you've been busted with, then you've got a conspiracy. It's far more accurate than simple genetics... like you said. The same genes mean nothing. The same growspace in early life means everything.

 

Yes, they have to bust, and test both plants. But that's the thing, even though it's early days and they're not spread worldwide yet, that's only a matter of time. Unless we know as much as we can about it to defeat it.

 

The "normal" security measures we go through when receiving clones and seed should be enough, but there's the rub, people still get busted. And through that, eventually they will be busted with this machine and this knowledge.

 

WP, I don't watch Star Trek, it's crappy. Anyway, you are right, they can't determine who's imported the seed, (unless they bred it themselves and distributed it, and it was also subjected to the same analysis should they be busted of course) or who specifically sent the clone... but they can point to the people, after they've been busted, perhaps even on a bullshit charge and search, and say that, "hey, you sold him the clone which grew this plant, you're a drug syndicate."

 

I know that might sound a little conspiracy theorist, but we've seen time and again that the WAR on drugs is one the enemy is more than willing to prosecute with prejudice. "They" will try every and any way they can to maintain the status quo... this will simply be another tool in the arsenal of prohibition... making life harder for us all. I don't want to sound like a downer, I think it's entirely possible and inevitable that prohibition will be repealed, but we cannot fight the enemy by pretending it doesn't exist. A lot of what the DEA and other similar agencies put out is indeed propaganda and bullshit, but they're quite serious sometimes. (I don't know how, but they are... )

 

"Arm yourself with knowledge, and ye shall defeat any enemy"

[sols]

g'day; fact....they are not "clones"...if this was site for rose growers they be called "cuttings". they are not true 'clones'. yes all supposed clones are exactly identical genetically because they were cut from same plant.

the only ppl who may need to be concerned by this testing and record keeping, is growers who grow for profit .